MISCELLANEOUS Message Board
Wed, 31 May 2006 23:02:37
______________________________________________________________________________
| ============================================================================
|
| 1) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 7:40:24 am 
|
| gregy>
| new board
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 2) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 7:46:31 am 
|
| gregy>
| Last 11 messages:
|
| | ==========================================================================
| |
| | 516) Fri, Mar 31, 2006 - 1:58:19 pm 
| |
| | Jake>
| | They've also got interesting stuff on surviving nukes and
| | home-schooling.
| |
| | ==========================================================================
| |
| |  517) Fri, Mar 31, 2006 - 1:58:44 pm 
| |
| | Jake>
| | I don't mean to imply that home-schooling is as much of a disruption
| | as a
| | nuclear strike <G>
| |
| | ==========================================================================
| |
| |  518) Fri, Mar 31, 2006 - 2:01:41 pm 
| |
| | Jake>
| | Not that I have experience of either...
| |
| |
| | ==========================================================================
| |
| |  519) Fri, Mar 31, 2006 - 2:04:39 pm 
| |
| | glennmcc>
| | My sister 'home schooled' her daughter for 2 years..... after which I
| | have a feeling that she wished she had undergone a nuke stike instead.
| |
| | <gggg>
| |
| | ==========================================================================
| |
| | 520) Fri, Mar 31, 2006 - 5:38:37 pm 
Š| |
| | ray>
| | URL in 515 most informative. I would trust the source a bit more if
| | it had delt with the changes in the arctic.
| |
| |
| | ==========================================================================
| |
| | 521) Fri, Mar 31, 2006 - 5:50:27 pm 
| | URL
| |
| | glennmcc>
| | Arctic info, you say ?
| |
| | No problem. <ggg>
| |
| | http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/np2003/gallery_np_weatherdata.html#weather
| | #weather 
| |
| |
| |
| | ==========================================================================
| |
| | 522) Fri, Mar 31, 2006 - 5:53:47 pm 
| | URL
| |
| | glennmcc>
| | And some more.
| |
| | http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/detect/climate-temps.shtml
| |
| |
| | ==========================================================================
| |
| | 523) Fri, Mar 31, 2006 - 6:14:47 pm 
| |
| | glennmcc>
| | Reading through the various articles we see that some researchers
| | claim
| | that humans are cusing the various changes... while other researchers
| | claim that we are not.
| |
| | There still remains that one unavoidable and undeniable 'true
| | statement'.
| |
| | "We don't know."
| |
| | ==========================================================================
| |
| | 524) Fri, Mar 31, 2006 - 7:33:42 pm 
| |
| | ray>
| | I found the CO2 exchange data in that URL above very useful --
| | if infact the rate of CO2 outgassing from the oceans is potentialy
| | as large as it is, then even the huge amounts we produce are
Š| | not the biggest vector by a long shot. However, therein lies the
| | danger of the 'runaway' -- hot water tends to outgas CO2 and if that
| | CO2 then triggers more warming, we could be in trouble. It is 
| | a potential possitive feedback system, thus caution, and further 
| | research are in order. However, I consider my personal 
| | 'GW panic status' to have been reduced from say burnt orange down
| | to mustard yellow, thanks!
| |
| |  
| |
| |
| |
| | ==========================================================================
| |
| | 525) Fri, Mar 31, 2006 - 7:45:46 pm 
| |
| | glennmcc>
| | And mine has gone from 'cool blue' to 'cautious blue-green'.
| |
| | Thanks !
| |
| | <gggg>
| |
| | ==========================================================================
| |
| | 526) Fri, Mar 31, 2006 - 7:53:09 pm 
| |
| | glennmcc>
| | Ya know what ?
| |
| | All of this wishy-washy, uncertain, vague prediction,
| | it-might-be-this, it-might-be-that stuff reminds me of a TV
| | commercial a
| | few years ago for Cheerios.
| |
| | It was aired quite often shortly after all of those 'studies' which
| | touted the health benefits of 'high fiber'.
| |
| | It went like this.....
| |
| | "Some studies suggest that eating a low-fat, high-fiber diet
| | may reduce your risk of developing some kinds of cancer."
| |
| | Now I ask you....
| |
| | Could that statement be any more vague and any more non-committal ???
| |
| | <gggg>
| |
| | ==========================================================================
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 3) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 8:21:51 am 
|
Š| ray>
| -some
| -suggest
| -may
| -reduce
|
|
| Nope, couldn't be much less committed than making a sentance with
| four nested levels of wish-wash.
|
| Make that five levels -- 'study' is also a degree of removal from
| real world fact.
|
| Hmmmm what the world needs is 'the most noncommittal statement of the
| year' awards, the above could be considered a golden oldie.
|
| BTW, food is one area where I'm already as cynical as Gregy -- I don't
| listen to one word 'nutrition experts' have to say because I've 
| already lived long enough to hear them flip-flop on just about any
| point you can name.
|
| fibre: irrelevant-good-essential-irrelevant
| salt:  good-irrelevant-BAD!-irrelevant-good.
| fat:   good-BAD!-some bad, some good-bad ones ok with red wine-
|        oppps, bad ones still bad with red wine-good ones not good after
|        all-GOOD!
| starch: (polar inverse of 'fat' above at any given time)
| vit.C : huh?-good-VERY good-good-don't worry about it.
| etc.
| etc.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 4) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 9:20:13 am 
|
| gregy>
| Ray...well, the one that really tickled my funny bone, was the flippity
| they recently did on eggs....<g g g g g>
| ...
| Of course...I've always know that food fried in grease (not "fat" food
| ..just the grease-fried stuff) will usually make my stomach hot (i.e.
| having to work extra hard to digest)....and...of course, "THEY" say,
| "Take a Rolaid"....he he he...which is the eggs-ACK-ted opposite of
| what NEEDS to be done.....the "hot" is because you don't have enough
| stomach acid to smoothly, effortlessly digest the "grease-fried" stuff
| ....so...they tell you to lower the acid even more.....<g g g>
| ...
| However....I don't listen to "them"......<g g g g>
| ...
| I try to get usual vitamins/minerals....the closest to natural as I can
| get.....and try to balance my diet....but...but...I'm NOT my mother..
| ...and I can't feed myself really properly...so...I just make sure that
| I DO get my fiber (just to keep things moving....)...I think that does
Š| more good than most other things......and....I do take some extra E and
| C and Calcium+D, and CoQ10, and Omega-3s.....and...he he he...someday
| I'm gonna die.....<g g g g>
| ...
| Unfortunately...I know of NO one who's actually "lived longer"...<g g g>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 5) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 9:22:45 am 
|
| gregy>
| ...and, if I did...I prolly wouldn't ask him what his "secret" was...
| 'cause I doan wanna know.....I'm gonna get out of here JUST as soon as
| the Good Lord wants me to....and I don't intend to stay ONE second
| longer...<g g g g g g>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 6) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 9:27:20 am 
|
| gregy>
| Glenn...Ray..et al....we had 526messages on here....Technical Question
| ...I had problems with Arachne doing a complete download of "all
| messages"....I mean....it would break off somewhere before the download
| finished.....I have experienced problems here, before, and I want to
| know if anyone else has every had problems downloading about above 256
| messages....???
| ...
| FWIW...I finally went over to my other (486dlc 40MHz) box and used my
| Win3.1/NN4.08 to grab it down, whereupon I could save it and then let
| Arachne look at it and "P"convert-to-text for the Archive...
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 7) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 9:28:20 am 
|
| gregy>
| Oh, the "download breaks" problem happened with KeepAlive both YES and
| NO....
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 8) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 11:01:58 am 
|
| ray>
| Gregy,
|
| dunno, never tried it. Once we build up over that number I'll try
| again and let you know.
|
Š|
| ============================================================================
|
| 9) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 11:40:16 am 
|
| gregy>
| Please....I'll give a shout when I think it's "ripe".....<g g g>
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 10) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 2:36:40 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| For those partial downloads....
|
| 1) Ctrl+Enter
| or
| 2) EnterBGDL Yes
|
|
| I have it fixed now in my current compile by increasing
| the retry limit in the 'Q&D fix of the RDLC bug' to 96000
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 11) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 2:51:15 pm 
|
| ray>
|
| It looks like I'm rid of that, I've had the fix commented out for
| a while now and all's well. Glenn, that fix has to be trouble,
| it obviously is just a delay generator and it might work different
| on different machines. I'd look at putting a 'delay(xxxx)' in there.
| or, better, find the first build with the problem and root it
| out properly, you can't bee fooling with that number for ever.
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 12) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 3:31:06 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| No... it is not a delay generator.
|
| What it does is to count how many times Arachne has unsuccessfully
| retried to get data from the server.
|
| When that count reaches 32000 (in all compiles but my current one),
| she 'breaks the cycle'.
|
| In my current compile... the cycle does not get broken till 96000.
|
| The RDLC bug is intermittent and ONLY occurs on pages where we _do not_
| know the size of the page. (like here)
Š|
| I'll do some experimenting and be back in a few min. with a step-by-step
| procedure for forcing it to happen in your compile now that you have the
| fix commented-out.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 13) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 3:34:04 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| As for the first build with the problem....
|
| It started with Michael's release of v1.69
| (was still there in all 3 releases of v1.70)
|
| It ended with my release of v1.71;UE01
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 14) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 3:41:02 pm 
| URL
|
| glennmcc>
| A message from back when it was 24000 instead of 32000
|
| http://www.mail-archive.com/arachne@arachne.cz/msg20545.html
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 15) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 3:59:00 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Here are couple of URLs we used for testing 4 years ago.
|
| ------------------------------
|
| Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:23:12 -0500
| From: "Glenn McCorkle" <glennmcc@cisnet.com>
| Subject: Re: Runaway url
|
| On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:01:54 -0500, Sam Ewalt wrote:
|
| > Glenn,
|
| > You could try this one:
|
| > http://www.greatlakessurplus.com/working/index.asp
|
| > Sometimes it runs, sometimes it doesn't. I don't see much
| > consistency with runaways.
|
| > This ran the first time I went there. The site doesn't behave well.
|
| > I'll send you more as I get them.
Š|
| Could you perhaps mean this one instead???
| http://www.greatlakesarmysurplus.com/working/index.asp
|
| If that's it, you have the honor of submitting the
| very first URL to crash v1.71;alpha :(((
|
| It took 6 reload/aborts to do it but it crashed.
|
| I will CC this one to the list so that everyone will know that
| my "quick-n-dirty fix" is not yet ready for prime time use.
| (hence my version number of 1.71;alpha) :((
|
| __________
|
| Now to all list members.
|
| You have my personal promise that I will continue to work on
| this until I find a "permanent fix".
|
| - -- 
|  Glenn
|  http://arachne.cz/
|  http://freedos-32.sourceforge.net/
|  http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/
|  http://www.angelfire.com/id/glenndoom/download.htm
|
| ------------------------------
|
| Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:10:52 -0400
| From: "Clarence Verge" <caverge@prime-online.com>
| Subject: Re: Runaway url
|
| On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:23:12 -0500, Glenn McCorkle wrote:
|
| > Could you perhaps mean this one instead???
| > http://www.greatlakesarmysurplus.com/working/index.asp
|
| > If that's it, you have the honor of submitting the
| > very first URL to crash v1.71;alpha :(((
|
| > It took 6 reload/aborts to do it but it crashed.
|
| I couldn't do it here in 10 tries (ESC at various points) , and there
| was no problem on several completed downloads. <g>
|
| I just tried it another 10 times before sending. I'm still on the
| original boot. ;-)
|
| It's not as badass you think. <G>
|
| - -  Clarence Verge.
| - -- Using Arachne 1.66 on DSL.
|
| ------------------------------
Š|
| Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:05:55 -0500
| From: "Glenn McCorkle" <glennmcc@cisnet.com>
| Subject: Re: Runaway url
|
| On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:58:06 -0800, Clarence Verge wrote:
|
| > On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:23:12 -0500, Glenn McCorkle wrote:
|
| >> Could you perhaps mean this one instead???
| >> http://www.greatlakesarmysurplus.com/working/index.asp
|
| >> If that's it, you have the honor of submitting the
| >> very first URL to crash v1.71;alpha :(((
|
| >> It took 6 reload/aborts to do it but it crashed.
|
| > I couldn't do it here in 10 tries (ESC at various points) , and there
| > was no problem on several completed downloads. <g>
|
| > I just tried it another 10 times before sending. I'm still on the
| > original boot. ;-)
|
| > It's not as badass you think. <G>
|
| OK, I just tried again.
|
| 50 reload/aborts...... no crash. (this was with an empty cache)
|
| I then hit "Q" on a page full of links and placed 21 items into the cache.
|
| 50 more reload/aborts..... no crash.
|
| Hit "Q" on http://www.greatlakesarmysurplus.com/working/index.asp
| (now 52 items in cache)
|
| 50 more reload/aborts...... still no crash. :)
|
| Maybe it *IS* ready for prime time after-all. :)))
|
| But, before we can say that... I need some more sites to try it on.
|
| So please, keep those URLs coming.
|
| Also, please send URLs where it happens "spontaneously".
| (all by itself without hitting the abort button or the ESC key)
|
| Here's an example of a "spontaneous RDL" site.
|
| http://my.netzero.net/s/sp?r=logout
| (spontaneous runaway and crash of v1.70;r.3)
|
| This site is no problem in v1.71;alpha
| (the quick-n-dirty fix stops the crash)
|
Š| ____
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 16) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:05:37 pm 
| URL
|
| glennmcc>
| This one does it....
|
| http://my.netzero.net/s/sp?r=logout
|
| Be sure that you have 'ESC Ignore'
|
| Left-click that link and allow about 5kb
| to download before hitting the ESC key.
|
| There goes the Runaway DownLoad Counter
|
| It keeps on going and going untill she finally crashes.
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 17) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:07:02 pm 
|
| gregy>
| Glenn...hmmm...now WHY???? didn't I remember that "background d/l"
| myself...???....<gg g g>
| ..
| Next time I get bogged down in here trying to download "all messages"
| so's I can archive....I'll try that....see if it fixes the problem..
| ...I suspect that it will....
| ...I DO know that the CTRL-ENTER works flawlessly for the purpose we
| intended it....so...maybe we've killed two birds with that one stone
| ....<g g g g>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 18) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:07:31 pm 
|
| ray>
| But it is a delay generator. The only change going from x thousand
| cycles to y thousand cycles is that it is forced to try for
| a longer time before giving up. You could put a delay in there 
| and then cycle, say 10 times and then quit and it would be more
| robust. Try 'delay(100)' and ten cycles, that amounts to one second
| with 10 tries. Code like what you've got is good to identify a
| troublesome loop, but it's a ducttape fix.
|
Š| So v 1.67 was clean? If you want I'll send you my industrial 
| strength code comparators ... s*** that won't work, they need
| 4DOS. Hmmm, if you can find a copy of 1.67 and 1.69 and send them both
| to tripod I'll find the problem.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 19) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:08:09 pm 
|
| gregy>
| No...I'm not gonna go there...I've already had one of those, and I don't
| feel like rebooting, right now....<g g g g>
| ..
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 20) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:08:09 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| As I said... it's intermittent.
|
| Sometimes it Runsaway... sometimes not.
|
| But with the fix in-place .... she _never_ runsaway.
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 21) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:13:54 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Ray.... no it is not a delay genator.
|
| It is a loiop stopper.
|
| That is the section of code that keeps getting looped through
| when the RDLC bug rears its ugly head.
|
| All my code does is count how many times the loop has been executed and
| breaks out of the loop after 96000 times through without getting any new
| data from the server.
|
| If at any time some new data arives from the server....
| the counter gets reset to zero awwaiting the next occurrence of
| 'looping without getting any new data'.
|
| Each time some new data arrives... the counter reset to zero.
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
Š| 22) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:24:26 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Here's the bug in action a few min ago with v1.70,r3
| http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/images/rdlc_170.gif
|
| And here it is just now in my fresh compile of 1.91 with the fix commented-o
| http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/images/rdlc_170.gif
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 23) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:27:42 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Have a look at the download counter in each screen-cap.
|
| Had I not hit the PrintScreen key to do screen-cap it would have
| continued going until an Xswap crash occurred.
|
|
| That page used to cause a spontanious RDLC but it now requires the
| hitting of the ESC key or the 'X' abort download.
|
|
| And it is intermittent...
| had to try 15 times with v1.70 and 25 times with v1.91
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 24) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:32:49 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| There we go.... 21 tries with v1.91 to get it happen and allowed it
| to keep going on through to the crash.
|
| Illegal Xswap at line 573 of htmlstat.c
|
| But that is not consistant either.
|
| The actual Xswap crash will be at different places in different files
| from one time to the next.
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 25) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:34:31 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Only had to try twice this time..... same place... line 573 in htmlstat.c
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 26) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:39:49 pm 
Š|
| glennmcc>
| Back now after a 'cold reboot'.
|
| This timne it took 7 tries but it did not cause an Xswap crash.
|
| Instead... I was 100% locked-up at 1850000 showing on the d/l counter.
|
| Even the keyboard was 100% lockedout the numlock key did mnot turn-off
| its light, the Capslock key would not turn-on its light and Ctrl+Alt+Del
| woukld not reboot.
|
| Had to press the reset button on the CPU
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 27) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 4:43:51 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Here now with v1.91 with the fix in-place.
|
| 10 times now I have 'activated the bug' and the counter began to runaway.
|
| All 10 times the fix stopped the runaway and displayed the page normally.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 28) Sat, Apr 01, 2006 - 6:35:30 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| ar189 7151 (since Nov 27, 2005)
|
| 7151 / 125 = 57.2 per day
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 29) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 1:39:09 pm 
|
| ray>
| No point in arguing. But this isn't an either/or question: it is
| a loop breaker of course, but it works by creating a delay before
| giving up on further input. Never mind, my code works fine without
| it.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 30) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 2:04:29 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Don't get wrong... I'm not argueing.
|
| Just as usual... not explaining myself properly. <ggg>
|
Š| The code does not create anything.
|
| All it does is keep count of how many times that section of the code has
| been passed without getting any new data from the server.
|
| That's it ... nothing more.
|
| That's why it does not come into play when we do a BGdownload.
|
| During a BGdownload.... html.c does not get executed till the download
| is complete and we click on the link again to load the page from our
| cache.
|
| The only time that code gets executed is during a 'normal download'
| of an HTML file where arachne renders the html during the download.
|
| In addition...
| the code does not get executed if we know the size of the file.
|
|
| Now..... have I made myself as clear as mud this time ??? <gggg>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 31) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 6:04:50 pm 
|
| ray>
| This background download stuff remains a black box to me -- no
| idea how it works. I'm still pretty much afraid to enter the 
| haunted forest of html.c except for very simple stuff. And as I said,
| I have no clue how I 'fixed' that code so your fix isn't needed
| anymore.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 32) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 6:05:50 pm 
|
| ray>
| Hey when is Joe uploading his sources? Time to start poaching ;-)
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 33) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 6:30:03 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Sorry to break the bad news to ya.....
|
| A fresh compile of your B6a core.exe with the RDLC fix commented-out
| ranaway and locked-up-tight-as-drum.
|
| http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/b6ardlc1.gif
| http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/b6ardlc2.gif
Š|
| Could you please email me a copy of your current core.exe along with
| arachne.bat and keywords.cfg ?
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 34) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 6:51:14 pm 
|
| ray>
| What URL? Let me see if I can confirm it here first. Those
| photos, what am I supposed to see there?
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 35) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 6:54:27 pm 
| URL
|
| glennmcc>
| http://my.netzero.net/s/sp?r=logout
|
| #1 is the full screen locked-up-tight
| #2 is the D/L counter locked at 2.95 meg on a 41kb page.
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 36) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 6:57:17 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| To force the RDLC ...
|
| Repeated hit 'R' and then left click the 'X' abort transfer button
| at about 25kb to 30kb
|
| As you can just barely see in photo #1 ... there's your green mouse
| cursor on the 'X' button. ;-)
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 37) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 7:01:48 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| You have to keep trying over and over again to force the bug out of hiding.
|
| It took me an average of 20 tries each time to get it happen...
| (sometimes 35 or 40), but it did rear its ugly little head.
|
| That was the only time I was able to get some photos.
|
| The other 3 times I forced it.... 'Hard crash' with a spontanious cold
| reboot of the system.
|
| No error messages... no nothing at-all... just BAM !!! ...
Š| my machine rebooted itself. :((
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 38) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 7:58:20 pm 
|
| ray>
| Right you are, I can make it happen, but it takes some pretty 
| nasty abuse, I've gotta hit R repetedly then ESC or "X". I get
| a MALLOCERR. But it's strange, the first press of ESC doens't
| stop the transfer totaly, just sorta slows it down to a crawl, and
| the mouse becomes jumpy -- clearly the code is wandering into
| some loop that's taking far too long (not mutch news there eh? ;-)
| A double click or ESC seems to actualy abort the transfer properly
| tho. 
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 39) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 8:01:14 pm 
|
| ray>
| However, given the keyboard abuse thats needed for this to happen,
| I wonder if this should even be considered a bug at all. Sheesh you
| can make any program crash with this sort of thing. I figure unless
| this happens during normal use I'm not inclined to worry about it.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 40) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 8:08:18 pm 
|
| ray>
| Son of a gun, I just realized Arachne allows key stacking! I just
| took it for granted that that would be verboten, it *should* be
| verboten. Nuts' if repeated 'R's are stacked, it's hardly surprising
| that she never gets to sort herself out. My 'Used XMS' number is
| buggered, that means that some memory is alocated but not released
| due to the repeated 'R's.  
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 41) Sun, Apr 02, 2006 - 10:15:45 pm 
|
| Eric>
| glennmcc,    This CTRL-ENTER stuff works if used on a link in a page...
| but...it doesn't work in the address is entered in the URL box. <ggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 42) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 2:34:16 am 
|
| gregy>
| Eric...yes...not on an "...address is entered in the URL box. <ggg>"
| ....
Š| (sheeeh...that's how me'n Glenn keep it secret)...I mean...it'd be
| widely known, if it worked in too many places.....<g g g>
| ..
| We keep it sooooo secret....that even I forgot about it day-before
| yesterday, when I was trying to d/l lotsa "all messages".....<g g g g>
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 43) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 7:06:04 am 
|
| Eric>
| Re: CTRL-ENTER download
| Gregy,   Well, because it only works from the links, I thought it was
| broken since I had tried it several times with no success. After all,
| at least half the time what I want to load I enter in the URL box.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 44) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 8:13:38 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| hmmmmmm....
|
| http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/04/cooler_heads_needed_on_war
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 45) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 9:01:28 am 
|
| gregy>
| More..hmmmmmmm
|
| http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=SXCBJ4ZQ2WIPVQFIQMG
| http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1065-2113244,00.html
| http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article355170.ece
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 46) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 9:12:19 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
|
| http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 47) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 9:12:52 am 
Š| URL
|
| gregy>
|
| http://sandbox.blog-city.com/powerful_lobby.htm
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 48) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 10:01:16 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| hmmmmm....hmmmmmm
|
| http://www.sas.org/tcs/weeklyIssues_2006/2006-04-07/feature1p/index.html
| http://www.sas.org/tcs/weeklyIssues_2006/2006-04-07/editorial-p/index.html
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 49) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 10:11:10 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| 'nother ..hhmmmmmmms....
|
| http://www.washtimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20060402-112828-5298r
| http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V6R-4JJGCC0-2&_co
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 50) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 10:16:54 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| whole bunch of hhhmmmmmmmsssss.....
|
| http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110008180
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 51) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 4:24:30 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Ray,
|
| re:"... unless this happens during normal use...."
|
| That's the problem with that bug.
Š|
| It _does_ happen during normal use.
|
| As noted in that old message from the original Arachne mailing list.
|
| That particular link at NetZero had at that time been causing the RDLC
| 'spontaniously' without ever touching a key of clicking a button.
|
| The particlar cercumstances on that particular page have changed other
| the years and it no longer happens spontaniously at that link.
|
| But there are still many pages out there where it _does_ happen
| either spontaniously or upon the fist hit of ESC or click of 'X'
|
| The simple truth is that since putting that 'Quick-N-Dirty Fix' in there....
| (v1.71;UE01 on up to and including v1.89;GPL)
| There has not been so-much-as a single bug report made on RDLC.
|
| Your compile (and my test compile(s) with it commented-out),
| are the only ones to exhibit "The return of the RDLC bug".
|
| IMO,
| For that reason... the fix must stay in there until such time as we find
| the actual cause/cure.
|
| Agreed ???
|
| <gggg>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 52) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 4:33:01 pm 
|
| ray>
| Glenn,
|
| I'll leave it commented out till I find a 'real world' example, mostly
| because I want to find one so's I can do replicable tests on
| it when I find it.  If I do find one, I'll do a function call trace
| on it and find the root cause. The nice thing about not having the
| burden of the standard core on my shoulders is I don't have to
| be careful :-)
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 53) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 4:35:07 pm 
|
| ray>
| But I hear you -- we both understand da Silva's law: A bug that
| just 'seems to have gone away' isn't dead, just sleeping ...
|
|
|
Š| ============================================================================
|
| 54) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 4:35:55 pm 
|
| ray>
| Come to think of it, I have a foolproof way of tempting the Gods ...
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 55) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 6:01:15 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Be very careful when 'tempting the Gods'.
|
| They most often get tempted right into biting you in the ass.
|
| <gggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 56) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 8:25:35 pm 
|
| ray>
| Yes, that's the idea. I want them to hit me with their best
| shot with this RDLC thing. I'd rather have the bug than not know
| if it's dead or just sleeping. Trouble I can handle, uncertainlty
| is much harder. Come to think of it Glenn, I don't *need* the Gods --
| if there is a page that my code can't handle vis. RDCL I'm sure
| you will find it faster than any mere deities.
|
| BTW, since you have my code, have you tried my FUNCTRAC stuff?
| It's very far from friendly but it sure works for tracking hangs
| and stuck loops. If you want I'll get you up to speed using it.
| You can also track a variable or anything else you want.
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 57) Mon, Apr 03, 2006 - 8:27:37 pm 
|
| ray>
| Oh, I'm not saying that your better than the Gods, just more
| BLOODY MINDED < G G G G G G > 
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 58) Tue, Apr 04, 2006 - 4:14:13 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
Š| Well, sir....
|
| If you're really that much of a glutton for punishment.
|
| I'll find ya such a page.
|
| <ggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 59) Tue, Apr 04, 2006 - 5:45:03 pm 
|
| ray>
| No punishment, if it's there it's there, better to find it sooner 
| rather than latter, besides, your fix can be restored at a moments
| notice so it's no biggy.
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 60) Tue, Apr 04, 2006 - 7:14:58 pm 
|
| ray>
| Just loading that 'mynetzero' page and got a 'premature end of JPEG'
| msg. First time, but could that have anything to do with that
| page being troublesome?
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 61) Tue, Apr 04, 2006 - 7:35:25 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Nope.... not connected.
|
| The RDLC bug is associated with only HTML pages themselves, not with any
| images that might be embedded within the page.
|
| It only manifests itself when rendering the page during the download.
|
| That's why it never happens when we do a BG download of an HTML page.
| (the rendering does not happen till the download is complete)
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 62) Tue, Apr 04, 2006 - 9:01:59 pm 
|
| ray>
| Whatever, as I said, I haven't the slightest idea how all that
| stuff works yet.
Š|
| BTW, been fooling around with popget. Bastiaan gets those hanging
| mails often enough that I've got something to chew on. Now 
| riddle me this: why is it that most of the time 'locallength' 
| ends up being negative by the time the message ends? It seems 
| that almost all messages are infact longer than they are supposed
| to be. Surely to god the server knows how long they are. 
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 63) Wed, Apr 05, 2006 - 7:27:26 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| big, looonnnnngggg ...hmmmmmmmmm
|
| http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=13714
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 64) Wed, Apr 05, 2006 - 7:16:40 pm 
|
| ray>
| That URL hangs here with all cores :( Is this one of those  
| blasted keyword things?
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 65) Wed, Apr 05, 2006 - 7:42:06 pm 
|
| ray>
| Gregy,
|
| .exe uploaded to tripod, do you need the pw?
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 66) Wed, Apr 05, 2006 - 8:09:45 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| define 'hangs' ;-)
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 67) Wed, Apr 05, 2006 - 8:25:39 pm 
| URL
|
| glennmcc>
Š| BTW,
|
| No PW needed for downloading stuff from tripod.....
|
| http://rayandrews0.tripod.com/build6o.zip
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 68) Wed, Apr 05, 2006 - 8:27:55 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| But you _do_ need to turn-off httpreferer on opt_pers.ah
|
| _ Send information called "Referer" during each HTTP session.
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 69) Wed, Apr 05, 2006 - 11:43:07 pm 
|
| Eric>
| Ray,  Why does http://rayandrews0.tripod.com/index.htm
| not show any files on your site?
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 70) Thu, Apr 06, 2006 - 7:02:33 am 
|
| ray>
| Eric,
|
| I think it's because I haven't updated the index, if I understand this. 
| However, a FTP logon should show everything. Gotta love FTP,
| it's faster and the listing of files is automatic. I'd update the 
| http index if I knew how, but no spik HTML.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 71) Thu, Apr 06, 2006 - 2:09:10 pm 
|
| gregy>
| Ray...got it...
| ..
| Glenn...thanks for that "referrer" headsup.....he he...sure enough, I
| tried it "the other way" the first time.....he he he
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 72) Thu, Apr 06, 2006 - 3:25:57 pm 
|
| ray>
Š| Gregy,
|
| Ok, once we get it running, first order of buisiness is to confirm
| Vladimir's problem with Google on the other board, then, see if
| you can instance the RDLC bug. We can make it happen with repeted
| hits of "R" then ESC, but I mean in 'normal' use.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 73) Thu, Apr 06, 2006 - 3:26:46 pm 
|
| ray>
| And if he's not too busy, it would be great to have Eric's 
| feeback too ;-)
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 74) Thu, Apr 06, 2006 - 5:09:11 pm 
| URL
|
| glennmcc>
| Eric, Ray.....
|
| http://rayandrews0.tripod.com/
|
| Is that a little better ? <ggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 75) Thu, Apr 06, 2006 - 8:42:17 pm 
|
| ray>
| Merci beaucoup!
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 76) Thu, Apr 06, 2006 - 8:58:52 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| vous κtes bienvenu
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 77) Thu, Apr 06, 2006 - 10:33:27 pm 
| URL
|
| Reset00>
| A page that displays the Arachne Desktop icons - the large ones.
| Also a new Quickpad Doc page at
|
Š| http://telusplanet.net/public/bjlcasto/arapages.htm
|
| at Reset00.com
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 78) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 3:31:34 am 
|
| Eric>
| glennmcc,    Does #76 mean: "Glad to be of help"
| Re:  HTTPreferer  -  are you saying this has to be turned off for
| FTP to work?
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 79) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 3:34:48 am 
|
| Eric>
| glennmcc,    Oh yes,  thanks for the index. <ggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 80) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 4:55:26 am 
|
| gregy>
| Eric...no..HTTPreferer doesn't have to be turned off to work....except
| ...except for that tripod site of Ray's.....<g g g>
| ..
| ...and maybe for the other, odd site....but...normally, that setting is
| default Yes, and works fine for most sites...
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 81) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 5:09:36 am 
|
| gregy>
| Glenn....I'd really like to get that ArachneFTPupload working...I've
| struggled and tried all the things you laid out for me...but...I just
| cannot make it work....I'm sure I'm missing some small thing...<g g g>
| ...
| So, go first to the place where we were/are talking about dosCDRoast
| ..
| then...go second to the place where we were/are talking about atcpip
| ...
| Then come back here as tell me "I got them" and I'll give you "the rest
| of the story"......<g g g g>
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 82) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 9:26:00 am 
Š|
| glennmcc>
| Eric,
|
| re:"HTTPreferer  -  are you saying this has to be turned off for
| FTP to work?"
|
| I think you will be able to answer your own question if you look at the
| first 4 letters of the 1st line in your question compared to the first 3
| letters of the 2nd line in your question.
|
| <gggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 83) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 9:31:22 am 
|
| glennmcc>
| As to your 1st question....
|
| vous κtes bienvenu == You are welcome
|
| Which was in reply to Ray's...
|
| Merci beaucoup! == Thank you very much!
|
|
| And no, I don't speak French.
|
| Et non, je ne parle pas franηais.
|
| I cheated. <ggg>
|
| http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 84) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 9:34:50 am 
|
| glennmcc>
| Gregy,
|
| I got them. ;-)
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 85) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 11:21:28 am 
|
| gregy>
| :)))
| ...
| ftp://user:pass@ftp.arachne.virtualave.net/apub/
| ...
| just try it with a small file, labeled 11TEST.TXT
Š| ...
| ..what I need to know is that you CAN do it....I mean..that that site
| isn't anything STRANGE....<g g g>
| ...
| Thanks...
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 86) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 11:26:11 am 
|
| gregy>
| BTW...I'm getting these new drives loaded and setup....I'm here, now
| on this IExploder3.03 (yes, I know...don't say it...but I use these
| little things for comparison).....which was a BUGger to install and
| setup.....but...hey....that's kinda what you expect with mz$loth, isn't
| it...<g g g>
| ...
| next get the IE5 installed/setup (I know, I know....<g g g>...)...there
| is ONE, count it, ONE site where the IE5 is required...can't do it with
| the NN408...and, before this, I couldn't get the v.5 to install/run on
| my 486....but...on this box it should....
| ...and I MUST have it for just that one site....so....hey....life is
| cruel.....<g g g g>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 87) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 12:09:46 pm 
| URL
|
| glennmcc>
| Got it. :)
|
| http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/images/ftp_up.gif
|
| 1) pressed 'H' to view my hotlist
| 2) pressed F2
| 3) entered the info as seen in that screen cap
| 4) pressed the upload button
|
| You now have hotlistg.htm at the other place ;-)
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 88) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 12:13:37 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Just now downloaded it via FTP, edited it and re-uploaded it as hotliste.htm
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 89) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 12:14:55 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
Š| Done playing .... you can change your password now. <gggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 90) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 1:05:20 pm 
|
| gregy>
| he he...we were uploading at the same time....<g g g>....I had a big
| 65minute file to upload, and /apub/ was empty when I started...when I
| finished...voila...!!!...there were your two files.....thanks...I'll
| grab your .GIF....hopefully I can "follow the pitchers"....<g g g>
| ...
| BTW...I thought you worked on Fridays....and were off during the week
| ....???
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 91) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 1:06:53 pm 
|
| gregy>
| oh, the pass...you, me and Jake are the only folks who have the "keys to
| the house"....I suppose Hoody might remember it, too....but...it's not
| spread abroad....and we'll leave it with you....it might be useful again
| in the future....
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 92) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 1:08:11 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| oh, also....
|
| http://arachne.virtualave.net/apub/drives.zbm
|
| that's how my new drives are being set up....<g g g>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 93) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 1:34:38 pm 
|
| gregy>
| got it...!!!!!
| ...
| and I found out one thing I was doing wrong....
| ftp.arachne.virtualave.net/ is NOT correct....the "/" throws the WHOLE
| thing off...
| ...but...I successfully uploaded my own hotlist (it's empty, on this
| box, 'cause I haven't yet transferred stuff over)...but...it went up
| ...and it's there....<g g g g>
| ..
Š|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 94) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 1:43:11 pm 
|
| gregy>
| Now...however, Glenn....I've done it again, and it WORKS..!!!..<g g g>
| ..but (youknewthiswascoming)....
| ..I'm mystified as to why I always get "Login incorrect" back from the
| server when I....
| ftp://ftp.arachne.virtualave.net/
| ..
| With the proper Username/Passwords in my ARACHNE.CFG
| ...
| ??????
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 95) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 1:50:16 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| ftp://ftp.arachne.virtualave.net/ == anonymous login
|
| Same as...........
|
| ftp://anonymous:youremail@address.com@ftp.arachne.virtualave.net/
|
| In my case...
|
| ftp://anonymous:glennmcc@cisnet.com@ftp.arachne.virtualave.net/
|
| Sine AV does not permitt anonymous login == login incorrect error message
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  96) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 1:51:35 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| The FTP username/password saved in Arachne.cfg are only used for FTP uploads
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 97) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 1:54:03 pm 
| URL
|
| glennmcc>
| BTW,
|
| I'm on FireFox in Slackware Linux right now.
|
| Apache is running so my Home based sever is up. ;-)
|
Š| http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/myserver.htm
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  98) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 1:58:02 pm 
|
| gregy>
| But...I've been fighting things all night...and I've gotta get some
| sleep...so I'll fiddle with that tonight...
| ...
| Oh, BTW...Glenn...how did you generate that .GIF you posted....the best
| I can do is .ZBMs or .BMPs.....??????
| ..
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 99) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 2:00:14 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Used GWS (Graphics WorkShop), to convert the .BMP to .GIF
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  100) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 2:04:02 pm 
|
| gregy>
| okay...I see.....did you d/l that .ZBM....????
| ...
| I need to do some adjusting on my MIME or such....since when I tried to
| "Export as .jpg" it errored back at me....
| ..
| but...hey....I'm just fumbling around right now....I gotta get to bed.
| ...g'nite....errmmmmm....g'day....<g g g>
| ...
| And...thanks again for FINALLY blowing the smog out of my eyes on that
| Arachne FTPupload.....<g g g>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 101) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 2:08:11 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| I'll need to wait till I shut-down Linux and get back into DOS.
|
| Linux don't understand ZBM ;-)
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  102) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 2:09:02 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| To 'export as JPG' you'll need cjpeg.exe 
Š|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 103) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 2:19:12 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| --- just now uploaded .htaccess ---
|
| AddType image/x-zbitmap               zbm
| AddType application/x-arachne-package apm
| AddType image/bmp                     bmp
| AddType audio/x-vorbis                ogg
| AddType application/xml               rdf
| AddType application/xml               rss
| _________________________________________
|
| The other place now understands ZBM ... and more ;-)
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 104) Fri, Apr 07, 2006 - 9:36:36 pm 
| URL
|
| glennmcc>
| Anybody here like Luis Royo art ?
|
| http://www.luisroyo.com/orianbl.htm
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 105) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 2:11:00 am 
|
| gregy>
| hmmmmm....I guess I've sorta had that idea in the back of my mind...and
| I was gonna ask about it and deal with it...someday....<g g g g>...but
| ...you beat me even to my question......<g g g>
| ...
| Thanks...
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 106) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 2:26:57 am 
|
| gregy>
| Glenn...I'm here in my NN408/w31...and all the message posts appear in
| whitebg/blacktext......and that's the way it looks with Arachne, and
| the way I want it.....but (youknewthiswascoming)....that little IE303w31
| shows the last two message posts as whitebg/redtext.....
| ...
| Any idea why IE303 does that....???  I mean, other than that it's just
| what we'd expect of a mz$loth product.....<g g g g>
|
Š| ============================================================================
|
| 107) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 2:29:39 am 
|
| gregy>
| oops...my mistake....messages here, in Arachne have the reverse, which
| is blackbg/whitetext....and THAT's just the way I want it....all other
| browsers show default whitebg/blacktext...while Arachne is the reverse
| ....he he....
| ..that way I can "surf while groggy".....and still know instinctively
| whether I'm in my "home" environment....or in a "foreign" one...<g g g>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 108) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 4:04:46 am 
|
| Eric>
| glennmcc,   Re: #104,  That looks like one dangerous wowman.....
| I wonder....be she a friend of Robin Hood? <ggg>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  109) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 4:18:43 am 
|
| Eric>
| glennmcc,  On second observation of Cerrar Ventana,  maybe that is a
| holster on Cerrar's thigh.  It looked like a quiver at first.....or
| maybe that's what I felt <ggg> ... Perhaps she plays with Buck Rodgers?
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  110) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 4:25:42 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,   Re: message colors - perhaps those are just hotter
| messages?  Or an indication that you are at the bottom of the
| board.  <gggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
|   111) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 4:37:03 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,   On my other DOS computer which runs on a combination of
| Basic and Batch files and my editor....the colors often switch on me
| and I don't know why.  It is not programmed that way.  I often have to
| re-trace a page by switching windows to get back the proper colors.
| I think it's my editor which does it but I'm not sure.  I gets hard to
| read when colors don't contrast enough.   
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  112) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 6:00:12 am 
Š|
| gregy>
| Eric....<g g g>....."hotter messages"......<g g g>
| ..
| ..but...it doesn't do that in NetscapeNavigator 4.08/win31....and seems
| to ONLY do it in the IExpolder3.03/win31.....and, of course, not in
| Arachne....so....I'm mystified.....
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 113) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 6:40:22 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,     Have you seen BACKPACKER magazine for April 2006?....
| It has a big blurb on "America's #1 Park - Glacier"
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 114) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 6:44:21 am 
| URL
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,    Re:#113 - maps on backpacker.com/hikes
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 115) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 2:38:34 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| post 106....
|
| Tou answered your own Q with....
|
| "...other than that it's just what we'd expect of a mz$loth product....."
|
| <ggg>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 116) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 2:47:59 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| As to the colors here in Arachne....
|
| <body arachne>
|
| This causes all Arachne visitors to these boards to see it in the
| same color scheme they have setup for their Arachne desktop colors.
|
| Since you are seeing white text on black background...
| these are your settings over on 'Options/Prefs. & Perf.'
|
| Desktop colors
Š| Text _ Black X White _ Green _ Wood 
| Bg.  X Black _ White _ Gray  _ Sand 
| Link X Blue  _ Lime  _ Red   _ Yellow 
|
| Desktop background image
| _ filename: __________________
| _ swirls (dark) 
| _ paper (light) 
| _ green twilight (dark) 
| X do not use any background image 
|
| If you change to an image.... you get that image here and on the F10 desktop
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 117) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 2:50:42 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Eric,
|
| That link you left in post 114 is 100% JavaShit !!!!
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 118) Sat, Apr 08, 2006 - 3:05:43 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| rayandrews0
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 119) Sun, Apr 09, 2006 - 3:08:53 am 
|
| Eric>
| glennmcc, Re: #117 - I know, I didn't write the page...that's just
| normal for a majority of links harvested from magazines today!
| It's also doesn't take you directly to the maps and it ain't
| easy to find them. In my opinion, it's a typically, badly
| written/laid out site.  But if you search eventually one finds
| some maps if one is using a JS capable browser. <gggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 120) Sun, Apr 09, 2006 - 1:29:21 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| By that time... the weather has turned bad and can't go hiking. <gggg>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 121) Sun, Apr 09, 2006 - 2:16:31 pm 
|
| Eric>
Š| glennmcc,   That's what bad weather is for.....studying maps! <ggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 122) Sun, Apr 09, 2006 - 6:36:52 pm 
|
| gregy>
| Eric....better make that backpack trip in a hurry....the glaciers are
| melting....except for where they are increasing......<g g g g>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 123) Sun, Apr 09, 2006 - 7:20:54 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| he he he...I feel soooo sad for this guy...he keeps getting weirder and
| weider..further out and further out......<g g g g>
|
| http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/4/8/213816.shtml
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 124) Mon, Apr 10, 2006 - 5:17:04 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Well, you can feel sad if you so choose.
|
| Personally,
| I do not feel sad for and I do not pity someone who's _that_ STUPID.
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 125) Mon, Apr 10, 2006 - 11:25:00 pm 
| URL
|
| X86>
| MORNING:  My web server may be down over the coming weeks due to the builder
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  126) Tue, Apr 11, 2006 - 6:06:50 pm 
| URL
|
| Jake>
| As they say for radio competitions: "Answers on a postcard, please"...
|
| I heard a European Space Agency high-up interviewed a few months ago, and
| he said it was just his job to provide an engineering solution, but did
| later say it was great fun to have plenty of funding at his disposal.
|
Š|
| ============================================================================
|
|  127) Sun, Apr 16, 2006 - 8:08:07 pm 
|
| gregy>
| Greetings...
| ...
| For those of you of the "Christian Persuasion"....I greet you with:
|
| "He is risen"...and reply, "He is risen, indeed."
| ...
| Happy Easter....<g g gg>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 128) Sun, Apr 16, 2006 - 10:05:50 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| ahhh....as we always suspected.....
|
| http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008220
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 129) Sun, Apr 16, 2006 - 11:24:36 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| This guy is always very thought provoking:
|
| http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/hanson/hanson200604130
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 130) Sun, Apr 16, 2006 - 11:47:53 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| hmmmmm....
|
| http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn09.html
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 131) Mon, Apr 17, 2006 - 2:15:12 pm 
Š| URL
|
| glennmcc>
| Arachne v1.90 has been released.
|
| As always,
| it may be downloaded via the link on the front page of my web site.
| http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/
|
| As indicated there on the front page... core.exe is by Joe da Silva.
|
| Enjoy.
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 132) Mon, Apr 17, 2006 - 5:43:14 pm 
|
| ray>
| Gregy,
|
| hmmmmm indeed, it's about the same here in Kanistan.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 133) Mon, Apr 17, 2006 - 6:27:24 pm 
|
| gregy>
| Glenn....yes...<g>....thank you.....<g g g>
| ...
| ..
| Ray....Steyn is always entertaining...AND...he always seems to be "spot
| on".....
| ..
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 134) Mon, Apr 17, 2006 - 8:56:20 pm 
|
| ray>
| Interesting how often the best, and most acsessible wisdom on the 
| planet is to be had from cometators, columnists, and comics, *not*
| from politicians, pundits and proffessors.
|
| ...
|
| hey, I like that :-)
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 135) Mon, Apr 17, 2006 - 8:59:01 pm 
|
Š| gregy>
| hmmmm...practicing our alliteration, are we....????
| ..
| <g g g g>
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 136) Mon, Apr 17, 2006 - 10:04:41 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| scroll down....
|
| http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/979
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 137) Mon, Apr 17, 2006 - 11:42:16 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| The incomparible Hitch....
|
| http://www.slate.com/id/2140058/fr/nl
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 138) Tue, Apr 18, 2006 - 12:23:43 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| and, again....
|
| http://www.slate.com/id/2139609/
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 139) Tue, Apr 18, 2006 - 12:31:53 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| another...
|
| http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200604170640.asp
|
|
Š|
| ============================================================================
|
| 140) Tue, Apr 18, 2006 - 6:39:26 pm 
|
| ray>
| So are the 'climate experts' above credible? or should they be 
| given your usual denunciations as scandal mongers and cheats?
| What if some of them used to believe in GW but now are moderating
| their views based on continuing research? Seems to me a charlatan
| is *always* a charlatan regardless of which side of the fence he's
| on. OTOH, an honest scientist should be respected as such, *especialy*
| when he is the first to admit the changes mandated by further 
| research. This is why I don't slander folks who disagree with me --
| if they are cheats, then how can I accept their authority if/when
| they come over to my view? Do I keep company with fraud artists and
| grant suckers? Supposing those same scientists, given further
| research prove that CO2 is indeed causing a GHE? Do they become
| charlatans once again?
|
| How much better to give folks a bit of respect, the benefit of the
| doubt, as they say? Scientists are often wrong but the cool thing
| about science is that that sooner or latter it *admits* that it
| is wrong and moves ahead. I like it.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 141) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 2:08:15 am 
|
| gregy>
| Ray...that's all very well and good.....let's give ole Hitler, et al
| "the benefit of the doubt"..then, shall we...??
| ...
| Re:..."admits" that it is wrong....???....the past two centuries have
| pretty much shown the opposite...."it" rarely admits that its dogma
| is wrong....what happens is a few heretics bust things up a little..
| ..(al la the Alvarezes with their "comets strike destroyed the
| dinosaurs")...and FORCE the "consensus" to change slightly...but..the
| main bunch of "scientistic dinosaurs" keep wallowing on their way...
| still lionized and feated, and still collecting awards and MONEY....
| ...
| so-called "science" as practiced widely in today's world....isn't...
| science, that is....
| ...
| However...there is a vast majority of "practicing engineers" and
| "practical physicists/geologists/archeologists/chemists/etc" who
| actually ARE practicing science....I mean REAL, experimental science..
| ...but...that's not true of the high-mucky-mucks and pook-wallas..
| ...
| ...and....most of these "globwaams" ARE of the latter breed...
| ...
|
|
Š|
| ============================================================================
|
| 142) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 2:12:36 am 
|
| gregy>
| So...no....I don't respect them...and I give them no slack....why...???
| ...because they are guilty of murdering multiple millions of people
| with their crank/hoax hypothesis and scams....
| ..
| I could give a whole list of examples...but...one will suffice..
| ...
| DDT.....
| ..
| and...because they rammed THAT hoax thru the "brand-spankin-new" U.S.
| EPA....they doomed millions of third world peons/serfs to death by
| malaria....
| ...and THAT'S just a percentage of the blood on their hands....
| ..
| ...so...DON'T enjoin me to "show them some respect".....I won't do it
| ...
| ....and I'm right....
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 143) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 3:38:24 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| Oh...NO..!!!....it's finally happening..!!!  "The Sky is Melting...The
| Sky is melting...!!!!
| .
| http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49797
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 144) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 3:40:35 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| hmmmmm...
|
| http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49796
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 145) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 3:44:32 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| yep...gotta blame THIS on global warming.....too....
Š|
| http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/18/060418221440.ge1hwj2v.html
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 146) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 4:42:13 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| yup...another one to be enrolled under the EndangeredSpeciesAct...
| ...<g g g>
|
| http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/17/060417152551.0cz9tbn5.html
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 147) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 5:13:41 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| I think it's something in the air....no, maybe in the water...??.
| ..
| I mean....Al Galore is on the march, again...SERIOUSLY on the march...
| ...
| and, now...this....
|
| http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16958010%26method=full%26siteid=947
|
| oh, I forgot....we gotta blame it all on global warming.....
| ...
| ..and...
| ..
| on Bush..yeah...and Cheney, too....and Rove....and ....and....and..
| ...
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 148) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 5:32:11 am 
|
| Jake>
| Scientists & engineers everywhere: I salute you for your collective and
| individual efforts which allow me to live with greater comfort, safety
| and pleasure than would otherwise be the case. I acknowledge that many
| of you, as with any walk of life, may seek to maximize your personal
| gain. In most instances we applaud this, as the workings of market forces;
| in others we may question the value for (our) money you offer, even though
| we are unqualified to comment. Your place in the fabric of our society is
| integral. We hope and ask for the wisdom and guidance to make sensible use
Š| of the results of your efforts.
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  149) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 5:52:13 am 
|
| gregy>
| kudos to Michael Faraday and Clerk Maxwell...eh....???
| ...
| I mean, without them, we wouldn't have the web......<g g g g>
| ...
| oh, and I had a slight involvement in three of the webs predecessors..
| ...slight, mind you....<g g g>
| ...
| (no need to bow....<g g g g>....).
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 150) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 6:16:29 am 
|
| Jake>
| Hehe, if you look back at the early days of the Royal Society, there
| were popular comic plays about the antics of those time-wasting, money-
| wasting proto-scientists. Usually they frittered away their own family
| fortunes.
| (Side-note: US authors sometimes refer to the Royal Society as if it was
| something quaint or regal. It's just a name they're unfamiliar with.
| Unlike Newton, Hooke, Boyle, Faraday, Maxwell, Kelvin, Berners-Lee etc.) 
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 151) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 6:49:34 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,     What the heck is a "pook walla"?
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 152) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 11:52:03 am 
|
| Jake>
| Maybe he meant "punkah-wallah", the guy who has chief responsibility
| for circulating hot air? <G>
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  153) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 11:58:44 am 
| URL
|
| Jake>
| Oops, Newton et al (after all, he dabbled in non-scientific activities,
| and was a far better self-publicist than Hooke) can go to hell in a
| hand-cart, cos that silly ol' Royal Society has Jim Lovelock as a Fellow
Š| and provides reading matter such as this: <URL>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  154) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 2:25:35 pm 
|
| ray>
| Gregy,
|
| Ok, but if they are all pook walla's then why post a URL quoting
| their letter saying that GW is overblown? You can't quote
| an authority that you yourself don't respect and expect to be
| taken seriously do you? Nor can you cherry pick: for GW - pook walla,
| anti GW - good fella ... automaticaly.
|
| As to science, sure, paradigms tend to become pseudo-religions, but
| every 100 years or so those paradigms tend to crumble, be patient!
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 155) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 2:30:58 pm 
|
| ray>
| Jake, too bad that link is to a pdf file, damned things. Is there
| a DOS translator for them?
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 156) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 4:03:39 pm 
|
| Eric>
| Jake,     I never recall hearing about "punkah-wallah", but it sounds
| like he holds an important position! <ggg>  I've only heard of
| Punksatoni Pete ( or whatever) the weather predicting ground hog 
| from Pennsylvania, USA...Hey, I wonder what his position is on
| Global Warming? <ggg>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 157) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 5:00:05 pm 
| URL
|
| Jake>
| Gregy may have seen "It aint half hot Mum" 1970s BBC-TV comedy series
| about an army entertainment troup in WWII India or Burma. The punkah-
| wallah had to sit all day pulling a string to operate a trapdoor-style
| air wafter.
|
| I got less than halfway thru reformatting the RoyalSoc PDF before getting
| distracted for the evening. What's done is at the link... 
|
Š| ============================================================================
|
| 158) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 5:27:49 pm 
| URL
|
| glennmcc>
| Ray,
|
| http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/apm/ara-pdf.apm
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 159) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 5:28:46 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Eric,
|
| find:"punkah-wallah"
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 160) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 9:35:47 pm 
|
| gregy>
| yeah...but...I coined pook-walla...which is a denigratory degradation
| of the original term.....I mean...un-spit-on-able....<g g g>
| ...
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 161) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 9:40:31 pm 
|
| gregy>
| Ray....I posted a link to a news article that I thought was pertinent.
| ...
| FWIW...that link called them "experts"....my hackles immediately went up
| ...although it may NOT have been their fault...but the fault of the
| stupid MainLeftStreamMedia flack who was doing the reporting...
| ...
| However....I have the RIGHT to post links to who/what I think is TRUE
| ...I reject the insintuation that I'm required to post globwaam garbage
| and nonsense...in some misguided requirement for me to be "evenhanded"
| ...
| ...and...the point I was making with that link was, "It ain't ALL the
| ''consensus'' after all, is it"....so there..!!!
| ...
| <g g g g>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 162) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 9:44:32 pm 
Š|
| gregy>
| Jake....I haven't downloaded the .pdf, yet...maybe later....but, from
| the introductory HTML blurb, it sounds like that good ole Royal Society
| has decided to crank up their propaganda machine another notch...just
| so we all get the REAL story (the story according to THEM, that is)...
| ...
| However...just one small point....that intro-blurb complains that some
| have impugned the "scientists" as having overhyped this global disaster
| ....
| ...he he...the premier of those fellas has ALREADY admitted that, yes,
| they've overblown their statements about it, just so they could "get 
| their voice heard".....(ref....Mann's recent statement, which is
| floating around the web)....
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 163) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 10:04:44 pm 
|
| gregy>
| I think this is occasion to restate my (and similar others') stand:
| 1.  Global Warming appears to be happening.  However, the data only show
| a very slight warming up through 1997, thereafter none.
| 2.  This apparent slight temperature rise, by the recorded data, seems
| to have been from 1900-1945.
| 3.  This upward trend showed a decreasing temperature from 1945-1975
| (which caused the current "Hot-hot-crazies" lot to holler "New Icd Age"
| during the late 60s, early 70s)
| 4.  The trend from 1975-1997 again seemed point upward....since 1997,
| not...
| 5.  Given that comparison of climate data with that of the period known
| as the "Medieval Warm Period" shows that we have not yet recovered back
| to that level of temperatures;
| 6.  Given that that "Medieval Warm Period" was followed by the "Little
| Ice Age"..which we are classed as coming out of around 1870 (I pick a
| date slightly earlier - circa 1850-60)
| 7.  Given that, at sometime in the past, where I'm sitting (and where
| Glenn's sitting) was covered by a massive ice sheet, which is not NOW
| in existence.
| 8.  Taking all those givens (and a bunch of smaller additional givens)
| It is most reasonable to conclude:
| CONCLUSION:
| 1.  Have warmed up during human history, and within semi-recent history.
| 2.  This warming was NOT caused by man-generated "green-burp-gazz"
| emanating from the nether-orfices of mankind or its automobiles, or
| industrial installations.
| 3.  This apparent warming trend is continuation of a natural trend which
| is, overall, "a good thing"....
| 4.  This apparent warming trend is not controllable by mankind, and any
| attempt to propagate "hate humanity" sentiment is pseudo-science (at
| best) and should be subject to criminal liabilities/penalties (but it
| probably won't be...since we've shown a decided squishiness toward
| holding folks accountable for their ideas/actions)...
Š|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 164) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 10:09:54 pm 
|
| gregy>
| Oh, lest you try to gig me about "..holding folks accountable for their
| ideas/actions.."....remember that ideas have consequences.....and I'm
| sure that you'd like to go back and hold old Adolf accountable for his
| ideas BEFORE he had the opportunity to put them into practice....
| ...and...old Lenin and Stalin and Mao...???....their ideas weren't
| actionable (or shouldn't have been actionable...???)....???
| ....
| However...I'm not propounding lynching....just refutation...<g g g>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 165) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 10:18:26 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| yep...women sure were "better off" under Saddam...or so claims the U.N.
|
| http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/4/19/120314.shtml
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 166) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 10:50:43 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| ah...a nice bouquet...with the rose at the top.....<g g g>
|
| http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=14178&o=ANN001
| http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=14113
| http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=14112
| http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=14129
| http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=14128
| http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=14114
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 167) Wed, Apr 19, 2006 - 10:53:52 pm 
|
| ray>
| Glenn,
|
| Tx for link, I'll grab that tomorrow.
|
Š| Gregy,
|
| Nope, I don't expect you to be 'even handed' with things you
| think are wrong, just fair. What I was ribbing you about was the
| use of 'experts' when it suits you and the dissing of the same
| body of people when they don't share your view. IMO the most 
| important ingredient in a civil and progessive society is the
| ability of people to disagree and still be respectful of the
| other person. When we reach the point where disagreement destroys
| respect, then civil society is in grave danger.
|
| Civil society is in grave danger.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 168) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 5:33:46 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| As mall point about respect.
|
| Respect must be earned. It is not bestowed upon someone blindly.
|
| These so-called 'experts' have done nothing to earn my respect.
|
| Quite the contrary... with their constant misuse and abuse of power
| they have earned my contempt.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 169) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 7:47:24 pm 
|
| gregy>
| amen......
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 170) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 9:18:44 pm 
|
| ray>
| Yeah, but somehow that's not the point. Hard to explain ... worth
| clarifying ... It's not that fools, charlatans, frauds and
| scandalmongers 'should be respected' na that's not it. Perhaps it's
| that we should, as civilized men, be slow to attack the person and
| rather confine ourselves to dealing with the point at issue itself --
| let the *facts* do the damning.
|
| For example, in the GW discussion we've had, I myself found my view
| being changed, not by shrill ad-hominems, but, on the contrary, the
| more mild the tone, the more convincing the argument -- one is not
| distracted by personal attacks and extreme emotions, and the
| 'data speaks for itself'.  If I come across a phoney or a cheat, I 
| find it more civilized and more elegant, not to scream THAT MAN IS
Š| A CHEAT, but rather to simply expose the fraud and then walk away 
| smiling.  Besides, it's dangerous to asume that anyone who 
| disagees with you is a rotten guy, maybe he's honesly mistaken, and
| if you don't attack him personaly, he might just come round by your
| quiet persuasion ... or, (infalible people excepted) there is 
| always the chance that it is you and me who turn out to be mistaken
| and *we* will be the ones persuaded to change our view.
|
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 171) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 9:29:12 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Yes, I agree.
|
| My only point is that I can not feel respect for anyone who has not
| earned that respect.
|
| Regardless of who they are or what they say.
|
| You have earned my respect.
|
| Gregy has earned my respect.
|
| Joe, Michal, Vladimir, Michael, Christof, Laaca et al have _ALL_
| earned my respect.
|
| I cannot feel respect for someone I have not met and whom has done
| nothing to earn my respect.
|
| Respect must be earned.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 172) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 9:34:48 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| As for attacking someone 'personally'.
|
| I have never and will never attack any of the aforementioned
| 'expetrs on GW' personally.
|
| This is for the simply reason that I have not and will never meet any of
| them personally.
|
| In-order-to attack soneone personally... you must have met them personally.
|
| I have and will continue to attack their mis-conclusions and thier
| mis-reporting of the data at-hand.
|
Š|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 173) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 10:16:21 pm 
|
| ray>
| That's cool. The only thing more I could add it that 'respect'
| has several levels and motivations. Gregy has/had to show 'repect'
| to a superior even if he knows that person to be a nitwit. I agree
| completely when using the word in its 'highest' form. But 'civil'
| respect is just the habit that civilized people have of behaving
| decently toward one another, and non-provoctitavely, that makes it 
| possible for us to live together, we loose it at our peril.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 174) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 10:18:56 pm 
|
| gregy>
| yeah..Ray...and me in spades....
| ..
| Have I attacked anyone of "them" for the color of their ties...???
| ...
| Or, for the shape of their nose...???
| ...
| Or, color of their skin...???
| ...
| Or, have I attacked and disparaged them for the "(mis)shape of their
| stupid, fraudulent ideas and hysterical statements" (not to mention
| the actual damage/death their scam-ideas cause to other humans)...
| ...
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 175) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 10:22:22 pm 
|
| gregy>
| Ray....again....Are you supposing I should show ole Adolf "due respect"
| or even "any respect"....???
| ...
| When I see Hitler in modern guise....I call him for what he is...so..
| ..I have to tell you, again....I disagree with you about "respecting
| people I disagree with" when I know they are dangerously wrong, and
| their track record shows they are doing their "wrongness" deliberately
| to achieve their own "good agenda".....
| ...
| I refuse.....!!!!
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
Š| 176) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 10:36:30 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| Now, these folks are touting themselves as "experts"...they just lay
| out the facts:
|
| http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192544,00.html
|
| At this second one, authorization is required.  Just enter your
| email address and some kind of "password"....I don't think I'm even
| registered there.....<g g g>
|
| http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 177) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 10:37:19 pm 
|
| gregy>
| oops...correction "...now these folks areN'T....etc"
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 178) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 10:49:54 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
|
| http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5429
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 179) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 11:46:07 pm 
|
| gregy>
| On what the general, overall credibility of the MainLeftStreamMedia
| is:
|
| http://www.aim.org/aim_report/4503_0_4_0_C/
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 180) Thu, Apr 20, 2006 - 11:46:35 pm 
|
| gregy>
| And...to their performance as pertains to the "globwaam" hysteria:
|
| http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/4508_0_2_0_C/
|
|
Š| ============================================================================
|
| 181) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 8:38:24 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,      The masses exist on a different logic of their own. <ggg>
| They don't want to use your "logical standards". They don't want
| to "think/perform" in a scientific way! <ggg>   Those of us who
| even pretend to think/perform by a "logical/scientific" standard
| are ...made fun of....called geeks..."way out"....used for raising
| the audience of late night talk shows but largely ignored when
| it comes to the "every day running" of the country.  Right now.
| the whole country is pouring chemicals on their grass and then
| go inside to read about the "poor, polluted, state" of our
| water supply in the daily news. <ggg>  They are only interested
| in "science" when it raises/lowers their income or gives
| them text messaging or computer games or harder "dicks". 
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 182) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 2:31:14 pm 
|
| ray>
| Gregy,
|
| Hitler wasn't a scientist! Lousy comparison. But we've about flogged
| this to death, all I can say is I personaly am more persuaded by
| calm evidence than by calling people who disagree with you every 
| possible insult. For myself, that just makes me wonder why you need
| to resort to emotionalism. I'd be more persuaded by a more 
| data driven perspective. For me, calling every scientist who
| is concerned about the climate a fraud is a bit like Adolf calling
| every Jew an enemy of Germany. Myself I'm quite sure that the bulk
| of the scientists who are concerned about the climate are acting in
| good faith and I resent them being ridiculed.
|
| My point is just that I myself am *less* persuaded by this sort of
| aproach, which is too bad if you turn out to be right. One should use
| the most effective methods no? Thinking about what Eric said, it seems
| to me that the antidote for bad science and other sub-civilized
| behaviour is not more of the same, but rather a extra special 
| effort to return the debate to a 'resectful' level.
|
| ... or, as is increasingly the case, the left and the right can just
| keep sling mud and insults at each other and driving a deeper and
| deeper canyon between their camps to the point where democracy 
| colapsess totaly for lack of middle ground ...
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 183) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 4:12:37 pm 
|
| Eric>
Š| Ray,    There will always be a middle ground because there will always
| be those like me who like to watch the mudd flinging. <ggg>  But,
| I don't much like being the flinger or the flingee. <ggg> And when
| either side goes too far afield then they become the objects
| of ridicule and the butts of the latest jokes.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 184) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 5:46:05 pm 
|
| ray>
| Eric,
|
| Yeah, but you've gotta admit that the middle ground is shrinking.
| My understanding of democracy is that it *only* works when most
| folks are in the middle -- it prevents the extremists from finding
| a place to fissure society, but when society looks like a dumb-bell
| -- most folks at either end with just you and me in the middle, 
| things can fracture, don't you agree? I have friends who are as
| hard left as Gregy is hard right and the manner of speaking is 
| 'identical but opposite' if you get me, same lack of respect, same
| thinking that 'they' are evil-and-must-be-stopped-at-all-costs.
|
| "The right wing are taking over, they are intent on destroying 
| democracy, they want all power and money in the hands of a small,
| global kleptocracy. They are fundamentalist kooks who are anti-science
| anti human rights and anti environment. They must be stopped before 
| the US becomes a Christian-Taliban fundamentalist theocracy!"
|
| How can people like that, and people like Gregy, share the same 
| country? When I compare my friend Gregy to my leftist friends, I find
| that they are all well intentioned, but because they have no
| respect for the integrity of the 'other side' they are all prepared to
| take extreme measures to stop the ultimate evil of the other side
| from 'taking over'. It's not healthy.
|
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 185) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 6:16:49 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Where did you get the idea that 'science'
| has anything at-all in common with 'democracy' ????
|
| <ggggggggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 186) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 7:34:50 pm 
|
Š| Eric>
| glennmcc,   In the words of Former President Clinton, "What is your 
| definition of "science"?  Scientic "beliefs" have always been an
| expression of the majority of the "powerful" people at any 
| particular time in history. The majority of the masses tend to 
| agree with the "power" majority.  For example, the FDA just decreed
| that Maryjane has no PROVEN beneficial effect as a medication.
| Would you say that this is a politically motivated statement
| or a scientifically motivated statement.  I vote for a democratically
| decided politically motivated  scientific statement.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 187) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 7:38:28 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| OK.... your vote has been cast.
|
| We will now see if 'democracy' wins.
|
| <ggggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 188) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 7:51:29 pm 
|
| gregy>
| "Hitler wasn't a scientist! Lousy comparison. But we've about flogged.."
| "...data driven perspective. For me, calling every scientist who
| is concerned about the climate a fraud is a bit like Adolf calling..."
| ...
| Ray...anyone who proclaims false statements, claims those statements
| are "the scientific consensus"....and does this "to get their point
| noticed/accross" and to "advance their agenda"....because "their
| agenda" is the holy one...
| ...
| That person is tatamont to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Saddam, etc, etc
| ..et al
| ...
| I don't care whether or not said person labels himself a "scientist"
| ...he is NOT....!!!!  Not be the wildest stretch of the imagination
| can he be considered anything other than a fraud and charlatan...
| ...
| You mistake the people I call frauds for actual scientists....your error
| ...
| And...I do NOT label "honest disagree-ers" as frauds.  I disagree with
| Bjorn Lomborg on a host of items...but...he actually appears to be an
| honest environmentalist.....such people I appreciate and can/will talk
| to...
| ...but...people like Mann, et al.....it isn't that they haven't earned
| my respect (like Glenn says)....it is that THEIR performance, THEIR
| lies, THEIR fraud....has earned my total dispite and disrespect...and..
| sorry....once Hitler has shown his colors....there's no giving him 
| another chance...
Š| ...
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 189) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 7:55:40 pm 
|
| gregy>
| And...as for your "leftist" friends....I'm sorry for their poor, 
| unintelligent, brainwashedness....I have compassion on their poverty..
| ...but....I have NO sympathy for them.....
| ...
| They've sucked up a philosophy that's proven to be sadly and badly
| WRONG....and, if it was just harmless "wrong" then they could do as the
| Arabs say, and "go in their way."....
| ..
| Unfortunately....they are a danger to the human race in general, and to
| me and mine in particular.....so...I WILL oppose them, name them for
| what they are....and try to cancel out their political/social influence
| ...
| All strictly legal, by the way.....thru the ballot box...
| ...
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 190) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 7:59:38 pm 
|
| gregy>
| I'm not trying to beat up on you.....but I'll be hanged it you're gonna
| talk me into refraining from naming liers, liers, frauds as frauds, and
| charlatans as charlatans....I will NOT retreat into wishy-washy-ism...
| ...
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 191) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 8:15:27 pm 
|
| ray>
| Hehehe, no one will EVER expect wishywashy nothin' from you ;-)
| Well, never mind, as a middle of the road guy with friends in both
| camps, I just hate to see this level of animosity and find myself
| most persuaded by the guys with the lowest emotional thermostat.
| I tend to feel that the threat is not left vs. right, but moderation
| vs. extremism and believe me, I'm just as worried about leftist
| extremism as by your kind. As for me, I try to see the facts
| *inspite* of the rhetoric, not because of it.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 192) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 8:58:46 pm 
Š|
| gregy>
| well, Ray....I luv ya....and I truely wish that you would be most
| persuaded by the FACTS, rather than the "lowest emotional thermostat"
| demeanor of leftist-enviro-nut-talists......<g g g g>
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 193) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 9:42:39 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| :P~~~~~~~~~.........<g g g g g g g>
|
| http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/goldberg/goldberg20060
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 194) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 9:46:36 pm 
|
| ray>
| Oh, Gregy, I'm not trying to tell you what to do! I'm just giving
| you feedback on what works with me and what doesn't, that's all.
| I mean, you seem to be a man with a mission when it comes to this
| stuff and I figure you'd be interested if you are getting your
| message across. I'm interested in the topic and as you've seen, my
| 'panic level' has dropped due to your and Glenn's input, but 
| it's your facts that have done it, whereas your ad hominems have
| tended to reduce not enhance the effectiveness of your argument.
| Feedback, that's all I'm doing.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 195) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 9:49:07 pm 
|
| ray>
| Oh, and it's the same with the lefty-enviro-pooka-wookas -- when
| they start foaming at the mouth they loose me, when they 
| keep their shirts on I find myself listening.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 196) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 9:52:42 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| Well, well, well.....who wooda thunk it...???  Unbelievable...!!!!!
|
| http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060420/sc_space/emotionalwiringdifferentinme
Š|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 197) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 9:53:53 pm 
|
| gregy>
| I hear ya, Ray....I'm just "pulling your chain"......<g g g g>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 198) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 9:54:37 pm 
|
| ray>
| No one can say you aren't up on the topic, that's for sure!
| G'nite.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 199) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 9:59:55 pm 
|
| ray>
| Gotta love it. See? Science moves forward, however slowly. The
| day aproaches when, as a group, biologists and behavioral 
| researchers will actualy catch up with what normal folks have known
| since the Beginning, I may live to see it! ;-)
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 200) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 10:25:43 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| anOTHER one...unbelieveable..!!!...boy, these researchers are really
| goin' ALL OUT this week...!!!!
|
| http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192495,00.html
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 201) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 10:50:25 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Hmmmm,
|
| I am forced to ask.....
|
| How many hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars were wasted
| on those two research grants which have simply told us what we
Š| already knew to be true ????
|
| And how many more hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars will
| be wasted on new research grants to be done so that the findings
| of those 1st two studies can be either confirmed or dispelled ????
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 202) Fri, Apr 21, 2006 - 11:37:20 pm 
|
| gregy>
| WHATTTT....?!?!?!?!?!?....."...we already knew to be true ????".....
| ....????????
| ...
| We did....??????
| ....
| When did we did...???
| ...
| hmmmmm.....I mean...this MUST be NEW stuff, right...???  Otherwise,
| why would they research it....????
| ...
| hmmmm....I smell proggy-libs around there......they, of course, can't
| (or won't) remember what happened yesterday .....I mean, they
| wakey, wakey and it's a whooolllleeee new ballgame....THEY never said
| such a thing, yesterday....and if they did...why....just don't mention
| it...because they can't remember (remember those constant, "I don't
| recall...etc..etc" that the Climpfun Administration was famous for????)
| ..
| So, how can I answer your question(s) without causing you unbearable
| pessimism and depression.....????
| ....
| <g g g g g g>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 203) Sat, Apr 22, 2006 - 9:37:40 am 
|
| ray>
| Weeell, as always the real problem is how to throw out the bathwater
| but keep the baby. IMHO there is no doubt at all that unimaginable
| amounts of money are being wasted by grant-suckers, tenured
| twits etc. The trick is to trim the fat without stopping the real
| research (including into climate!) Some noise will *always* exist
| so cutting buggets until there's no more waste means cutting the
| budget to 0. (I laugh at, say, anti-war protesters who won't pay, say,
| 30% of their taxes to protest military spending because thats the
| fraction that goes to the military -- but 30% of the remaining 70%
| *still* goes to the military).
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 204) Sat, Apr 22, 2006 - 11:44:48 am 
Š|
| Jake>
| If we already "know" something, it most likely ain't science,
| just some primitive gut feeling. Go ask Lewis Wolpert.
|
| Cooking the books to get the results that should be obtained
| has always gone on. Precious little science would take place
| without its practitioners knowing what they were aiming for.
| I was mightily p*ssed off at obtaining Avagadro's Number out
| by a factor of 10 or more at age 14. I in no way condone
| fraudulent misrepresentation of data, but the further you go
| in science or engineering the more you have to take on trust,
| and lab sessions can seem a waste of time.
|
| I get more p*ssed off at finger-wagging at supposed scroungers,
| if only because the TV public info slots here always point at
| people low down in the pecking order. Meanwhile Tony bLiar's wife
| is in the news over her hairdressing expenses and I repeat: surely
| the armed services have the biggest amount of fun at the taxpayers'
| expense (so long as they keep out of harm's way).
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  205) Sat, Apr 22, 2006 - 3:55:50 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| re:"Weeell, as always the real problem is how to throw out the bathwater
| but keep the baby."
|
| Why do people insist upon turning simple tasks into dificult tasks ????
|
| Step 1) Remove baby from tub
| Step 2) Dry baby with clean towel
| Step 3) Dress baby in clean cloths
| Step 4) Put baby to bed in crib
| Step 5) Throw-out dirty bathwater
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 206) Sat, Apr 22, 2006 - 5:30:05 pm 
|
| ray>
| Jake,
|
| bLiar ... love it.
|
| Glenn,
|
| Yeah, but that takes five steps and it seems that that's too many
| for some nitwits. All or nothing solutions are so much more
| ideologicaly 'pure'. That's the problem with doctrinare leftists and
| doctrinare rightists -- both sides insist that everything is simple --
| just get 'them' out of the way and everything will be fine because
| all problems come from *them* -- and to compromise would only be 
Š| to admit sin into Eden.
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 207) Sat, Apr 22, 2006 - 5:40:28 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Oooohhhh, I see.
|
| We need a 'single step' solution to the problem.
|
| Noooooo proooobleeemm dude....
|
| Step 1) Throw out all doctrinare leftists and doctrinare rightists with the 
|
|
| Problem solved.
|
| <gggg>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 208) Sat, Apr 22, 2006 - 7:34:24 pm 
|
| Eric>
| Jake,     Any chemistry student who ever passed a lab course
| knows that the scientific approach is:
| 1. Figure out what the result of the experiment is supposed to be FIRST!
| 2. Run the experiment as fast as you can....damn the accuracy!
| 3. Figure out the FUDGE FACTOR! <ggg>
| 4. Write up the experiment, using the fudge factor, to get a good
| result, as predicted.
| 5. Don't make it look too perfect 'cause the instructor knows a
| perfect result is impossible!
|
| One time a lab partner and I did an experiment on LISAJOU figures
| and pendulums too perfect.  My partner was a neat freak and very
| talented at impecible model design and building. We turned in an
| impecible experiment write up after many long hours of work. We
| expected to be complemented and instead had our experiment returned
| with a C grade.  We were furious and went to talk to the instructor.
| He said that he looked at what we handed in and figured the results
| looked too good so he assumed we had drawn our Lisajou figures
| with a felt tip pen.  When we explained our procedures he appoligized
| and gave us an "A". He was one of my honest instructors. Unfortunately,
| some instructors/teachers/professors are too vain to admit they could
| ever make a mistake....I had some of those also!
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 209) Sat, Apr 22, 2006 - 9:53:46 pm 
Š|
| Eric>
| Jake,    Thinking of Chem Lab reminded me of stupid student 
| stunts like you posted on the testers board. The chem lab seemed
| to be the origin/impetus for stupid student stunts. One such stunt
| was done by my friend. He was the wizeguy who always finished his
| experiments early before anyone else. We were doing sodium fusion
| experiments and he finished early and left to walk about a block
| across campus before a passer-by pointed out to him that his pants
| leg was on fire. It was winter and cold and  he never noticed it.
| He had dropped a piece of sodium into his pants cuff which set his
| pants on fire.  By the time he got the fire out his pants leg was
| gone halfway up to his knee. <gggg>  Of course he had attracted
| quite an audience of on-lookers by the time he was done.  
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 210) Sun, Apr 23, 2006 - 5:14:13 am 
|
| Jake>
| <G>
|
| Just FYI the Avo's No. expt. was in Physics, by Brownian motion. My set
| was subject to an edjoocational expeeriment and we did "Nuffield" Physics
| (maybe directly sponsored by the car industry magnate?). It was all very
| experimental, so we spent a lot of time rolling small trolleys down slopes
| and banging them into each other to fully ingrain the basics of momentum,
| potential and kinetic energy etc.
|
| As a kid, you take on hundreds of years of science and maths per year of
| study and, in my case, not much seems to have stuck...
|
| But I'm quite good at making fudge!  
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
|   211) Sun, Apr 23, 2006 - 9:40:29 am 
|
| ray>
|
| Glenn, re 207, now that's what I call thinking outside the box.
| It's interesting how the study of something as 'dry' as formal logic
| gives you a edge in doing just that, thinking outside the box,
| because you learn to consiously evaluate the hidden premises and
| parameters of the problem. As to political polarization and the
| problems it entails -- sheesh, let's not wait for one side or the
| other of the totalitarians to take over send everybody else to the
| gulag, let's us middle-roaders throw all of 'them' into the gulag
| first. Then we can resume the hard, dilemma ridden, compromise
| riddled task of muddling through (which is just what democracies are
| good at -- muddling through).
|
| Love the stories guys.
|
Š|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 212) Sun, Apr 23, 2006 - 10:29:14 am 
|
| Eric>
| Ray,    The problem is.....when you eliminate the "far left" and
| the "far right" then those on the fringes of "middle roaders"
| become the "far left" and "far right".  The poles may be a little
| closer together, but...they don't go away! <ggg>  The voids always
| get filled! <ggg>  The "fars" are like the anchor men in tug of war.
| If the anchorman slips and falls then the next guy in front of him
| becomes the anchorman...and...it's the guys in the middle of the
| rope that get pulled into the mud first. The guys on the ends of
| the rope often don't even get their feet muddy 'cause the mud puddle
| gets filled up with the middle guys and there is no more room for
| the guys at the end.  And the guys in the middle on both sides usually
| share the mud as the tug of war occilates back and forth! <ggg> 
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 213) Sun, Apr 23, 2006 - 1:00:33 pm 
|
| ray>
| You are a wise man Eric.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 214) Sun, Apr 23, 2006 - 1:30:25 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Get rid of the anchor men...
| all remaining participants let go of the rope...
| no-one gets muddy...
| problem solved.
|
| <ggggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 215) Sun, Apr 23, 2006 - 4:52:42 pm 
|
| Eric>
| glennmcc,    Ah, but here's the fallicy with your solution....
| someone has to have the power to convince the masses and 
| orchestrate the release....the participants can't just willy
| nilly let go of the rope when they get moved to do so...or...
| someone gets muddy....If the masses release simultaneously...then...
| as one anchorman approaches the mud his resolve usually dissolves and
| he lets go...and the "winning" anchorman has lost his support...but
| whoever orchestrated the release now has the power...and...what are
Š| his intentions?  
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 216) Sun, Apr 23, 2006 - 5:30:25 pm 
|
| Jake>
| To orchestrate the release -- bring on the dancing girls!
|
| Women always have the whip-hand <G>
|
| As to their intentions.... ???
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  217) Sun, Apr 23, 2006 - 6:31:49 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Jake has the right idea.
|
| Bring on the dancing girls !!!!
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 218) Sun, Apr 23, 2006 - 8:52:26 pm 
|
| Eric>
| Hey Guys,   I'm not foolish enough to refute the power of the
| dancing girls...but...Do they have a leader?  Be careful that
| they're not just a distraction! <ggg>    Be advised....watch
| your backs while they're dancing! <ggg>  And be suspicious
| when they tell you to look into their eyes! <ggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 219) Mon, Apr 24, 2006 - 1:45:36 am 
|
| Jake>
| Occasionally a leader is revealed, and it gets scarey (remember Mrs Thatcher
| but mostly they're like ants -- an unstoppable force that gets whatever it
| wants done. There's no resistance, cos they got some prominent males under
| their control to ban DDT...
|
| Ooh-err, Mrs Thatcher dancing <shudder>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  220) Mon, Apr 24, 2006 - 11:32:41 am 
|
| Eric>
| Jake,  
|
Š| There once was a house with a leak
| That appeared in the news every week
| But the thatcher did thatch
| As Mrs. Thatcher danced
| And the neighbors all oo'd ah'd and eek'd
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 221) Mon, Apr 24, 2006 - 2:49:58 pm 
|
| Jake>
| :-)
|
| Alan Alda interviewed today, said that to call someone a Liberal
| these days was worse than calling `em a Commie way back when.
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  222) Mon, Apr 24, 2006 - 3:05:11 pm 
|
| ray>
| Me, I'm a conservative socialist.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 223) Mon, Apr 24, 2006 - 4:48:10 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| glennmcc == anarchist
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 224) Mon, Apr 24, 2006 - 6:48:37 pm 
|
| ray>
| You mean a *real* one? ... no government at all?
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 225) Tue, Apr 25, 2006 - 12:23:52 am 
|
| gregy>
| Ray....socialism IS communism....just tarted up a bit.....<gg  g>
| ...
| sorta like the "dancing girls"....keeps your mind off what's really
| about....<g g g>
| ...
| <gregy === millenial kingdom-er>.........<g g g g>
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
Š|
| 226) Tue, Apr 25, 2006 - 1:26:32 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| hmmmmmm.....
|
| http://www.opinionjournal.com/weekend/hottopic/?id=110008277
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 227) Tue, Apr 25, 2006 - 7:04:18 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,     Re: Millenial Kingdom-er ......That could make you almost
| anything! <ggg>  Based on what I read in Wikipedia, There are many
| different interpretations of what a Millenial Kingdom-r might be.
| Hitler's name and the 3rd Reich even come up. And Ebay says:
|
| "Millenial Kingdom - You can find anything you want on Ebay" 
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 228) Tue, Apr 25, 2006 - 8:45:12 am 
|
| Jake>
| Re: #225
|
| Give to Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  229) Tue, Apr 25, 2006 - 2:58:17 pm 
|
| ray>
| Gregy,
|
| Nope, Socialism isn't Communism anymore than Repulicans are Democrats.
| The two grade into each other of course, just as the polite right
| grades into facsism, but the biggest difference is that commies believe
| in dictatorship but social dems, like me, believe that the people
| must be free to choose the government of their choice -- even GWB, 
| God help us.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 230) Tue, Apr 25, 2006 - 3:04:13 pm 
|
| ray>
| The article, looked at logicaly seems to say:
Š|
| -the environment is better than it was
| -the above improvement is mosty due to the fact that the greens
|  convinced people that things needed to change by warning them of
|  the consequenses if they didn't change.
| -the greens are still warning people they need to change.
| -the previous predictions of calamity didn't come true.
| -ERGO: the greens are F.O.S.
|
| But a logician would point out that the previous predictions didn't
| come true *because* they were listened to and action was taken
| ERGO: we should listen to the greens to prevent future calamity.
|
| The argument backfires.
|
|  
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 231) Tue, Apr 25, 2006 - 4:48:29 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| re:"Nope, Socialism isn't Communism anymore than Repulicans are Democrats."
|
| Ahhhh, quite correct.
|
| Republicans practice "spend, spend, spend.... tax, tax, tax"
|
| Where-as
| Democrats practice "tax, tax, tax ... spend, spend, spend".
|
| Socialism practices "100% governmental controll of every aspect of life"
|
| Where-as
| Communism practices "every aspect of life 100% within governmental controll"
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 232) Tue, Apr 25, 2006 - 6:10:16 pm 
|
| ray>
| He He, had to laugh.
|
| But you make a valid point, the problem with socialism is that it 
| tends to degenerate into 'nanny statism' that's why we convervative
| socialists are always running around trying to keep our 'own 
| people' under control. They tend to mean well, but can go quite
| whacko if you let them. It isn't easy :(
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 233) Tue, Apr 25, 2006 - 6:33:32 pm 
Š|
| glennmcc>
| So why continue to fight a losing battle ?
|
| Eliminate the strife by eliminating the cause of the strife.
|
| Abolish the government and there is no longer any reason to attempt
| to do what can't be done.
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 234) Tue, Apr 25, 2006 - 9:15:25 pm 
|
| ray>
| Who paves the roads? 
| Is there a police force?
| Army?
| Courts? ... hmmm, should get rid of those anyway ;-)
|
| And it *can* be done, don't let the last 50 years or so 
| discourage you ;-)))
|
| Gregy???
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 235) Thu, Apr 27, 2006 - 12:20:56 am 
|
| gregy>
| hmmm...I hafta think on how to respond.....to Glenn, too...
| ...
| I do know...given the non-perfect nature of mankind...that perfection
| is NEVER possible....
| ...
| ..however...that doesn't excuse us from making the effort, and, at
| least, making things as "good as we can"....but...here commies have a
| far different view of "good as we can" than I do.....<g g g>
| ...
| (and, of course, as I said, commies are just "out of the closet" 
| socialists......<g g g g g>.....).....
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 236) Thu, Apr 27, 2006 - 1:42:54 am 
|
| gregy>
| "We are horribly dependent on foreign oil. But we shouldn't develop
| domestic oil or boost our refining capacity. We need a gas tax to wean
| Americans from foreign oil, but high gas prices are an outrage. We
| need alternative forms of energy, but we shouldn't use nuclear power.
| We need renewable, sustainable energy, unless it interfers with the
| view of rich liberal icons." (Jonah Goldberg, NationalReviewOnline..
Š| Corner)..
|  
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 237) Thu, Apr 27, 2006 - 1:43:34 am 
|
| gregy>
| Guess which parties ideas those are....????
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 238) Thu, Apr 27, 2006 - 7:07:40 am 
|
| ray>
| Democrat?
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 239) Thu, Apr 27, 2006 - 8:15:43 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,     Did you read #227
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 240) Thu, Apr 27, 2006 - 9:15:12 pm 
|
| gregy>
| Eric...just to maintain my "aura of mystery"...I refuse to clarify..
| ...<g g g >
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 241) Thu, Apr 27, 2006 - 10:25:53 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| hmmmm...interesting....
|
| http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/dastych022706.htm
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 242) Thu, Apr 27, 2006 - 11:05:12 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
Š| ya gotta see it, to believe it....!!!!
|
| http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/268168_shootingfollow27.html
| http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20060427/226CapitolHillGun_1.jpg
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 243) Thu, Apr 27, 2006 - 11:12:46 pm 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| uhhh...Ray....???
|
| http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=24&art_id=vn200604270158568
|
| Socialists....?????
| ...
| <g g g g g g>
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 244) Thu, Apr 27, 2006 - 11:28:38 pm 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,    Re: #241 .... What's the idea of posting a link to
| this "juicy Lucy" crap "free" gifts! <gggg> The damn popups
| wouldn't stop... eeeeeeek!! <ggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  245) Thu, Apr 27, 2006 - 11:36:54 pm 
|
| gregy>
| uuhhhmmmm....#241...???...."...this "juicy Lucy" crap "free" gifts!..."
| ...???...."popups"....???
| ....
| Eric...ErrrrICK..!!!....you've been playing with Wingedoze Blow$er
| again.....<g g g g>
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 246) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 12:03:45 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| I wonder......nope...not....I'll wonder if this one will make YOU
| wonder.....<g g g>
|
| http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/arizonaliving/articles/0426marissa0
Š|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 247) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 12:37:58 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,    you got a point there. <ggg>  I was using my Juno software, so,
| I was on Intentional Exploder when I clicked your link.
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  248) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 12:58:12 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,      What am I supposed to be wondering about?  Marissa?
| Nothing new there....typical American.....I just wonder where they
| get all the money from! <ggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  249) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 1:05:02 am 
|
| gregy>
| I think she said, somewhere in the article, that her dad owned three
| (count 'em, three) car dealerships.....<g g g g>
| ...
| I think I also remember her saying "I get everything I want."...or words
| to that effect....<g g g>
| ..
| That's typical....???
| ...
| gee, and we're constantly being told how bad the american people have
| it....the economy and all, you know...???
| ...
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 250) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 1:14:11 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,     Fair fight??    A six shooter against two Glocks !
| They didn't say how many bullets were discharged from the
| six-shooter. <ggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  251) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 1:17:44 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,    It's the masses that have it bad.....not the car dealers!
Š|
| ============================================================================
|
| 252) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 1:28:45 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,    It's been my experience that anybody who deals in cars
| gets his money by methods that I am ashamed to use.  I can not deal
| with people, and don't want to, the way they do.  It's not an easy
| business but there's a lot of money to be made if you aren't ashamed
| to use the "right" tactics!
|  
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
|   253) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 2:03:33 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| double hmmmmmmm......
|
| http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5447
| http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4970&search=Wilson
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 254) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 2:05:58 am 
|
| gregy>
| Eric....remember....it ain't supposed to be a "fair fight"...when it's
| cops confronting "bad guy"......<g g g g>
| ...
| ...and...we know that, at least, one round was discharged from the six
| shooter....backward.....<g g g g>
| ...
| ...and...thankfully, the six-shooter shooter didn't survice the
| encounter.....
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 255) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 2:08:15 am 
|
| gregy>
| Eric....as in "would you buy a used car from this man...???"....<g g g>
| ...
| he he...I have to confess that, "once upon a time, in a land far away.."
| ...I was an Account Executive in a Bucket Shop.....<g g g>
| ...
| I actually made my clients lotsa money...(didn't make myself rich, 
| though).....<g g g>
|
Š|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 256) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 11:52:50 am 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,     Please explain "account executive in a bucket shop".
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  257) Fri, Apr 28, 2006 - 5:25:22 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| There is one thing the _we_ have which we must get rid of if we want to get 
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| .
| Our consciences.
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 258) Sat, Apr 29, 2006 - 8:26:02 am 
Š|
| ray>
| Yup, most rich people are scoundrels, not all by any means, but most.
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 259) Sat, Apr 29, 2006 - 3:21:35 pm 
|
| Eric>
| glennmcc,    There's that word "science" again....con-science...
| we can't get away from it! <ggggg>
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 260) Sat, Apr 29, 2006 - 4:50:56 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Yep...
|
| And those who try to 'con' you with their phony 'science' ...
|
| have no conscience.
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 261) Sat, Apr 29, 2006 - 10:40:23 pm 
|
| ray>
| Au contraire! I think most eco-extremist types def. have consciences,
| probably too much so to the point where they let their conscientiousness
| and morality vis. the state of the planet cloud their more sober
| scientific side. Take GW, I'm sure that most of the people who are
| on the bandwagon really do think they are doing good, but they let
| their zeal, and need to protect the rest of us from ourselves, 
| carry them away. .... hmmm .... Nope you are right, I'm confusing
| conscience with good intentions -- not the same thing. Ones
| C. should infact guard one *against* acting dishonestly, even if
| it seems to be in a good cause. As my dad says: "The road to Hell
| is paved with good intentions." and might I add "With soiled
| consciences."
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 262) Sun, Apr 30, 2006 - 3:07:49 am 
|
| gregy>
| Eric.....Arachne does "define:bucket shop"....just fine....try the
| 2nd/3rd definitions.....<g g g g>
|
|
Š| ============================================================================
|
| 263) Sun, Apr 30, 2006 - 9:09:04 am 
|
| ray>
| You in some sleazy stock outfit??? Can't believe that.
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 264) Sun, Apr 30, 2006 - 2:30:39 pm 
|
| Eric>
| Gregy,     That was my understanding of "bucket shop" but it didn't
| seem to correlate with car dealers. <ggg> I guess you were saying
| "same morals...different merchandise". <ggg>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 265) Sun, Apr 30, 2006 - 3:21:18 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| Ray,
|
| re: post 261
|
| Yep... you got it.
|
| "....conscience with good intentions -- not the same thing."
|
| Exactly correct.
|
| As is this exactly correct as-well...
|
| "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
| and might I add "With soiled consciences."
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 266) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 4:51:32 am 
| URL
|
| gregy>
| Here..!!!  This is what I was saying about this whole globwaam
| originating with that vicious, stupid fraud Sagan....and his need to
| explain-away the high heat of Venus...
| ...
| http://www.freemarketproject.org/news/2006/news20060420b.asp
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 267) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 6:18:44 am 
Š| URL
|
| Jake>
| Here's the Washington Post article. Any reason for not linking to it (maybe 
| for users of US ISPs?).
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  268) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 6:58:24 am 
|
| Jake>
| A crap, hysterical article, Gregy. I see no mention of Sagan, just the compu
| say you don't trust.
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  269) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 10:12:21 am 
|
| Jake>
| Sorry, not my usual polite self <G>
|
| Crap weekend of broken promises and server migration problems.
|
| Oh, it's meant to be a long holiday weekend here...
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  270) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 2:25:18 pm 
|
| gregy>
| Jake....the "mention" of Sagan IS those allusions to "tipping point(s)"
| and "runaway greenhouse" effects for the planet Venus.....he is the sole
| origin for that stupidity....
| ...
| Read my previous rants about him......<g g g g>
| ...
| And, then, if you have any interest, go study his shameful captaining
| of the asault on Velikovsky.....but...be prepared for loooonnnngggg
| sessions of reading.....<g g g g>
| ...
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 271) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 2:26:58 pm 
|
| gregy>
| No, I didn't (don't) link to some things, here, when there are clear
| links within the link I do provide....or....maybe I never considered
| the WashComPost article germane to my point...
| ...
|
|
Š| ============================================================================
|
| 272) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 3:44:35 pm 
|
| Jake>
| Any system can have a tipping point with the "wrong" set of inputs. It's ext
| to assume that Mankind can produce an input powerful to affect life on Earth
| other hand to assume that we CAN'T.
|
| When you mentioned Velikovsky before, all I found was that he appears to hav
| a renegade nutter. I was too young or not around for him to have impacted on
| life <G>
|
| Your linked-to article selectively quotes for its own purposes and I'm sure 
| that reading the sources rather than some secondhand piece is part of the re
| unless you are pre-sold on a particular viewpoint. At this remove I see no n
| ridicule the Washington Post and would ask you to point to specific instance
| in the two articles.
|
| http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/09/AR2006040900
|
| http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/19/AR2006041902
|
| The opening sentence of the 2nd article is too cut & dried even for me, but 
| Govt's policy and yours, I think. You wouldn't expect, for the sake of balan
| and science writer to give credence to the Flat Earthists. Heck, they might 
| "Intelligent Design" <G>
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  273) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 4:39:56 pm 
|
| ray>
| My you are in a short mood Jake ;-)
|
| But you should read Velikovsky for yourself, even if you don't
| swallow all his theories; the man was a brilliant and original
| thinker and even if he is proven wrong, his ideas stimulated a
| huge amount of thinking and research. In fact, it's past time
| I myself reread his work.
|
| BTW I'm an ID guy, and an active participant in the movement.
| No offence tho, we understand that the forces of Orthodoxy are
| in such a state of panic given the overwhelming power of our
| arguments, that their best tool for stopping us is insult and
| ad hominems and the increasingly desperate attempt to prevent us 
| from making our case, especialy to students (wouldn't want kids
| in science class to be exposed to anything that might cause them to
| question Orthodoxy, now would we?)
|
|
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
Š| 274) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 4:59:30 pm 
|
| Jake>
| Yup, bad mood because guys that are certainly more knowledgeable
| than me (server admins etc) yet again show they can't complete
| what they say was necessary in the timespan suggested. Their
| decision to fiddle (a la Chernobyl) was taken with the "We know
| best attitude". Prior to that I got a call with no warning to
| do something yesterday and today, which meant working through
| a day and a night to prepare for something quite stressful in
| itself. I've been waiting like a pilot to scramble, only the
| call to action didn't materialize. I don't know what's happened,
| and part of the problem is an email service that's gone tits-up.
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  275) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 5:00:24 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| ID == attempting to use 'science' to prove the existence of GOD.
|
| FYI.... no can do.
|
| GOD flat-out refuses to allow HIS existence to be proven.
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 276) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 5:02:37 pm 
|
| glennmcc>
| <Beavus & Butthead mode>
|
| He said 'tits'... ha ha, ha ha
|
| </Beavus & Butthead mode>
|
| <gggg>
|
|
| ============================================================================
|
| 277) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 5:15:57 pm 
|
| Jake>
| Hu hu, hu hu hu hu... <G>
|
| Yeah, what's so intelligent about me having tits?
|
| ============================================================================
|
|  278) Mon, May 01, 2006 - 5:17:07 pm 
|
| ray>
| Glenn,
|
Š| Nope, ID has nothing whatsoever to say about God, formal