MISCELLANEOUS Message Board Mon, 04 Dec 2006 20:03:18 ______________________________________________________________________________ | ============================================================================ | | 1) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 10:23:24 am | | gregy> | new board....messed that last one up when I edited it in DOS... | ... | ..stupid, lousy, UNIX-style .TXT file..... | | ============================================================================ | | 2) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 10:28:39 am | | Eric> | Gregy, of course you saved a copy first before editing.... | like I always do........oops! | | ============================================================================ | | 3) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 10:30:43 am | | gregy> | Jake...one of your previous posts...Re: 20:1 kill ratio...??? | ... | That figure is a proggylibLIE...but....just for the limited sake of this | argument.....that would be a 30,000 figure...???...right..??? | ... | hmmmmm.....let's see, now...... | conservatively calculated total of 600,000 done by the "Great Leader" | and his saddamites...??? | ... | ...errmmmm...well....let's figure..... | ... | ..by golly..!!!.....why coor blimey..!!!....that looks like a 20:1 | saddamite ratio, right there...don't it...??? | ... | he he....hey..!!!....you Ewwwwroes and anti-yankBrits wanna sit there | and get dressed in bedsheets and beards and have your females bagged | from head to toe...???....well, "good on ya, mate"...as the Aussies | say... | ... | I prefer to hit them in their breeding grounds... | ... | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 4) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 10:31:24 am | | gregy> | Eric....I was hoping nobody would be so rude as to mention that... | .... | | | ============================================================================ | | 5) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 10:32:23 am | | gregy> | however...I forgive you.....it's not the end of the world, ...to be | caught in such a "newbie-stupidity" I mean..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 6) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 10:35:08 am | | gregy> | I was trying to do a quicky-censor job on my yesterday posts...and I | chanced it....and it didn't work.... | ... | I'll hafta dig out a "stupid-editor" that saves things in UNIXLINUX | Elitist-stupid-style (with only ^Js, instead of CR/LF format)...and | get that set up for quickcensor operations.... | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 7) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 10:41:44 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/11/8/211102.shtml?s=sr | | | ============================================================================ | | 8) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 11:51:06 am | URL | | Jake> | http://arachne.le14.co.uk/gregy/uncensored.htm | | Just lending a helping hand, Old Bean. | | ============================================================================ | | 9) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 12:01:36 pm | URL | | gregy> | It's nice to see that the Brits haven't gone ALL stodgy .... | | http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2444142,00.html | | | | ============================================================================ | | 10) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 12:03:22 pm | | gregy> | righto...Jake...thanks.... | ... | | check the "your lot's" post above.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 11) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 1:37:41 pm | | Jake> | Gawd, what a plonker! (#9) | | ============================================================================ | | 12) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 4:14:22 pm | | Eric> | Gregy, You know what a rude bunch we are...so.... | you knew we would mention it...but...not condemn | you. After all, none of us have ever lost | anything, right? hehehe | | | ============================================================================ | | 13) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 4:25:02 pm | | Eric> | Re: #9 ... Now that's what I call a cracker! | WE seem to grow them "smarter" every day. | | ============================================================================ | | 14) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 4:40:33 pm | | glennmcc> | gregy, | | re:"..that's with Lynx, ...???...login, exitLynx, re-fire-it-up, and | still logged in....did I understand...??" | | Yep.... you understand correctly. | | Login with Lynx. | Choose to "stay logged-in on this computer unless I logout". | Quit Lynx. | Start Lynx back up again. | Visit my.ebay.com and I'm still logged-in. | | | ============================================================================ | | 15) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 4:43:42 pm | URL | | Jake> | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/09/science_alarm_pope/ | | | ============================================================================ | | 16) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 4:45:55 pm | | glennmcc> | BTW, | | To fix that problem of 'dificulty in editing'..... | | I'm gonna re-write my PHP to save the posts in DOS format instead of | UNIX format. | | And of-course I'll share the method with ya :)) | | ============================================================================ | | 17) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 6:56:13 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Got it. | | The posts files can now be edited directly in Arachne by linking | the the file via FTP and then pressing F4 to edit it. | | After editing... press F2 to save the changes | (or link to the 'Save and view' button), | Then press F2 to upload the edited file via FTP to over-write the | existing file. | | Here's the testing file I just completed.... | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/aqc/archives/posts47.txt | | | Look for all of the changes dated Nov 09, 2006 in the new php-src. | | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/aqc/php-src.txt | | ============================================================================ | | 18) Thu, Nov 09, 2006 - 7:25:21 pm | | glennmcc> | Be forewarned tho...... | | We must remember that each of the various 'fields' must be be kept on | it's own line. | | Therefore, The Arachne internal editor will not work for editing any | file that has line-lenths of greater than 78 characters (or whatever you | have your linewrap set for) | | Most DOS text editors also have a line-length limit | that might mess things up. | | So be carefull when editing. | | | | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 19) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 10:55:03 am | | glennmcc> | Update to ebay cookies/stay_logged-in | | Even tho the saved cookies keep me logged-in... it still goes to https | to send the cookie to ebay. | | So even if Joe could figure-out a way of making Arachne cookies | compatible with Lynx cookies... it still would not help us because we | still need https access to send that cookie to ebay. | | ============================================================================ | | 20) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 1:57:34 pm | | ray> | Gotta get HTTPS working. Show me some source code for some | DOS implementation of it and I'll steal it. Are Lynx sources | available? | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 21) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 4:13:00 pm | | glennmcc> | None available that I'm aware of :( | | Nope... Lynx w/https is 'closed SRC'. | | | ============================================================================ | | 22) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 4:31:36 pm | | glennmcc> | For DOS I mean. | | At-least that's the way it seems because I have searched high and low | and everywhere in between and can't find the DOS SRC code. | | The Linux code I can find.... but not DOS. :( | | ============================================================================ | | 23) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 4:34:21 pm | | Eric> | Darn, I wish you northwesterners would stop sending | us your rain/snow fronts. One is arriving right now | and it's going to spoil Vet's Day for us. I wish we | could blow it back your way...but...I know you won't | believe me...but we just can't conjure up enough | hot air to send it back. | | | ============================================================================ | | 24) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 4:57:08 pm | | ray> | Sheesh, all you ever get is the tail end of our wether systems | and you can't even handle that, sissies. To be fair, it works the other | way around too -- sometimes the trivial remnants of a Gulf | warm front meet a cold front up here and there's a bit of a brease | and we presume to call it a tornado. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 25) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 4:58:49 pm | | ray> | Hey, this Polosi (sp?) lady seems like quite a gal, for a Dem, | that is. | | | ============================================================================ | | 26) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 5:19:10 pm | | Jake> | Gregy would take on a gang of girl Grizzlies, first | | ============================================================================ | | 27) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 5:41:41 pm | | gregy> | hey...Ray....she's a REALLLLL far-out proggylib.....so....she'd fare | poorly were she to ever meet me.. | ... | Jake....her...??? Hey, I got a proggylib older sister and younger, and | I've never had a problem cutting the heart/soul out of any prog... | ... | Rather take on a gang of Piglousies than one female griz....they really | ARE a tough nut to crack..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 28) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 5:52:16 pm | | gregy> | ooops...I didn't catch you quick enough, Glenn....I was gonna suggest | that we "hold off" on fixin' my gripe about (mumble, mumble rotten | UNIX/LINIX newline, etc)..... | ... | I appreciate your "johnnyquickonthespot" response...but...hey..you | gotta remember that this is "gregy"....and sometimes I step on my | tongue..... | ... | I kinda wanted to ponder that, before suggesting any fix....I think I | am going to keep mine the "UNIX-way" for a while... | ... | I figured out what I did wrong, and I could have fixed it up...(if I | hadn't thrown the file on mmy HDD away, too)..... | ... | What I needed to do was delete ONLY the "TextField" part of those | entries....instead, I blitzed everything after the "gregy" and entered | the CENSORED....but...by doing that, I shifted all the fields out of | whack and so hadda ditch the thing... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 29) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 5:54:43 pm | | gregy> | Oh, Ray, Jake....this Piglousy..?? I've watched her for the past couple | years....and she is REALLLLL stupid....so....the only thing that would | save her would be if my extreme pity rose up inside me, enough to make | me have mercy on her stupid carcass | | | ============================================================================ | | 30) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 6:31:46 pm | | glennmcc> | re:" she is REALLLLL stupid...." | | Oh, you mean she's a "perfect politician" then. | | | ============================================================================ | | 31) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 6:33:24 pm | | glennmcc> | As to the UNIX/DOS fix ..... | | Fine, be that way.... don't use my fix.... see if I care. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 32) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 7:46:52 pm | | gregy> | well....sorta...mostly...ermmmmm....I guess I'm too lazy.... | ... | he he...if I "use your fix"...I'll hafta re-edit it to conform to my | "non-automagicalsave" style of archiving.... | ... | Actually, if I'd only keep my head screwed on halfway straight, the | UNIX style is really easier to use... | ... | And, when I get my OS/2 install on this P133, then those editors (OS2 | ones, I mean) default to the UNIX (^J) type of files... | ... | Sorta the way your preferred programming eds (linux ones) do.... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 33) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 7:50:26 pm | URL | | gregy> | Glenn...or somebody....I think you've got a hispeed connection...??? | ... | http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/d_gx1p/en/7323D_en.exe | | I download this file, it says its length is 7,487,526bytes, but the | DELL server keeps dropping my download connection at approximately | 1,370,000bytes..... | ... | Could you check to see if you can download it...??? | ... | Then, FTP upload it to TheOtherPlace, and give me a link....??? | ... | I'd appreciate it muchly.... | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 34) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 7:58:57 pm | | gregy> | Why I need that .pdf is because I just got a Dell OptiPlex GX1, 450MHz, | PIII, at my local pawnshop....Dell calls it a "mini tower"...but it's | about 1.5 inches taller than my existing minitowers. I got it with the | minitower(midtower), monitor, keyboard and mouse... | ... | Price....$30.00..... | ... | I mean, even if it was blitzed, it would be worth that for parts... | .. | But, everything seems to be working...it does that "FancyScreen" Dell | POST (you know, with the onscreen screen and the percent complete | statusbar..???).... | ... | But, when it gets to the floppy detect, it flunks it and exits..now... | ...I can certainly check it out, and prolly fix it, even if I hafta | buy a new 3.5inchfloppydrive.... | ... | But...I'd like to have this .pdf documentation, too. | ... | Oh, BTW...I've never owned a DELL.....I mean, the whole thing....my | monitor is a 17inch Dell-branded Triniton, but that's all I have, until | now.....and I've kinda shied away from Dell, 'cause I've heard some | stories about some of their things are pretty propietary....but... | .. | | | ============================================================================ | | 35) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 8:01:00 pm | | gregy> | (cont) ...I just spent about 1hour investigation the support options | available on Dell's site, and I must say, "I'm impressed"....I could | find just about anything I needed...and they seem to be offering their | docs, etc for their systems all the way back to their 386 and 486 | systems... | ... | So, maybe this is a 30buck keeper... | | | ============================================================================ | | 36) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 8:31:33 pm | | ray> | Gregy, | | So what's wrong with this dame? Be specific, the fact that she's | a 'rat does not suffice. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 37) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 9:40:08 pm | | gregy> | Ray....have you even paid attention to what she says and how she says | it....??? | ... | I mean...you know...have you ever had, or seen, one of those little | dolls (or teddy bears, or stuffed puppies) with the pull string on the | back..?? You know, you pull it and it spouts something...?? | ... | Well, go!!!...listen to her, or read the transcript of something she | said in a news conference or interview..... | ... | She's has nothing to say, other than to spew the latest national demon | talking point...most of which are ad hominem bush-bashes.... | ... | Go, find ONE idea (I mean, specific idea) that she (or, for that matter, | any of the demoncrat leaders)....then come back to me and put that | idea up, and we'll discuss it.... | ... | But, I can't be specific about her defaults, other than "brainless" | 'cause she never says anything specific... | ... | She's just one continuous demoncrat talkingpoint.....that's all | ... | As I said...STUPID!!!....or, if she's not, she does a heck of a fine | job of hiding any intelligence she might have... | | | ============================================================================ | | 38) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 10:23:15 pm | | gregy> | Ray....these are the links you need for starting work on SSL | .. | http://www.rahul.net/dkaufman/ | http://wget.sunsite.dk/ | http://www.openssl.org/ | | I'd suggest viewing them in the given order. | | WGET is referenced on Doug's page (and is downloadable from there) | It is of interest, because it is a fairly small DOS program, and it | is compiled with openSSL.. | | The openSSL link, is, of course, that project's site. | | | ============================================================================ | | 39) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 10:43:08 pm | URL | | gregy> | This link will give you an intro-overview of just what went on in | Tuesdays election. | | http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009216 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 40) Fri, Nov 10, 2006 - 11:13:00 pm | URL | | gregy> | http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110009219 | http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110009229 | | | ============================================================================ | | 41) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 12:36:32 am | | Jake> | Gregy, the Dell download is a 621kB WinZip self-extracting file, | that spews out nine HTML files plus 75 GIF images (for a total | of 905kB) to C:\DELL\DOCS\7323D | | I'll upload as HTML etc to: http://arachne.le14.co.uk/gregy/dell | | and re-Zip the files and upload to: | | http://arachne.le14.co.uk/gregy/dell/7323d.zip | | ============================================================================ | | 42) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 2:48:22 am | URL | | Jake> | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Content/displayPrintable.jhtml;jsessionid=QN | | Yeah, name & shame `em! | | | ============================================================================ | | 43) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 2:54:52 pm | | ray> | Gregy, | | Thanks for those links, I've already sent Doug an Email, and we'll | see if he responds. | | Glenn, looks like Lynx sources at lynx.isc.org, no? | | | ============================================================================ | | 44) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 2:57:11 pm | | gregy> | Jake...thanks....I download that...but....that page says that thing is | a .PDF....and, the link even says .PDF....but when you click the link, | obviously it redirects to that .zipped-up HTML.... | ... | Oh, confusion....I guess Dell can't be perfect..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 45) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 2:58:33 pm | | gregy> | However....so far I'm impressed with the level/accessability of the | support they have on their site... | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 46) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 2:59:56 pm | | gregy> | Jake...well, I don't know....I mean...huggin could be classified as a | "hate crime"...... | .... | I mean, that's the way our culture and society seems to be headed... | .... | | ============================================================================ | | 47) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 3:07:53 pm | | glennmcc> | Mail:Re: Nov 10th logic .. 100 stacked boxes Arachne v | file:C:\ARACHNE\MAIL\A556459A.CNM Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:5 | ____________________________________________________________________________ | | | From: ConradChess@aol.com | | To: glennmcc@cisnet.com | | Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:51:45 EST | | Mailer:9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 | | Subject: Re: Nov 10th logic .. 100 stacked boxes | | ============================================================================ | | Hi Glenn .. both solutions correct !! | Regards, Conrad / Nov 11th | | In a message dated 11/10/2006 11:17:16 A.M. Central Standard Time, | glennmcc@cisnet.com writes: | | > Nov 10th logic: | > "Each of 100 stacked boxes is 1/2 the size of the box it sits on. | > If the bottom box is 1 foot high, approximately how tall is the stack?" | | Since the question is worded .. "1/2 the size" ... not "1/2 the height" | | A box 1/2 the size of the previous one would have only one of its 3 | dimensions cut in half. (if all 3 were cut in half, each would have a | size of only 1/8 that of the previous box) | | Assuming that we simply reduce the depth of each successive box by 1/2 | but leave its height and width the same as the the previous box... | we end up with a stack 100ft high. | | Same situation if we reduce the width but leave the depth & height the same | | However, if we reduce the height by 1/2 each time.... | we end up with a stack of just under 2ft high. | | 1 + .5 + .25 + .125 + .0625 + .03125 + .015625 + .0078125...etc...etc... | | We will never be able to achieve the 2nd whole foot no matter how many | 1/2 height boxes we add to the stack. | | And of-course in the 1st 2 situations I outlined... | no matter how many millions of miles high we stack the boxes, | since each one is half the volume of the previous box... | we will never be able to achieve the 2nd whole multiple in total volume. | | -- | Glenn | | | ============================================================================ | | Arachne Insight 4.7;ML, GNUpyright (G)1997-2000 Arachne Labs | (now being maintained by the Arachne Development team) | | ============================================================================ | | 48) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 3:13:01 pm | | glennmcc> | Ray, | | Yes... there is SRC code available at http://lynx.isc.org/ | | Linux SRC code... not DOS :( | | | ============================================================================ | | 49) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 3:14:41 pm | URL | | gregy> | Ray....this one's for you.. | | http://www.opinionjournal.com/weekend/hottopic/?id=110009232 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 50) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 3:16:01 pm | | gregy> | Ah, but Glenn....where do you think Doug Kaufman got HIS source code | from....??? | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 51) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 3:16:03 pm | | glennmcc> | Gregy, | | re:"...that page says that thing is a .PDF....and, the link even says .PDF.. | | What page are you refering to ? | | I ask this because the link you left here on the message board | is obviously an .EXE not a .PDF | | http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/d_gx1p/en/7323D_en.exe | | | ============================================================================ | | 52) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 3:18:27 pm | | glennmcc> | Yes... Doyug started with the Linux code.... but his DOS code does not | seem to be available. | | If we start with the Linux code... we would need to do all of the | conversions from Linux to DOS that Doug has already done. | | And since none of us knows the 1st thing about Linux code.... | it would be next to impossible to do the conversion. | | ============================================================================ | | 53) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 3:26:50 pm | URL | | gregy> | Jake...Ray....coming soon to a neighborhood close to YOU... | ... | And, we'll hold out a while longer....but coming here, also... | ... | http://www.aim.org/guest_column/5001_0_6_0_C/ | | | | ============================================================================ | | 54) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 3:29:06 pm | | gregy> | hello...???....I percieve that I have left an erroneouslink....tsk tsk | ... | However, you guys will remember that you're dealing with "dumb gregy, | the notorious foulup"....and you will be kind...... | ... | I'll check that link, and post the correct one, maybe later today.. | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 55) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 3:51:04 pm | URL | | gregy> | ahhh...here is the correct link.... | | http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ban%5Fgx1/2403e.pdf | | | | ============================================================================ | | 56) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 3:53:17 pm | | gregy> | Just goes to show ya what happens when you don't read wattcha write... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 57) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 4:07:19 pm | | glennmcc> | OK... got the whole 7meg PDF | | Now, what you want done with it ? ;-) | | | ============================================================================ | | 58) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 4:09:08 pm | | glennmcc> | I misplaced the 'keys' to the other place. | | If you could please email them to me again, I'll upload that PDf | to the directory of your choice. | | ============================================================================ | | 59) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 4:19:54 pm | | glennmcc> | And speaking of the other place............. | | Go have a look at the chat board and choose to show today's posts :(((( | | ============================================================================ | | 60) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 4:20:56 pm | | glennmcc> | Now you're gonna hafta rename the file again :((( | | | ============================================================================ | | 61) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 4:42:16 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDVmNzdmMWYyZTY0ZmViN2QzNmNjNTI1MDIzZmJ | | | ============================================================================ | | 62) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 4:49:42 pm | | Jake> | I've split the PDF across 11 files, which are at: | http://arachne.le14.co.uk/gregy/gregy001.zip | thru | http://arachne.le14.co.uk/gregy/gregy011.zip | | The first contains HJSPLIT.EXE and its README to allow | you to reconstruct the file (as GREGY.PDF) once you've | unzipped all the smaller files. | | ============================================================================ | | 63) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 4:50:22 pm | | gregy> | That's the pits....and I think you're right...some fool (hey, we're all | entitled to one, every now and then) must have gone and clicked one of | those spammer links and reregistered the new url... | .. | It'll take about a day for me to remember what/how I fixed it..and get | it done... | .. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 64) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:02:25 pm | | gregy> | NOTICE - TheOtherPlace is temporarily disabled while I get it straightened | out | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 65) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:05:06 pm | | gregy> | Glenn....keys...??? | ... | prj and test.....in reverse order.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 66) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:06:25 pm | | gregy> | oh, and, in /apub/gjf/ which is right beside /apub/glennmcc/ (where you | COULD put it if you wanted to be chauvinistic..).... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 67) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:07:27 pm | | gregy> | Glenn...do you agree with my conclusion that the Dell server was prolly | kicking me off due to slow d/l speed....??? | ... | I take it that you had no problems, since you mentioned none... | .. | | | ============================================================================ | | 68) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:18:14 pm | URL | | gregy> | http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTU3YmI5ODQ5MTUzZTFlZmZlZTFiNGQ3ODBkMjB | | | ============================================================================ | | 69) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:18:30 pm | | glennmcc> | No problems here for me since I'm now on a 3 megabit/sec DSL connection. | | And yes... you're probably right about the Dell server 'kicking' you. | | We already have a similar problem at Yahoo Groups for doing uploads. | | They have a 2min time limit so the biggest file you can upload via | dialup connection is 5kb * 120 sec == about 600kb. | | Now, | | For uploading that PDF | | Is this the correct address ? | | ftp://the_other_place/apub/gjf/2403e.pdf | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 70) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:23:59 pm | | glennmcc> | As to.... | | It'll take about a day for me to remember what/how I fixed it..and get | it done... | | All you did was change the filename from ????.pl to ?????.pl so that | clicking the link issued and error page and we simply append the 5th | character to the filename to gain access. | | So... all you need to do is change the filename again. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 71) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:25:06 pm | | gregy> | yes....and...as you drill down thru /apub/ you'll see your own dir | right there.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 72) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:30:44 pm | | gregy> | nope...not QUITE that simple....almost...but...I gotta change the | filename in one of the files, so that it refers back to it...otherwise | it don't work.... | ....and.... | I gotta remember which file, and whereat in it..... | .. | So, it'll be at least a few hours, or so.... | ... | IDEA....I'm gonna modify/clone a few files with alternate filenames | ...then...whenever this happens...I can quickly "renameout" the file | that's being spammed, and cautiously post the new variant of the | filename that's now being used... | ...at least...that'll cut down on the "fixit time".... | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 73) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:33:33 pm | | Jake> | Re #62 | | I'll go ahead and delete, see if I care... | | ============================================================================ | | 74) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:33:48 pm | | Jake> | I'm counting... | | ============================================================================ | | 75) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:38:58 pm | | glennmcc> | Just like Prego ..... it's in there. | | -rw-r--r-- 1 arachne www 7487526 Nov 11 19:35 2403e.pdf | | | ============================================================================ | | 76) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 5:41:39 pm | | glennmcc> | Jake, | | With this comment.... | | "That's the pits...." | | Gregy was not referring to your split-up PDF. | | He was referring to my post about the SPAMMER being back at the other place. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 77) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:04:11 pm | | gregy> | Jake....Re: #62....somewhere back in there, I thanked you for doing | that...and said I'd get around to downloading it, prolly tonight.. | ... | "That's the pits" was, indeed, as Glenn said....my comment about his | notifying me that TheOtherPlace had been spammed, again.... | ... | So, please leave it there, so I can go get it... | ... | and... | ... | Glenn....thankyu, thankyu.....I'll prolly go get that 7Mbytes "sometime | soon"...... | | | ============================================================================ | | 78) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:04:20 pm | | glennmcc> | There... I won't misplace the 'keys' again. | | Saved it all into an .ACF | | L:\arachne\o*.acf Arachne v | file:o*.acf Sat, 11 Nov 2006 19:5 | ____________________________________________________________________________ | | Arachne Profiles | ============================================================================ | Enable icons | ============================================================================ | Path: L:\arachne | Volume: MS-RAMDRIVE | Mask: o*.acf | Free space: 95660 KB | ============================================================================ | \\ | L:\ | ..\ | cache\ | doc\ | examples\ | oops\ | system\ | acf.bak\ | asf.bak\ | L:\ | otherplc.acf (5501 bytes) | | ============================================================================ | (9 items listed) | This file generated by WWWman 1.91;ML.r1 | (now being maintained by the Arachne Development team) | | | ============================================================================ | | 79) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:05:57 pm | | glennmcc> | And yes... | | I've already saved a copy on the HDD instead of the RamDrive | | ============================================================================ | | 80) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:07:56 pm | | glennmcc> | And yes.... you are quite welcome... glad to be of service. :)) | | BTW, | | You really _do_ need to look into getting a 3 meg DSL connections. | | I just LOVE this speed I have now. :)))) | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 81) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:14:10 pm | | gregy> | Jake....Re: 41....got that file....thanks....(I mean, how long could it | take to d/l only 610Kbytes.......) | ... | FWIW...I also had that .EXE winselfextractor....and I just ran pkunzip | on it...and....voila..!!!....it also coughed out those HTML files and | .GIFs..... | ... | So, thanks for the assist.....and sorry for the confusion... | ... | BTW....on TOP, in /apub/ we have: | /apub/gjf/ | /apub/glennmcc/ | /apub/jjy/ | | So, you (as you always have been) are free to use that as an alternate | "stash" site, too...... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 82) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:23:26 pm | | gregy> | really, Glenn....I'm agin it......why..?? because it's all under | then stupid control of my stupid phone company, QWEST....that's why.. | ... | Here in this trailer court where I moved 3 1/2 years ago, we're down in | kinda a half-bowl....with a large bluff to our south-and-west, which | blocks me from getting my wideband connection from my local Triangle | Telephone Coop.....and to the east, large trees block my from getting | my broadband from my previous ISP (who sold their dialups to ONEWEST | but kept their broadband)....and.....even my ONEWEST ISP and Triangle | Tel offer ADSL....but...they both swear AT that stupid QWEST, which | has the localphone monoply, here inside Havre city limits.... | ... | If I move from here (which I'm looking around to do)...I will be opened | up to: | 1. a broadband line-of-sight connection to either TTC or STELLAR (my old | ISP)... | 2. an ADSL connection from TTC | 3. an ADSL connection directly from ONEWEST.. | ... | ...but...I currently am absoLUTely not gonna get an ADSL from QWEST.. | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 83) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:29:57 pm | | gregy> | Oh, Glenn....I'm noticing something that I've seen but failed to really | notice, before... | .. | It used to be that my old STELLAR dialup would just go ahead and talk | to my 56K modem and negotiate for 56K and everything went smooth...but | .. | Now, my download speeds seem to be all down around 28K, including my | FTP connections.... | Now....I'm thinking my modems are not getting initialized for the V90 | 56K compression/speed....and I need to do that.... | ... | I am using ATZ in my .ACF at INIT variable.... | ... | I noticed, sometimeago, that you were talking about that, somewhere, | and you suggested an alternate INIT string... | .. | My original external modem is a PHOEBE which seems to be totally Hayes | compatible...and this internal ISA modem is a USRobotics Sportster V90 | ...so that should, also be Hayes compatible.. | ... | Could you give your suggested INIT string, again....??? | ... | I promise not to forget it (or lose it)..for...hmmmm....at least one | night.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 84) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:35:19 pm | | glennmcc> | My favorite Init string.... | | at&fs7=90s11=50 | | | ============================================================================ | | 85) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:36:31 pm | | glennmcc> | And then in arachne.cfg ........ | | Speed 115200 | | | ============================================================================ | | 86) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:37:49 pm | | glennmcc> | Those choices give me a consistant 5.0 to 5.5 kb/sec throughput | | ============================================================================ | | 87) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:41:16 pm | | glennmcc> | As opposed to the 50kb/sec on this DSL connection with DOS/Arachne | | In Linux..... 300kb/sec | | We're still trying to figure-out how to get DOS/Arachne upto 'full speed'. | | But even tho it ain't 'full speed'...... | 10 times dialup speed sure ain't nuttin' to sneeze at. | | | ============================================================================ | | 88) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 6:42:36 pm | | glennmcc> | Every once in a while, I get 75 or 80 kb/sec with Arachne. | | ============================================================================ | | 89) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 9:10:02 pm | | gregy> | okay....thanks...I'll try those: | that is: | A T & F S 7 = 9 0 S 1 1 = 5 0 | | ay tee and eff ess seven equals nine zero ess one one equals five zero | ... | ..and..it doesn't matter if those in in CAPS or small letters...??? | ... | ALSO...does any of those variables turn SPEAKERS OFF....??? because | I want to hear my dialup and negotiation... | ... | OH, and I've also had 115200 in my .ACFs ever since I transferred over | to this P133 box....on my 486, with those unbuffered 16450 serial ports, | I didn't seem to get the best performance at 115200, so I had it down | at 57600... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 90) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 9:21:50 pm | | glennmcc> | &f == set to 'factory default' | | s7=90 == 90 carrier detect time-out | | s11=50 == 50ms delay between tones during dialing (superfast button finger) | | So-long-as the 'factory default' settings do not disable the speaker... | you'll be able to hear the dialing/connecting/handshaking | | | ============================================================================ | | 91) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 9:37:33 pm | | gregy> | gee, that was a quick response from you.... | ... | And...I just went and answered my own questions: | No, it doesn't matter if that string is CAPS or SMALLS | No, nothing in that string disables my speakers.. | Yes, I found that it dials "real fast" using that s11=50 | (but it connected just fine and began negotiations okay) | No, it would negotiate (and sounded "as usual") but would NOT load the | packet driver. | So...what I did, to try to see what was doing what: | 1. I deleted s11=50, and it went back to normal speed dialup, but still | would not load the packet driver. | 2. I deleted s7=90 and it still negotiated okay, but would still NOT | load the packet driver. | 3. I went back to my normal init string "ATZ" and that negotiated fine | and loaded the packet driver... | ... | So, I'm gonna add the s7=90 to the ATZ and see how that does.... | I seem to remember back when I first began using Arachne, I had this | problem, and had to go to that ATZ string...but...maybe the | addition of s7=90 will turn my V90 compression (56K speed) on... | | | ============================================================================ | | 92) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 9:45:02 pm | | gregy> | well.... | ATZS7=90 negotiated fine AND loaded the packet driver....so...I'm here | with a connection made with that string.... | ...so... | .. | Now to go back and do some re-downloading to see what my NOW speed is | .... | ... | FWIW....I stopwatch-timed that 7Mbyte download from TOP, plus a 1.44M | and a 2.5Mbytes download from the IBM servers.....all three FTP (which | is the fastest download mode)...and they all ran: | 3146-3186bytes/sec....so...that showed me two things: | 1. my connections to Boulder, CO and Somewhere, CT are comparable, and | the TOP FTPserver is comparable in quality to the IBM FTPserver... | ... | ...so...now to go check this new setting.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 93) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 10:29:56 pm | | gregy> | Yes...very interesting..... | RESULTS: | A. I went back to that IBM FTPserver and redownload that 1472145byte | disk image. The original (without V90) was 7:48 min:sec, the second | time (with V90) was 7:50 min:sec ....so those are the same (2 sec. is | "same") with slight variation for path and server speed. | B. I went back to the Dell site and redownloaded that 7Mbyte .pdf file | ...remember this is an HTTPdownload...and Arachne's byte/sec counter | started out about 3400-3600, ran up to max 4310, then settled down down | around 3300, then slowly drifted down to around 3190 (never went below | 3150)....and I got 2,260,516bytes down, this time, before the Dellserver | kicked my off, whereas, the max at the slower speed (without V90) was | 1,370,000 all times I tried it... | ... | ALSO....there's a noticeable increase in SitePageDelivery....I'd say | that I'm now getting pages delivered at around 43-50Kbps....that's just | my sorta knowledgeable comparison...there's no way I can measure those | short PageDownloads....but...my eyeballs say it's about double what I | was getting | | | | ============================================================================ | | 94) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 10:34:32 pm | | gregy> | So, FTP downloads show "SAMEspeed"...while HTTP downloads are about | 1000bytes/sec faster, and plain old PageDownloads are not measureable | but look quite a bit faster....and....this includes the delivery of the | DirectoryPages from the FTPserver... | ... | So, thanks for that stringhint...and I think this new ATZS7=90 is | a keeper.... | ... | Actually, now that I've been forced into fiddling/messing with this, | you know I'm gonna have to to grab the instruction manual for the whole | Hayes-compatible CommandSet....just so I can "know-it-all"... | | | ============================================================================ | | 95) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 11:36:39 pm | | gregy> | Yes...just did a quick tour thru YahooGroups (had to approve a new | member for one group)...and email downloads, etc, etc.. | .. | And...I can truely say that that ATZS7=90 InitString is a keeper... | ... | It truely turns my V90 speed on, and everything HTTP is faster.. | .. | | | ============================================================================ | | 96) Sat, Nov 11, 2006 - 11:58:00 pm | | gregy> | ah..yes....and already in my first couple hits from google, I'm seeing | commands for switching to commandline query of the modem, while still | maintaining the data connection....and...either poking the status | registers, or reading from them....plus querying the modem for modem | status info... | .. | These things lead me to reflect that somewhere, somewhen, I saw a way | for software (i.e. Arachne) to simply determine if the modem had | "Carrier Detect" ....if it didn't, the software could redial and then | send the message that was blocked by the loss of carrrier.... | ... | So, let me see what else I can find out... | .. | BTW, Glenn....those "&" commands are extended...and the "Z" is a | SoftwareReset for my modem.. | .. | I'm wondering why BOTH my PhoebeExternal and my USRoboticInternal need | that...and choke on your &command.... | ...??? | .. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 97) Sun, Nov 12, 2006 - 1:46:57 pm | | glennmcc> | The addition of S7=90 could not possibly have any effect on speed nor on | V90 no V90 | | All S7=nn does is indicate how many second to wait for a carrier before | 'giving up' and hanging up. | | S7=90 simply waits 90 seconds before giving up. | | --- clipped from........... | http://nemesis.lonestar.org/reference/telecom/modems/at/summary-at.html | ----- | | |------------|----------|Sets the S7 register to the value 90. In modems---- | | | |compatible with EIA-602, the S7 register | | | |specifies how long the modem is willing to remain | | | |off-hook after dialing a number and before the | | | |modem gives up waiting for answer carrier from | |S7=90 |Command |the called modem to be detected. If the called | | | |modem is not "heard" in specified number of | | | |seconds, the calling modem is to go back on-hook | | | |and report an error to the DTE. The sequence " | | | |S7=90" is a complete command and can be issued on | | | |its own command line, eg ATS7=90[ENTER]. | | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 98) Sun, Nov 12, 2006 - 1:52:50 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | The '&F' command is about 1/4 of the way down on this page...... | | http://nemesis.lonestar.org/reference/telecom/modems/at/ampersand-at.html | | | ============================================================================ | | 99) Sun, Nov 12, 2006 - 8:11:38 pm | | gregy> | hey....something has changed, radically....I really mean...my eyes are | NOT deceiving me.....and Arachne's download meter is NOT lying to me | now, and telling me the truth before.... | ... | I mean...I actually, truely, saw some download speedup from using that | new InitString... | ... | So, now I gotta go find out WHY??? that happened.... | ... | yes...I googled and found a whole bunch of Hayes-compatible AT Command | Set pages....I haven't studied them, yet....but I will... | ... | So, what do YOU figure might be the reason for my speedup....??? | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 100) Sun, Nov 12, 2006 - 8:32:33 pm | | gregy> | And...SportsFans....Re: Dell OptiPlex GX1, 450MHz...... | ... | hmmmm....it was flaking out on the P.O.S.T. with a "Drive 1 floppy not | detected" error....I fiddled with it, and couldn't seem to get any | change (physically checking/reseating cables, etc). | ... | And, it seemed to refuse to go into the SETUP Program when I pressed F2 | even though it said it was "Entering SETUP"......but it just sat there | ... | So, one of the times I was trying to boot it.....after pressing F2, I | went to get some coffee.... | ... | he he....voila..!!!...when I came back, it was in SETUP....and THEN I | could see what was wrong with the thing.. | .. | Whoever pawned it...first went into the SETUP and dinked up all the | settings....wrong type floppies, two floppies (there's only one), two | HDDs (only 1), etc, etc.... | ... | So, I changed what I could see was buggered, hit ESC and....got the | horrible shock of my life.....the jerk had a F*** YOU splash screen on | and that was bad enough....but...even worse....guess what booted...??? | ... | .... | Windows-ME.....and I swore years ago, I'd NEVER boot that freak.... | .. | So, here I was booting it....and as it finished booting, it popped up | the Login/Password dialog...which I got around...then...finished boot | and autoran that stupid WindowsMoney...and I couldn't get rid of it, | because the mouse wasn't working.... | ... | And, after KeyPressing around into the settings, and got to mouse, it | tells me that "This device is not working, because Windows cannot find | its driver, vmouse.vxd. Get your Windows CD and install it"...yada, | yada... | .. | Hey....??? I don't have an ME CD...nearest I've got is a Win98 (not SE) | ...and I don't want this polution on there, anyway... | ... | So, I shut it down... | ... | Then I popped a floppy disk into the drive (now working, BTW) and let | 'er rip... | ... | I hafta say....it boots DRDOS 6.0 reeeaaaalllllll fine..... | ... | So, next thing is to boot from OS/2 floppy with PartitionMagic, wipe | that drive, partition it, and load some REAL operating systems on it, | beginning with OpDOS 7.01..... | ... | Don't know just how well everything else in that new box is working (it | seemed to POST okay, and WinME booted alright) but it looks like I've | sorta got a wiener on my hands... | ... | Dell OptiPlex GX1 | PIII 450MHz, 192MbyteRAM | 8.2Gbyte HDD | Builtin Sound/Video/Ethernet | .. | FirstNationalPawn....$30.00 | ... | Oh, and it came with a keyboard, mouse, and little 14ince Samsung | Monitor. | | The monitor/keyboard/mouse will go out in storage as a "kids' spare" | and I'll hook this box into my KVM which which runs my ALPSpad keyboard | mouse combo, into my Dell-branded 17inch Trinitron... | ... | Once I get it hooked to my external Phoebe V90 modem, it should really | rock... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 101) Sun, Nov 12, 2006 - 8:55:13 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=4FAPMYOIDJ5OVQFIQMFSFG | | | ============================================================================ | | 102) Sun, Nov 12, 2006 - 9:26:29 pm | | gregy> | hmmmm...Glenn....ah....your previous | | | ============================================================================ | | 103) Sun, Nov 12, 2006 - 9:33:51 pm | | gregy> | Glenn...so....as I said.... the "&F=factorydefault" makes my internal | USRobotics V90 modem NOT load the packet driver....it diales and I hear | the negotiation, seems normal, but, then it returns "packet driver not | loaded, etc"... | ... | So, my question still remains.....do you know how to turn on the V90 | compression in my USRobotics internal modem.... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 104) Sun, Nov 12, 2006 - 9:37:54 pm | | gregy> | And...something interesting has happened tonight....that very real speed | increase that I got last night, after trying your InitString and then | editing it to give me that ATZs7=90, that real speed increase is now | gone....GO NEE..... | ...hmmmm | ... | So, maybe I first need to run the AT&fs=90...accept the "PacketDriver | NotLoaded"...then redial with the ATZs=90 InitString, in order to get | that modem into the V90 mode initially.... | ... | hmmmm...it's worth a try.. | ... | bbl | | | ============================================================================ | | 105) Sun, Nov 12, 2006 - 9:58:45 pm | | gregy> | nope....can't seem to get any speed increase by | 1. First dialup using AT&Fs7=90, getting "Packet not loaded" error | 2. Second dialup using ATZs7=90, getting a correct packet load and | then surfing some common sites... | ... | So, now I'm mistified about where that noticeable speedup last night | came from. I wasn't dreaming it....witness that increase in download | speed from the Dell site, and the fact that the DellServer let me get | about 1Mbyte more downloaded before it dropped my download connection. | ... | hmmmm....needs more investigation. | ... | ..and...I'm gonna have to go to pages specific to the USRobotics V90 | Sportster Modem, to see what commands turn the V90 compression on... | .. | I mean....something is NOT working right on this 56K dialup connection. | ... | FTP download speeds of only 3150bytes/sec aren't ever up to the 33.6K | standard of "Lowspeed Connection".... | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 106) Sun, Nov 12, 2006 - 10:06:47 pm | URL | | gregy> | Zounds...!!! First is vas der sqvirrels.... | ...now ZIS..!!! | | Be fearful, very fearful | | http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/12/D8LBUGCO0.html | | | | ============================================================================ | | 107) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 10:39:04 am | | Eric> | Re: #106 - Deer attack | | Gregy, | Nothing new about deer attacks. It is just | unusual that the victim died. My little brother | was attacked by a deer while he stood next to me | in Jasper, B.C., CA back in the late '40's. He | was only about 3 yrs old. We were feeding the deer | cookies or crackers. My brother ran out of crackers | so the deer pushed him over and started to trample | him. My father ran up and grabbed the deer and flung | it away. My dad only stood about 5ft 8in but you didn't | want to get him mad. Especially, you didn't want to | threaten one of his sons. We were much more careful | around deer after that. In general, deer are dangerous | because they are relatively big and don't reason too well. | And they have sharp hooves. | | ============================================================================ | | 108) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 5:38:47 pm | | ray> | Canuck deer probably just didn't trust you Yanks. Heck, most times | they see a Yank, he's got a very big gun and wants to put their | head on his den wall. | | Hey Gregy, Udo and Joe are squabling over the merits of Yahoo | as a mailing list and file archieve and I can't help but thinking | how nice it would be if AVA could solve all our problems by being | all of that and more. Enough idle politics, back to work soldier ;-) | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 109) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 8:59:48 pm | | gregy> | Ray....looks like your BC Lions are headed to the Grey Cup.... | ... | I'd kinda like it noted that OurMontanaBoy Dave had a small wee part | in achieving that..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 110) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 9:02:35 pm | | gregy> | Re: suitability of YahooGroups.....hmmmm....AVA couldn't sub for | mailing list....but...for FileStore....hmmmm...I think I could set up | some dedicated directories. | ... | I'll go read the posts on Yahoo and see what I can suggest.....as far | as I am concerned...just the mailing list part of YahooGroups seems to | work okay for most purposes....it's the fileupload problems that are | now causing trouble... | ... | Isn't that right...??? | | | ============================================================================ | | 111) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 9:04:17 pm | | gregy> | Re: deer....he he....you both (Eric and Ray) don't really think that I, | a MontanaBoy from infancy, doesn't know alllll about deer attacks..??? | ... | ... | But, after the squirrels...I thought it was a good hit, for now... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 112) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 9:36:34 pm | | gregy> | Ray...I checked the last 20 messages on the Arachne-Development Group | and didn't see any hassle going on about using the Group.... | ... | Where are the messages/emails...so I can see what's being argued about | and try to decide if/what I might offer as a solution(s)... | .. | | | ============================================================================ | | 113) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 9:48:21 pm | | ray> | Ah, that's because Udo won't or can't use it. We've been having | a 'private fight' as the Irish would say. But you're right the | file storage issue is the biggie -- but it sure would be nice | if you could make/find/steal/link to/ some nice group for us | that would work for everyone and (as I keep dreaming) it would | all be available at one place. Udo has trouble with AD, I can't | use freelist ... it's a bitch. | | | ============================================================================ | | 114) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 9:48:55 pm | | gregy> | Glenn.....that Dell OptiPlex originally came with an 8.2Gbyte HDD...now | the AUTOdetect shows a 40Gbyte....and....of course....WinME hadda muck | the drive specs up when it was installed... | ... | I'm sorting that out... | ... | I've gotta get OpDOS 7.01 onto a BOOTfloppy, with utils, and go in and | unmess that disk... | ... | Another thing....is your OpDOS 7.01 seeing all of those gigantic (10+ | Gbyte) drives you are using on your new P4....??? | ... | So far, I wiped that garbage OFF and am trying to recover from it's | presence... | .. | So far, I have gotten it to boot DRDOS6.0 from A: and checked the | mouse (works), and FDISKed/FORMATTED/SYSed a small (20Mbyte) C: | partition....and gotten it to boot from C:\>....so...progress it being | made.... | ... | I'm going to now hook it up to my KVMswitch...the stupid keyboard that | came with it is a ...you guessed it....Mz$loth thingee, you know, that | one that is "ergonomic" and splits the toprow number keys between 6 and | 7 instead of the normal 5 and 6 (leave it to them to "adopt and extend" | even that).... | ...and that 14inch monitor is alright, but too small for my normal use, | and it's sitting off to the side, instead of right in from of me....and | I never use a mouse....just the GlidepointPad on my ALPS keyboard...so | ... | it's gotta on my KVM...now that I've found that it's a likely candidate | for my future use... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 115) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 9:52:05 pm | | gregy> | Well...Ray...we definitely DO have file storage area on AVA....and I'll | check into the possibility of there being a "mailingList" capability | there, too....I don't know...they keep adding functionality that I can't | or don't want to use....but....I'm sure we've got storage enough... | ... | I mean...I think we're up to 10Gbytes available.... | ... | I'll check in the next couple days... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 116) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 9:57:02 pm | | gregy> | As for "group"...another...I think you're really talking about a usefull | MailingList....right...?? | ... | I mean...you can't use Freelist....I won't...some can't use Coollist.. | or won't... | ... | So, are you suggesting we set up another mailing list just for the | Arachne-Development team....??? | ... | I'm not sure I'd be too intensely eager to do that.... | .. | I mean....I'd rather set up another of these message boards, just for | those Developers....and keep it quiet from everyone else...and let | them thrash things out there.. | ... | Another MailingList sorta seems to me to be "more of the same that has | not suited anyone/everyone"....so...just more hassle down the road.. | ... | But, I'm opened for suggestions/discussion. | | | ============================================================================ | | 117) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 9:59:37 pm | | gregy> | Ray... | "Canuck deer probably just didn't trust you Yanks. Heck, most times.." | ... | ..but...but...they were FEEDing him....!!! Doesn't THAT count for | sumpin....???? | ... | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 118) Mon, Nov 13, 2006 - 10:00:53 pm | | gregy> | Oh, and Glenn....what are you using to FDISK (partition) and FORMAT | your giga-gantic drives...??? | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 119) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 4:59:36 am | | Eric> | Gregy, I think you missed Ray's meaning concerning | shelling out of Arachne. He isn't saying that the | abiliy to shell out isn't useful. He is saying that | because of the way Arachne works that ALT-X is not | that different from ALT-E. Arachne is shut down in | both cases and is really restarted in both cases. | Arachne is removed from memory in both cases and | returned to memory in both cases on restart. The | only big difference is with ALT-E a second command.com | is loaded or a shell is opened. Ray's is more asking | the question, as I see it, "What advantage is there | to opening a shell?" In some cases some programs | that one may wish to run work better if they are | not run in a shell. Don't ask me why but I know it's | a fact. In some cases if Arachne also starts APMs | when started, like I do with telnet, then ALT-E | would be faster than ALT-X on restart. | | ============================================================================ | | 120) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 5:15:13 am | | Eric> | I am not sure that all versions of Arachne behave | the same with ALT-X. In fact based on my memory, | I think it has varied several times over the years. | Right now, when I am connected with 190JG, I can | ALT-X or ALT-E and Arachne seems to behave the | same. Alt-X doesn't disturb the modem connection | and nothing else seems to be different when I ALT-X | and restart from when I ALT-E and restart. Internally, | the only difference is that before restarting from | an ALT-E, one has to close the shell first with the | EXIT command. Arachne itself is restarted with the | "arachne" command which runs the arachne.bat file. | If Arachne is hung-up before ALT-X then she behaves | differently when restarted, but as long as no hangup | occurs she behaves very similarly. | | | ============================================================================ | | 121) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 5:20:38 am | | Eric> | By the way, I am bringing this up here to avoid | a squabble with anyone on the lists. Some there | seem to be in an argumentive mood rather than | desiring constructive discussion. I have no | desire to squabble. | | ============================================================================ | | 122) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 5:31:26 am | | Eric> | By the way, I couldn't survive if I couldn't | leave Arachne and return to her like she | works. It is essential behavior. | | ============================================================================ | | 123) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 11:50:36 am | URL | | Jake> | Top-notch research from Cincinnati: | | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/14/unfortunate_allergy/ | | | ============================================================================ | | 124) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 12:57:15 pm | | ray> | Good to know the cure is more exposure to the alergen ... I wonder | if that would work with headaches? | | | ============================================================================ | | 125) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 1:23:40 pm | | ray> | Gregy, | | Well, as you yourself said, there are problems with the other | lists right? And AVA would be the natural place to host a list | because AVA will be our 'one stop shopping' site for all Arachne | needs, right? And it's politicaly neutral, I mean Joe is partial | to Yahoo 'cause he set it up, Udo refuses to use it, I can't use | Freelist, etc. so ... AVA becomes something everyone can agree | on, or that's how I'd like it anyway. Sheesh the boards would be | right there, the archieves of the list right there ... who | wouldn't use it? | | | ============================================================================ | | 126) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 3:51:02 pm | | ray> | But then again, those are my dad's initials, so maybe I'm biased ;-) | | | | ============================================================================ | | 127) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 4:45:56 pm | | glennmcc> | Gregy, | | Since DOS fdisk can only make one FAT16 primary partition..... | | Linux fdisk is all I've used for about 4 or 5 years now. | | ============================================================================ | | 128) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 4:56:08 pm | | glennmcc> | Why I like Alt+E | | 1) Alt+E keeps me in the Arachne_main drive:\dir | 2) a simple 'exit' brings me right back where I was | 3) unlike Alt+X ... Alt+E does not finish running the remainder of the | commands in arachne.bat and then the remainder of the commands in my | batch file used for starting Arachne. | | --- arr.bat --- | @echo off | IF "%ARA%"=="" GOTO ARANO | if "%1"=="" goto err | C: | CD\ | C:\EMSDSK\XMSDSK 100000 l: /c1 %4 | copy c:\command.com l:\ | IF NOT EXIST l:\command.com goto delmail | set comspec=l:\command.com | md l:\temp | set temp=l:\temp | IF NOT EXIST l:\ARACHNE\ARACHNE.BAT PKUNZIP -d e:\ARACHNE\!AR%1.ZIP l:\ | PKUNZIP -d -o e:\ARACHNE\MAIL\!AR!MDIR.ZIP c:\ | if "%1"=="mail" PKUNZIP -d -o E:\ARACHNE\MAIL\!AR!MAIL.ZIP c:\ | l: | CD \ARACHNE | IF EXIST PPP.LOG CALL ARACHNE.BAT -r %2 | IF NOT EXIST PPP.LOG CALL ARACHNE.BAT %2 | | rem Alt+X completes arachne.bat and deletes all of the files in | rem %temp%\arachne.tmp and removes the arachne.tmp subdir | rem and then continues ARR.BAT from here to the end..... | | C: | :delmail | if not "%3"=="/y" goto confirm | del l:\arachne\!*.* | goto xc | :confirm | ? del l:\arachne\!*.* | :xc | C: | set comspec=c:\command.com | set temp=c:\temp | if %cdrom%=="loaded" c:\opendos\nwcache.exe 7670 1024 /lend=on /delay=on /mu | goto end | :err | echo To run !ar150b2.zip --- arrm 150b2(enter) | pause | dir e:\arachne\!ar*.zip /p | pause | :end | if not "%3"=="/n" call c:\1batch\scanmail.bat | if "%5"=="/killppp" call c:\1batch\killppp.bat | if not "%3"=="/n" goto scandone | men.bat | :scandone | _______________ | | ============================================================================ | | 129) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 5:34:36 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | http://rayandrews0.tripod.com/index.htm updated. | | | ============================================================================ | | 130) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 6:11:48 pm | | ray> | Ok, Alt+E runs through the .bat differently but that still begs | the question, why the second shell? We could have Alt+E as | a 'quick return' sort of thing but it seems to me the secondary | shell insn't needed for that. I'm critiquing the *method* | not the usefulness, if you get me. | | | ============================================================================ | | 131) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 6:12:05 pm | | ray> | Tx for update. | | | ============================================================================ | | 132) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 6:22:48 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, For all those reasons and some I haven't | thought of the exit to shell (ALT-E) is important | to have as an option. | | I have also customized a batch file to delete | environment variables and some other things | that I don't remember...BUT...I have a option | menu that gives me the option to skip/abort | the batch file on ALT-X if I wish or to | re-enter Arachne or to do a total shutdown | and clear the environment. However, with all | this testing I find I usually just start | Arachne with the arachne command or my simple | batch file below: | | x.bat | | arachne | exit | | end x.bat | | so "X" + ENTER starts her and ALT-X leaves her | or ALT-E goes to shell and "X" returns me to | Arachne. In other words, any time I'm at a DOS | prompt and press "X" + ENTER then Arachne starts. | | | ============================================================================ | | 133) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 6:27:27 pm | | Eric> | Ray, Yes, the shell is needed for that... | otherwise it limits how Arachne can be run | from a batch file. | | ============================================================================ | | 134) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 6:37:47 pm | | Eric> | Re: #132 | | OOOppss, error.... I switched commands in my | batch file X.bat....."exit" should precede | "arachne" as below: | | :start x.bat | | exit | arachne | | :end x.bat | | ============================================================================ | | 135) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 8:11:53 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"why the second shell?" | | To prevent the remainder of Arachne.bat and the remainder of arr.bat | from being run. | | Do you now of some other method that this can be accomplished without | running a second copy of %comspec% ? | | If so... give it a try.... let us know what you come up with. :) | | | ============================================================================ | | 136) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 8:56:45 pm | | ray> | Hmmmm, seems to me the .bats execution is controled simply via the | "-r" switch or it's absence. So your saying the shell alters that. | How? The dgi quits Arachne, runs 'dosshell.bat' the reruns | arachne.bat to hmmmm, gotta look at this again. | | | ============================================================================ | | 137) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 9:20:42 pm | | gregy> | Ray...as I said....we have the storage on AVA....we do NOT have a | mailing list available there. | ... | The only thing we could substitute for the mailing list would be another | message board, identical to this one/adev/ctst/ boards..... | ... | Udo and Joe don't use the existing ADEV message board, here, so what | makes you think they'll agree to/wanna use a new ADEV board set up on | the AVA.....????? | | | ============================================================================ | | 138) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 9:29:36 pm | | gregy> | Ray...the .BAT.....ummmm.....you almost "have" it...but...consider it | a "bonus" instead of a bug, that ALT-E "shells-out" to a new COMMAND.COM | instead of completely dropping Arachne.... | ... | And...no...you are NOT correct...."shelling-out" does NOT "remove | Arachne" from memory...only sort of.....what it does is put "shell-out" | addresses and stack contents from Arachne on the DOS/BIOS stack, then | load another copy of COMMAND.COM into the program space, run it (and | any commands that you tell COMMAND.COM to run), then when you get done, | you type EXIT and that secondary COMMAND.COM grabs and replaces the | previously stacked linkaddresses and register contents, etc and RETURNS | ...and.....voila...!!! Arachne is reloaded WITH the SAME EVERYTHING | that was there when you ALT-Eed.....whereas, when you ALT-X...you'll | play hell with getting exactly back to where you were in Arachne... | ...unless you're an old tweaker, as I am.........but...why should | I have to put up with that bother.....just ALT-E...then EXIT...and all's | fine... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 139) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 9:32:56 pm | | gregy> | Eric....you keep suggesting "FreeDOS" to me, and posting links, etc.. | .. | So, with this new Dell, I'm trying everything I can to try to recover | that disk that WinME messed up.... | ... | So, OS/2 won't touch it...says it's munged....OpDOS FDISK "seems to | work"...but...partitioning/formatting, even installing...and OS/2 still | says it's munged... | .. | So, I'm willing to try just about anything...I'm even gonna try a W98 | Rescue diskette... | ... | But, the thought came to me, that maybe the FreeDOS stuff might be worth | trying... | | | ============================================================================ | | 140) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 9:46:46 pm | | gregy> | So...I google and get the links...and go there | ... | My experience: | 1. I find no diskimages, or package with diskimages, available.. | 2. I find a thing FDFLOPPY.IMG claiming to be a bootimage so that I | don't have to BOOTCD...and I download that. | 3. I find a FDBASECD.7Z, which they say is zipped with a "superior" | compression algorithm. I download that (6Mbytes), and pkunzip it...it | says "no files found'...so it's incompatible... | 4. I take their links to d/l 7-ZIP program. I find that it is only for | UNIX.!!!!...WIN32(aka whingedoze), BeOS, ETCand garbage!!!)..so that's | a waste of time. | 5. I google some more, and come up with a link to "ripcord" which is | the place where DOS Diskimages are supposed to reside....sure...there's | beta9 available, and the current, stable official release Version 1.0 | is NOT available....so, I download 3 each 1.44 floppy images...IMG files | ... | 6. I DISKCOPY B9BOOT01.IMG a: and it barfs with "corrupt, not | a proper image, etc" error....so I return to ripcord... | 7. I find that ripcord "says" drdos diskcopy works...but he recommends | "rawrite" and numerous other "special interest" garbage works | I'll-really-impress-you-guys-with-what-a-genius-geek-I-am type programs. | I download rawrite, rawrite2 and rawrite3... | 8. RAWRITE works...it writes that unwriteable .IMG file straight to my | A:\> floppy... | ... | So, my observations are: (cont) | | | ============================================================================ | | 141) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 9:57:07 pm | | gregy> | 1. How did MiSerableDOS take the world by storm...??? With all the | cutthroat marketing, etc...it still had ONE thing going for it...it was | easily, cheaply available in DISKETTE form... | 2. Every little joelittlepeon could, somehow, manage to install it, | using readily available tools, equipment. | 3. ALL the files available were easily accessible and usable using the | standard tools (e.g. DISKCOPY, PKUNZIP, etc) that were already included | in MSDOS... | 4. Now, in FreeDOS..I'm running into all kinds of "UNIX-wannabe-geek" | nonstandard, substandard stuff, which I'm supposed to seek, download, | and fumble into use. | 5. Once I got the B9BOOT01.IMG onto a floppy...I rebooted with floppy | in the drive...and she came up....AND AWAY SHE WENT...!!!!....by DAMN | she was gonna install...!!! | 6. By the time I relized what the stupid thing was doing, and got it | stopped, it had managed to overwrite my OpDOS boot files on my C: drive | ... | 7. This is "progress"...??? | ... | 8. These guys are not adults, and are not even serious | children...!!!!!! | | | | ============================================================================ | | 142) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 9:59:06 pm | | ray> | Gregy, | | Sorry you are wrong about the shell. Take it from a programmer, | Arachne does not do any such things when Alt+Eing, she is gone | from memory totaly, not one byte remains, just the running | .bat file which ends with 'arachne.bat' and thus restarts her. | That's why I view the thing as a bit fraudulent. Hey, just | kicking it around, I'm not going to change anything there. | | | ============================================================================ | | 143) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 11:39:40 pm | | gregy> | no..Ray...when ALT-Eing, NOTHING is "ends"ing with 'arachne.bat'.. | ..that .BAT is STILL running under the original shell=COMMAND.COM... | ... | and YOU can take THAT from a DOS Assembly Programmer..... | ... | besides, just to add more impressive credentials to the bag...I also | took 2 quarters of Assembly Language Programming...and we used the | Peter Norton "Advanced DOS Programming" book....(which I had already | bought months before and had already built DSKPATCH with that book). | ... | So, get ready for some SERios argument about your statement above... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 144) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 11:41:39 pm | | gregy> | And...you are right about Arachne being gone from memory when you ALT-E | ...but...but....I said that Arachne's "peculiars" were shoved onto the | DOS stack, then when we "exit" the second COMMAND.COM..reloads the CPU | with all those "peculiars" and we're back exACTly where we were in | Arachne when we ALT-Eed... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 145) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 11:46:04 pm | | gregy> | Actually, if you think about what you're saying, you would see that you | prove what I'm saying.. | .. | If what I said is NOT true...then HOW can ARACHNE.BAT still be running | ...??? | ... | actually, it isn't....CORE.EXE is running, and ARACHNE.BAT's "peculiars" | are pushed onto the DOS stack, so that when we ALT-X (after hangup) | ARACHNE.BAT's "peculiars" are POPed back off the DOS stack and we're | ...zounds!!!...back in ARACHNE.BAT, at the point where we called CORE, | and the bat runs thru to completion... | ..and we get the good ol' DOSprompt back... | | | ============================================================================ | | 146) Tue, Nov 14, 2006 - 11:49:32 pm | | gregy> | Actually, if we're not hungup when we ALT-X...we still exit CORE, and | the ARACHNE.BAT runs thru to completion, but it gives a different | message, telling us we never hungup, so it says to launch ARACHNE.BAT | again, with either the -r or -u calling parameters. | | | ============================================================================ | | 147) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 12:24:24 am | | gregy> | Welp....got that Dell loaded and running....I mean with a minimal | system.. | .. | 1. used my OpDOS701 Rescue diskette to partition for a C: primary | and a double-handful of Logical drives. | 2. The FDISK seems to be reporting approximately the correct size | (8.2Gbytes). | 3. The "Restore original MBR" refused to work the first couple times. | Then, after I'd partitioned more of the HDD, it finally seemed to | accept the command, and do it. | 4. FORMATed C: and D: and then it balked on the E:, and balked on the | rest of the drives. | 5. Rebooted with the MSDOS622 Rescue diskette and FDISKed. Chose the | "Restore MBR option" and it told me that that had already been done, so | it appears the OpDOS FDISK had done an okay job.. | 6. Used the MSDOS FORMAT to format the remaining 6-8 logical partitions | that the OpDOS FORMAT wouldn't. | 7. Rebooted with the OpDOS InstallationDiskette in the drive and then | installed a minimal OpDOS 7.01 to the C: drive. | 8. Copied over some of my personal utilities, and checked all the | drives....they all are accessible and useable... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 148) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 12:27:55 am | | gregy> | So, since it seems okay, I'm going to put a minimal Arachne on there, | just to give it a tryout.... | ... | If nothing else, I can wipe it and install different drives (I always | use two, whenever I'm installing HDDs...)... | ... | Ultimately, I'll wipe it, anyway, and see what the OS/2 FDISK (of | PartitionMagic) will do with that disk. | .. | Only thing is...the CMOS BIOS settings still show 40Gbytes, and that's | a potential problem... | | | ============================================================================ | | 149) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 12:44:01 am | | gregy> | | http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110009248 | | | ============================================================================ | | 150) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 12:44:30 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110009248 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 151) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 6:37:24 am | | Eric> | Gregy, There is a difference in the way Arachne | does a shell out. When I shell out from my editor, | the editor is still loaded in conventional memory. | However, when I shell out from Arachne, Arachne is | no longer in conventional memory. The "mem" command | shows the only difference is in the conventional memory | used by command.com. The memory used by 1st command.com | increases a few bites and the shell command.com is loaded. | That means Arachne is releasing most of conventional | memory for running another program. My editor stays | in memory and reduces the available memory so it limits | severly the size of a program I can run in the shell. | | | ============================================================================ | | 152) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 6:43:07 am | | Eric> | Gregy, Also, with a190J1, when I return from | a DOS prompt, I return to exactly the same page | that I left with both ALT-X or ALT-E... AS LONG AS | I don't disconnect/hangup. | | ============================================================================ | | 153) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 6:49:02 am | | Eric> | I do not return to the same place on the page | when I return from either ALT-X or ALT-E. In | both cases the page is reloaded at the top | of the page. | | | ============================================================================ | | 154) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 6:55:14 am | | Eric> | Gregy, Your Arachne version/setup may behave differently. | As I have been saying all along, the exact behavior of | Arachne to shelling out, exiting, and returning has | varied with different versions over the years. | | ============================================================================ | | 155) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 6:56:59 am | | Eric> | Gregy, BTW, I never recommended FREEDOS to anyone. | I don't think I ever used FREEDOS. | | ============================================================================ | | 156) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 8:35:19 am | | Jake> | But that's no excuse for not taking a daily bath in DDT! | | | ============================================================================ | | 157) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 9:09:17 am | | Eric> | Jake, That's not a bad idea....a daily DDT bath | might do me some good...might get ride of some | parasites. Of course, that assumes I'm not | allergic to DDT...then I'll have to dilute it down | and slowly increase the concentration over a few weeks | until I can take it full strength. I just hope | it doesn't effect my eggs! | | ============================================================================ | | 158) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 4:44:39 pm | | glennmcc> | --- my just now modified arachne.bat | one beep.com after :execute | two after :fastexecute | three after :end | | Alt+E == 2 beeps | (errorlevel 128 == run $roura$.bat | (last line of $roura$.bat is to re-run arachne.bat) | | Alt+X == 3 beeps | (errorlevel 32 == delete temp files & terminate to dos prompt | --- | | @echo off | break=off>NUL | rem --- Arachne is *.BAT which will make your PC survive to 21st century! -- | rem ------ (c)1996-2002 Michael Polak, Arachne Labs, http://arachne.cz/ ---- | if (%1) == (-u) goto termin | if not (%1) == () goto continue | if not exist arachne.cfg setup.bat | if not exist arachne.pck setup.bat | if exist lock arachne.bat system\gui\err_lock.ah | if exist ppp.log arachne.bat -r | echo Don't worry, this is just Arachne lock file...>lock | :continue | if not "%TRACE%"=="on" goto skip1 | echo >>trace.log #1 %1 | echo >>trace.log #2 %2 | :skip1 | core.exe %1 %2 | if errorlevel 128 goto fastexecute | if errorlevel 64 goto execute | if errorlevel 32 goto end | if errorlevel 16 goto graphics | if errorlevel 8 goto resolution | REM * | if errorlevel 4 echo Errorlevel 4 | if errorlevel 2 echo Errorlevel 2 | if errorlevel 1 echo Errorlevel 1 | if errorlevel 0 echo Errorlevel 0 | REM * | pause | core.exe system\gui\fatal.ah | if errorlevel 128 goto fastexecute | if errorlevel 64 goto execute | if errorlevel 32 goto end | if errorlevel 16 goto graphics | if errorlevel 8 goto resolution | if not exist core.exe goto noexe | goto err | :termin | termin.com 0x60 | del ppp.log | goto end | :noexe | echo CORE.EXE is missing. | goto end | :graphics | if not "%TRACE%"=="on" goto skip2 | echo >>trace.log graphics fail | :skip2 | setup.bat | :resolution | core -s | if errorlevel 32 goto end | goto continue | :execute | beep.com | $roura$.bat | goto err | :fastexecute | beep.com | beep.com | if not (%ARACHNETEMP%)==() %ARACHNETEMP%\$roura$.bat | if exist %TEMP%\ARACHNE.TMP\$roura$.bat %TEMP%\ARACHNE.TMP\$roura$.bat | if exist %TEMP%\$roura$.bat %TEMP%\$roura$.bat | REM Compatibility with old %TEMP% format maintained | :err | echo Abnormal Arachne termination. Please reboot system and/or restart Arach | :end | beep.com | beep.com | beep.com | if exist $roura?.bat del $roura?.bat | if exist %ARACHNETEMP%\$roura$.bat del %ARACHNETEMP%\$roura$.bat | if exist %TEMP%\$roura$.bat del %TEMP%\$roura$.bat | if exist *._$b del *._$b | if exist %ARACHNETEMP%\*._$b del %ARACHNETEMP%\*._$b | if exist %TEMP%\*._$b del %TEMP%\*._$b | if exist ip-up.bat del ip-up.bat | if exist ppp.log echo Type 'arachne -u' to terminate SLIP/PPP connection. | if exist lock del lock | if not exist %TEMP%\ARACHNE.TMP\*.* goto done | for %%f in (%TEMP%\arachne.tmp\*.*) do del %%f | rd %TEMP%\arachne.tmp>NUL | :done | echo. | ______________________________________________________ | | ============================================================================ | | 159) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 6:23:15 pm | | glennmcc> | The :fastexecute section is also used when we don't have enough memory | available for core.exe the stay in memory for a particular command in | mime.cfg | | As a test.. place the 2 beeps after :fastexecute and go to inbox | | No beeps. | | Now edit mime.cfg andf set the memory setting artificially high to say | [530] instead of only [130] | | Core.exe is now 'dumped' from memory before running insight.exe | and we get 2 beeps as :fastexecute is used. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 160) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 6:31:16 pm | | glennmcc> | Hitting F8 to clear the cache also uses :fastexecute | | But as you'll notice... with all other funtions that use :fastexecute | arachne.bat automatically re-run just as soon as the function is | complete. | | Alt+E goes to :fastexecute, runs $roura$.bat, calls dosshell.bat, | loads the second copy of command.com to give us the DOS prompt | so that we can do anything else we might want to do, | when we 'exit' that 2nd command.com, control is returned to $roura$.bat | which then re-runs arachne.bat to put us right back where we were. | | Without the 2nd copy of command.com.... we can't get the DOS prompt. | | ============================================================================ | | 161) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 6:36:00 pm | | glennmcc> | Ray, | | There's the rub..... | | Do you know of some other method that could be used to give us that DOS | prompt without using this line in dosshell.bat ? | | %COMSPEC% /E:1024 | | ============================================================================ | | 162) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 9:41:35 pm | | ray> | Hmmm, it could be that simple, the altered prompt is a good thing | for sure, lets think of how that might be done without the | second shell -- yeah, when the second shell returns the prompt | is restored automaticaly so that's cool, but the prompt could | be restored directly, and that would save the time and memory | of loading the 2nd shell. | | Oh, Gregy, as you re-explain your position above, we agree | totaly. Yes, the .bat is on the DOS stack, as .bat's always | are when running but core.exe is gone gone gone -- actualy, | in 4DOS .bats are indeed kept in memory but c'com doesn't do it | that way, only the file file handle is stacked, so when the .bat | needs to execute some command from within itself. only the | file handle and pointer are stored. When the .bat resumes, it | must be relaoded and the file pointer moved down to the next | line in the .bat. ... and that needs to be done every time. | 4DOS just keeps the .bat in memory :-) | | | | ============================================================================ | | 163) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 10:56:32 pm | | gregy> | yes, Ray...but...that's the way COMMAND.COM deals with loading/running | ALL programs....FWIW...COMMAND.COM releases/"dumps" it's upper portion | area for the use of any program it runs (just keeping some keepalive | and housekeeping stuff down in low memory)...then, when that program | ends/exits....COMMAND.COM reloads its main portion back into upper, | conventional memory... | ... | Yes, I know 4DOS does it somewhat differently...but...you/we need to | keep firmly in mind, that MOST users are NOT going to use 4DOS...no | matter how much you/we might think that they should..... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 164) Wed, Nov 15, 2006 - 10:57:51 pm | | gregy> | Jake...DDT bath...??? ...couldn't hurt......but, is really | unnecessary.....unless you've got cooties..... | .. | | | ============================================================================ | | 165) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 12:53:27 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/archives/climate_change/000990l | | | | ============================================================================ | | 166) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 1:21:47 am | URL | | gregy> | Mz Genius #1 | | http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/Comment/ByronYork/111606.html | | | | ============================================================================ | | 167) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 1:23:18 am | URL | | gregy> | Mz Genius #2 | | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/15/AR2006111501 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 168) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 1:40:10 am | URL | | gregy> | Not that I disagree with this action, but...all the "north of the | border" libs sure bash-bush and all us yanks for doing farrrrrr less | .... | http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061115.wspyarrest1116/B | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 169) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 5:03:08 pm | | glennmcc> | Ray.... | | I'm not talking about chaging and the restoring what's displayed at the | prompt via the %prompt% env variable. | | I'm talking about getting to the DOS command prompt itself... (the CLI) | | If we don't load a second copy of command.com | (or in your case 4dos.com since that is what %comspec% points to),.... | that we can't enter commands to run other programs. | | Here's an example of what I do most times when I 'shell out' of Arachne. | | Alt+E | x.bat (runs xtree gold), 'log' drive E: and move to my latest Arachne | SRC code directory, view the file of choice and serch for the code | snippet I'm looking for, copy that snippet to a file on drive L: so | that I can paste it into this box..... | | BRB | _________ | | #ifdef CAV | *y+=fonty(0-user_interface.fontshift,NORMAL)-1; | #else | *y+=fonty(0-user_interface.fontshift,NORMAL); | #endif | | _____________________ | | maybe next I'll run Graphics Workshop to convert a screen capture | from BMP to GIF to upload.... | | BRB | ____________ | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/conv.gif | | Then I 'exit' the shell to come back into here. | | ============================================================================ | | 170) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 5:31:22 pm | | glennmcc> | If we simply complete the execution of arachne.bat (as Alt_X does),.... | control goes back to the point in arr.bat at-which arachne.bat was | 'called' and all of this happens...... | | C: | :delmail | if not "%3"=="/y" goto confirm | del l:\arachne\!*.* | goto xc | :confirm | ? del l:\arachne\!*.* | :xc | C: | set comspec=c:\command.com | set temp=c:\temp | if %cdrom%=="loaded" c:\opendos\nwcache.exe 7670 1024 /lend=on /delay=on /mu | goto end | :err | echo To run !ar150b2.zip --- arrm 150b2(enter) | pause | dir e:\arachne\!ar*.zip /p | pause | :end | if not "%3"=="/n" call c:\1batch\scanmail.bat | if "%5"=="/killppp" call c:\1batch\killppp.bat | if not "%3"=="/n" goto scandone | men.bat | :scandone | defiant.com | | | It is the loading of that second copy of command.com to get a 'new CLI' | which prevent all of that from being done untill such time as I quit | arachne completely via Alt+X | | ============================================================================ | | 171) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 8:55:22 pm | | ray> | Yes, I see it now. The only way a .bat can show us a prompt and | then continue executing itself is via the second shell. But, | this still begs the question, is this the best way? The goal | of the exercise, as you point out, it to avoid a 'complete shutdown' | which is good both for speed, and sometimes for the fact that | one only wants to perform some opperations when one is 'quitting | for good'. You know where core returns with an errorlevel and | that then controls further execution of the .bat? Well, one might | simply return with an errorlevel that indicates 'don't bother | with termination commands in the bat, we expect to restart | shortly' then she just goes to 'exit:' Now when you restart, | from Alt+E or Alt+X, the startup is exactly the same no? So all | you need to change it what happens on exit, and the rest should | be unchanged BUT all the overhead of the shell, the roura, the | dossshell.bat ... is all avoided. | | Or am I FOS? ;-) | | | | ============================================================================ | | 172) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 9:05:07 pm | | ray> | BTW, I think I've finaly found an elegant answer to the history | exclusions. My previous system was working but it involved changes | to 4 files and quite a bit of code. So here's the lattest: | Our problem is that Arachne needs to 'remember what she was doing' | when she needs to dial or run .dgi's and this has been done | by simply using the history list, trouble is, of course, that | when you 'goback' one bumps into these 'actions' and this can | be unpleasant. I tried a seperate buffer to store the 'what I was | doing' command outside of history, but then it occured to me: | Use the bleeding history and THEN JUST DELETE IF FROM THE BLEEDING | HISTORY!!! | | This way, any and all 'multi step' actions are preformed as | usual, and one just excludes stuff from the list however one | wants without it having any consequenses to any actions because | the exclusions are only removed AFTER they have done their work. | So far it's working, and if you like the idea, it will port to your | code with no trouble. No more ifs ands buts and maybes, one | excludes from history based on ones taste and nothing gets busted | regardless of what you exclude. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 173) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 9:13:29 pm | | glennmcc> | re"this still begs the question, is this the best way?" | | No, my good man..... the question it begs is... | | "Does there even exist any way to get to that 'new CLI' without loading | the second copy of command.com?" | | I do not know of any other way of doing it. | | Do you ? | | ============================================================================ | | 174) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 9:15:24 pm | | glennmcc> | And to answer your final question in post 171. | | YES !!!! | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 175) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 9:15:45 pm | | ray> | Yep, working fine, no more reply.dgi, movmail1.dgi, 'smtp:' Ok, | but 'smtp:xxxxxxxx.tbs' bad. No minefields in the historylist, | just files (passive files?), html pages and (my taste) the inbox, | outbox and sentmail pages. | | | ============================================================================ | | 176) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 9:17:39 pm | | glennmcc> | And now I have a question for you. | | Since Alt+E works prefectly as-is.... | | Why do you seem to feel the need to 'reinvent the wheel' ???? ;-) | | ============================================================================ | | 177) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 9:26:44 pm | | gregy> | Hard Disk Gurus... | ... | I have a Maxtor 40Gb IDE drive which I suspect has has the cyl/hds/sect | entries in the on-drive tables munged-up by WinME (no, I don't even | TOUCH that stuff, it was on the drive when I bought the computer). | .. | Anyone know of a simple little DOS utility that queries the IDE and | gets its cyl/hds/sect information....??? | ... | I'd like to see what's in there right now, before I "low-level-format" | and poke the correct specs in there. | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 178) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 9:26:57 pm | | ray> | But we don't need a 'new CLI' the old one will do just fine. | We quit, but just avoid all the stuff we don't want to do. Sure we | don't get a second shell, but we don't need or want one save that | up till now that's been the trick for avoiding running the | rest of arachne.bat. | | Lookit: | (find ALL CAPS COMMENTS) | ========================================================================== | | @echo off | break=off>NUL | rem --- Arachne is *.BAT which will make your PC survive to 21st century! -- | rem ------ (c)1996-2002 Michael Polak, Arachne Labs, http://arachne.cz/ ---- | | IF %ARADOSSHELL%==YUP PROMPT=%OLDPROMPT% ///////////////////////// | IF %ARADOSSHELL%==YUP goto continue | | | if (%1) == (-u) goto termin | if not (%1) == () goto continue | if not exist arachne.cfg setup.bat | if not exist arachne.pck setup.bat | if exist lock arachne.bat system\gui\err_lock.ah | if exist ppp.log arachne.bat -r | echo Don't worry, this is just Arachne lock file...>lock | :continue | if not "%TRACE%"=="on" goto skip1 | echo >>trace.log #1 %1 | echo >>trace.log #2 %2 | :skip1 | core.exe %1 %2 | | IF ERRORLEVEL 129 GOTO DOSSHELL: ///////////////////////////// | | if errorlevel 128 goto fastexecute | if errorlevel 64 goto execute | if errorlevel 32 goto end | if errorlevel 16 goto graphics | if errorlevel 8 goto resolution | REM * | if errorlevel 4 echo Errorlevel 4 | if errorlevel 2 echo Errorlevel 2 | if errorlevel 1 echo Errorlevel 1 | if errorlevel 0 echo Errorlevel 0 | REM * | pause | core.exe system\gui\fatal.ah | if errorlevel 128 goto fastexecute | if errorlevel 64 goto execute | if errorlevel 32 goto end | if errorlevel 16 goto graphics | if errorlevel 8 goto resolution | if not exist core.exe goto noexe | goto err | :termin | termin.com 0x60 | del ppp.log | goto end | :noexe | echo CORE.EXE is missing. | goto end | :graphics | if not "%TRACE%"=="on" goto skip2 | echo >>trace.log graphics fail | :skip2 | setup.bat | :resolution | core -s | if errorlevel 32 goto end | goto continue | :execute | $roura$.bat | goto err | :fastexecute | if not (%ARACHNETEMP%)==() %ARACHNETEMP%\$roura$.bat | if exist %TEMP%\ARACHNE.TMP\$roura$.bat %TEMP%\ARACHNE.TMP\$roura$.bat | if exist %TEMP%\$roura$.bat %TEMP%\$roura$.bat | REM Compatibility with old %TEMP% format maintained | :err | echo Abnormal Arachne termination. Please reboot system and/or restart Arach | :end | if exist $roura?.bat del $roura?.bat | if exist %ARACHNETEMP%\$roura$.bat del %ARACHNETEMP%\$roura$.bat | if exist %TEMP%\$roura$.bat del %TEMP%\$roura$.bat | if exist *._$b del *._$b | if exist %ARACHNETEMP%\*._$b del %ARACHNETEMP%\*._$b | if exist %TEMP%\*._$b del %TEMP%\*._$b | if exist ip-up.bat del ip-up.bat | if exist ppp.log echo Type 'arachne -u' to terminate SLIP/PPP connection. | if exist lock del lock | if not exist %TEMP%\ARACHNE.TMP\*.* goto done | for %%f in (%TEMP%\arachne.tmp\*.*) do del %%f | rd %TEMP%\arachne.tmp>NUL | :done | echo. | | DOSSHELL: ///////////////////////////////////////////////// | SET ARADOSSHELL=YUP | INCORPORATE PROMPT SETTING HERE: | | GOTO EXIT | | See? The bottom line is the same as Alt+E without all the | added trouble except that you don't type 'EXIT' to restart | Arachne you just type 'arachne' as usual. | | ============================================================================ | | 179) Thu, Nov 16, 2006 - 9:29:05 pm | | ray> | What? me reinvent the wheel?? Would I do that? | | .... | | No I'm just optimizing the wheel | | | Heck if something can be improved why not do it? | | | ============================================================================ | | 180) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 12:39:24 am | | Jake> | Sounds "progressive"? | | This guy was referred to on one of the lists quite regularly by a contributo | | http://www.johnquiggin.com/archives/000702.html | | | ============================================================================ | | 181) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 6:40:10 am | | glennmcc> | OK, | | Your new wheel kkeps the 'clean-up' stuff from being done in arachne.bat | | Now have another look at my post 170 | | That is the stuff at the end of my arr.bat which calls arachne.bat | | Will your new wheel stop the execution of the rest of that stuff when | arachne.bat is done and control goes back to that point in my arr.bat ? | | ============================================================================ | | 182) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 6:41:26 am | | glennmcc> | That is the whole point of the 2nd command.com .... to prevent control | from being passed back to the calling BAT | | ============================================================================ | | 183) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 6:56:04 am | | glennmcc> | The changing of what's displayed at the command prompt via the %promt% | env variable is noting more than a reminder that we currently in the 2nd | copy of command.com and must use 'exit' to return to arachne. | | The displayed %prompt% is not the point of the method | | As I say... | the point is to prevent the return of control back to the calling BAT | | As far as I know, there is only one way possible to do it. | | And that way is by loading the 2nd command.com | | That's what I was talking about when I asked if you knew of some other | way to do things. | | Not some other way of getting the changed %prompt%, but rather some | other way of preventing control from being passed back to the BAT which | called arachne.bat | | If you know of some other way.... have at it... I'll try your method and | see if I like it. :))) | | | ============================================================================ | | 184) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 3:14:14 pm | | ray> | Ah, but if the 'set' is used, that can then control .bat execution | anywhere you want, infact, it would give added control since it | could be used anywhere at all. I hear what you're saying, the | shell gives a sort of 'breakout' whereas my way would indeed | regress back through whatever .bats where involved, thusly my way | would involve changes to both bats (in your case) however, dosshell.bat | itself would become redundant and everything would be lighter, | faster and less cryptic -- and as Eric correctly pointed out, there | are some negatives to 2nd shells, they can do funny things. | There might indeed be some situation where the 2nd shell is | truely needed but I doubt that's the case for most folks most times. | | | ============================================================================ | | 185) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 3:17:10 pm | | ray> | Just to belabour the obvious, your arr.bat would skematic to | something like this: | | blah | blah | call arachne.bat | if %arashell%==YUP goto skipstuffwhenshelling | ... | ... | | So you can still control flow totaly. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 186) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 4:44:23 pm | | ray> | Oh, and I have enough free memory to do a 'real' shell: | | | Modules using memory below 1 MB: | | Name Total Conventional Upper Memory | -------- ---------------- ---------------- ---------------- | SYSTEM 18,672 (18K) 10,960 (11K) 7,712 (8K) | HIMEM 1,168 (1K) 1,168 (1K) 0 (0K) | EMM386 4,320 (4K) 4,320 (4K) 0 (0K) | 4DOS 10,688 (10K) 432 (0K) 10,256 (10K) | RCORE 339,680 (332K) 339,680 (332K) 0 (0K) | 4DOS 3,936 (4K) 960 (1K) 2,976 (3K) | COMMAND 8,480 (8K) 1,056 (1K) 7,424 (7K) | NANSI 3,184 (3K) 0 (0K) 3,184 (3K) | RAMDRIVE 1,456 (1K) 0 (0K) 1,456 (1K) | IFSHLP 2,864 (3K) 0 (0K) 2,864 (3K) | SMARTDRV 35,056 (34K) 0 (0K) 35,056 (34K) | 320-180C 5,296 (5K) 0 (0K) 5,296 (5K) | KSTACK 1,072 (1K) 0 (0K) 1,072 (1K) | CTMOUSE2 3,552 (3K) 0 (0K) 3,552 (3K) | NOVA_RAY 5,264 (5K) 0 (0K) 5,264 (5K) | PRTSCR 1,440 (1K) 0 (0K) 1,440 (1K) | Free 366,864 (358K) 296,096 (289K) 70,768 (69K) | | This works exactly like shelling from other programs, you get | an instant prompt, no .bat's are read, core stays in memory | but there's only the 300K available. EXIT snaps back into Arachne | with no disernable delay. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 187) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 5:35:42 pm | | glennmcc> | Sorry... that method is no good. | | I need 600k or more available to run some of the programs I use while | shelled-out. | | Graphics workshop ain't gonna run with only 300k available. | | ============================================================================ | | 188) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 5:40:33 pm | | glennmcc> | I sometimes shellout and run ftp, telnet, Lynx2851, wget, qv, qpv, | mpxplay, cubic player, ... many other memory intensive prgrams. | | No-can-do with most of those if core.exe is still in memory and only | 300k is available for other programs. | | ============================================================================ | | 189) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 5:56:07 pm | | glennmcc> | Here are the mem/c stats while shelled-out from various other programs. | | --- ftp.exe --- | | Conventional memory: | | Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex | DOS 91,040 ( 88K ) 163A0 | QEMM386$ 768 ( 0K ) 300 | COMMAND 1,536 ( 1K ) 600 | FTP 170,272 ( 166K ) 29920 | COMMAND 7,104 ( 6K ) 1BC0 | | FREE 466,080 ( 455K ) 71CA0 | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | | Extended 15,728,640 ( 15,360K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 6,804,480 ( 6,645K ) | EMS 267,223,040 ( 260,960K ) 163,053,568 ( 159,232K ) | | Largest executable program: 466,064 ( 455K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 564,336 ( 551K ) | | --- Lynx2851 --- | | Conventional memory: | | Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex | DOS 91,040 ( 88K ) 163A0 | QEMM386$ 768 ( 0K ) 300 | COMMAND 1,728 ( 1K ) 6C0 | LYNX 16,928 ( 16K ) 4220 | CWSDPMI 84,368 ( 82K ) 14990 | LYNX 152,864 ( 149K ) 25520 | command 7,136 ( 6K ) 1BE0 | | FREE 381,968 ( 373K ) 5D410 | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | | Extended 15,728,640 ( 15,360K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 6,804,480 ( 6,645K ) | EMS 267,223,040 ( 260,960K ) 159,072,256 ( 155,344K ) | | Largest executable program: 381,952 ( 373K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 480,112 ( 469K ) | | --- xtree gold --- | | Conventional memory: | | Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex | DOS 91,040 ( 88K ) 163A0 | QEMM386$ 768 ( 0K ) 300 | COMMAND 1,728 ( 1K ) 6C0 | XTGOLD 2,224 ( 2K ) 8B0 | command 5,792 ( 5K ) 16A0 | XTG 294,048 ( 287K ) 47CA0 | command 7,104 ( 6K ) 1BC0 | | FREE 334,096 ( 326K ) 51910 | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | | Extended 15,728,640 ( 15,360K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 6,804,480 ( 6,645K ) | EMS 267,223,040 ( 260,960K ) 163,053,568 ( 159,232K ) | | Largest executable program: 334,080 ( 326K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 426,640 ( 417K ) | | --- arachne --- | | Conventional memory: | | Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex | DOS 91,040 ( 88K ) 163A0 | QEMM386$ 768 ( 0K ) 300 | COMMAND 2,160 ( 2K ) 870 | COMMAND 7,136 ( 6K ) 1BE0 | | FREE 635,696 ( 620K ) 9B330 | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | | Extended 15,728,640 ( 15,360K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 6,804,480 ( 6,645K ) | EMS 267,223,040 ( 260,960K ) 163,053,568 ( 159,232K ) | | Largest executable program: 635,680 ( 621K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 733,952 ( 717K ) | ____________________________________________________________________________ | | As we can clearly see, all of them use exactly the same method..... | | All of them load a 2nd copy of %comspec% | | | ============================================================================ | | 190) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 6:01:18 pm | | glennmcc> | But.... as we can also clearly see....... | | Arachne is the only one that 'dumps' its main executable from memory | so that over 600k is available during the shell. | | Seems to me that Arachne is already using a superior method. | | So I ask again....... | | Since Arachne already _has_ a better wheel than the others have..... | | Why do you seem to feel the need to 'reinvent the wheel' ???? ;-) | | | | ============================================================================ | | 191) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 6:11:09 pm | | glennmcc> | Oh yeah, as to........... | | "No I'm just optimizing the wheel " | | Guess what Ray, | | As the mem stats prove.... Michael already optimazed it. ;-) | | ============================================================================ | | 192) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 6:19:50 pm | | ray> | Obviously. I know that 300 won't do for some operations, I'm just | mentioning it in passing -- we *can* have a 'real' shell notwithstanding | the fact that a 'phoney' shell will be more use generaly. But I | stand my my comments on dosshell.bat -- we don't need it nor does | the 2nd shell there acomplish anything. | | | ============================================================================ | | 193) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 6:33:09 pm | | glennmcc> | OK, | | I'm obviously not stating my point correctly because you still have not | shown any method other than loading the 2nd %comspec% that could be used | to prevent control from going back to the BAT which called arachne.bat | | So, I'll try once again, but this time I'll state it 'point blank'. | | | | What method other that loading the 2nd %comspec% can be used to | prevent control from going back to the BAT which called arachne.bat ? | | ============================================================================ | | 194) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 6:38:34 pm | | glennmcc> | Since you state.... "nor does the 2nd shell there acomplish anything" | | The whole point I've been trying to make which I obviously did not | get across correctly is this..... | | The point I am trying to make is that the 2nd copy of %comspec% _does_ | acomplish the one thing we need to acomplish... | | To _not_ return control to the calling BAT. | | ============================================================================ | | 195) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 6:41:26 pm | | glennmcc> | If _that_ does not state my point clearly enough..... | | then I'm _never_ going to get my point across. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 196) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 8:14:45 pm | | ray> | You have stated your point quite clearly, but have not even remarked | on my possible solution, which is to use an environment vairable | to simply ignore all subsequent commands in the calling .bat | when 'arachneshell==YUP' Perhaps post 185 above is not | detailed enough. | | arr.bat: | | | blah | blah | blah | call arachne.bat | REM when core quits with the errorlevel indicating 'shell' the | REM environment variable in the next line will be set: | if %arachneshell%==YUP goto exit | blah | blah | blah | exit: | | | You see that even though the calling .bat will be resumed, | the set can make that irrelevant since it will imediatley just | quit, so the end result is the same, or better since you might | just want to do something or other if the set has been made, you | have that option wheras the shell method allows no fine tuning. | Hey, I don't particularly care about this, it just seems like | an interesting investigation to me that might reveal something | useful. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 197) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 8:17:30 pm | | ray> | Oh, and the set also alows you to do some fine tuning inside | arachne.bat as well, you can quit as abruptly as you wish and | can make all changes right there instead of having to dredge up | dossshell.bat. Oh, and any changes you make to the environment | will not be lost on restart (or is that a disadvantage?). | | | ============================================================================ | | 198) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 9:08:56 pm | | gregy> | Jake....Re: 180....thanks for that Quiggin link....I don't know if I | agree with everything he writes (even here)....but I consider him to | be a 1st-class commentator.....on things "humankind"..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 199) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 9:42:25 pm | | glennmcc> | re"but have not even remarked on my possible solution, which is to use | an environment vairable to simply ignore all subsequent commands in | the calling .bat" | | That solution is totally unacceptabe. | | The _only_ acceptable method is to prevent returning control to the | calling BAT in the first place. | | The method of altering the calling BAT to use the new env variable | would require that I change 6 different 'calling BATs' to conform to the | 'new method'. | | And those altered BATs would no longer be compatible with the 'old method'. | | Unless of-course I made additional changes to all 6 to make them | compatible with 'both methods'. | | ============================================================================ | | 200) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 9:46:01 pm | | glennmcc> | So, I ask yet again and I promise it will be the last time I ask. | | Do you know of any other way to prevent returning control | to the calling BAT ? | | ============================================================================ | | 201) Fri, Nov 17, 2006 - 10:14:10 pm | | ray> | Six files? What are they? Anyway I take your point, you aren't the | sort of guy who edits six files in one go and even I would | wonder if such a thing would be worth it. But to answer your | question, yes, it's easy one simply needs a line without | 'call' infront of it and control is not returned -- problem is | of course to make that conditional and that's what I would have | used the 'set' for which would end up with the same bottom line -- | you quit Arachne but without all the shutdown commands being | executed, which is all one really wants anyway. At the end of the | day that IS what we want isn't it? To quit Arachne (so we get full | DOS memory vs. the 'real' shell where we don't) but to not | do a 'full shutdown' since we expect to return in that session. | This is easy to do by several methods but, yes, you'd have to | edit some files. The alternative is just to leave it alone, and | that's not exactly bad news, it works well enough. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 202) Sat, Nov 18, 2006 - 9:17:04 am | | gregy> | ahhh...yes..I can agree with that, "...to leave it alone,. . .it works | well enough."... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 203) Sat, Nov 18, 2006 - 9:22:49 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-sci-arctic17nov17,1,365 | | | ============================================================================ | | 204) Sat, Nov 18, 2006 - 12:16:11 pm | | ray> | Gregy, | | Yup, even I know that sometimes, if it aint broke don't optimize it. | OTOH, the worst fault Arachne has is that she does so many things | in a sub optimal way, and fixing those things is why I have 300K | of free memory. Also, when you optimize code, you not only get | the 'up front' improvement, but you sometimes kill bugs in the | process and gain the clarity to see how to make user noticable | improvements as well. Functional improvements *follow* cleanness | and clarity; if you try to do it otherwise you can make one hell | of a mess. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 205) Sat, Nov 18, 2006 - 12:17:33 pm | | ray> | Can't get into latimes, need a password. | | | ============================================================================ | | 206) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 12:38:18 pm | | Eric> | Ray, Where have you been ? Brian Murphy has | been trying to connect via VCN for a long time. | If you know how then give him some help. He keeps | sending arachne.cfg files to the list that have | letters chopped off. I have no idea how he manages | that. His email address is BCMURPHY@compuserve.com | You may have missed him since he usually uses the | Freelist. | | ============================================================================ | | 207) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 2:18:08 pm | | ray> | Yeah, if he's a freelister then I wouldn't know. Let me just | see if I can dig up that old stuff then. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 208) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 3:39:42 pm | URL | | little_birdie> | http://www.freelists.org/archives/arachne/ | | ============================================================================ | | 209) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 4:32:08 pm | | Eric> | little_birdie, I think/hope that Ray meant his | old arachne.cfg files for connecting to VCN when | he said "dig up old stuff". | | ============================================================================ | | 210) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 4:34:33 pm | | Eric> | little_birdie, Thanks for that link anyway. It's | a good thing to have in my Hotlist. | | | ============================================================================ | | 211) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 4:52:24 pm | | Eric> | little-birdie, did you save that good link to C++ tutor | that was posted recently. I just lost it while saving | your link to Freelist archives. | | ============================================================================ | | 212) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 5:03:25 pm | | little_birdie> | Nope, did not save it. :( | | ============================================================================ | | 213) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 5:05:50 pm | | little_birdie> | BTW, | | I left the link to the Freelists archive because Ray is not getting the emai | | Now he can read them online. :) | | | ============================================================================ | | 214) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 5:08:07 pm | | little_birdie> | re: your link in post 203.......... | | The story you requested is available only to registered members. | | Registration is FREE and offers great benefits. | | Click here to register if you are not a registered member of latimes.com | | | ============================================================================ | | 215) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 5:08:59 pm | | little_birdie> | What they don't say is that registration requires an https capable browser. | | ============================================================================ | | 216) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 5:14:47 pm | | Eric> | little_birdie, Re: #214 : | | "Registration is FREE and offers great benefits." | | That's a matter of opinion... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 217) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 5:17:02 pm | | Eric> | l_b, What did you expect, LATimes....they have | to be progressive! | | ============================================================================ | | 218) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 5:30:02 pm | | glennmcc> | Yep.... LA ... the 'home planet' of the proggie_libs. | | ============================================================================ | | 219) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 5:34:55 pm | | glennmcc> | We have lots of FREE stuff for you. | | And all we ask in return is your email address | so we can send ya' TONS of SPAM !!!! | | | ============================================================================ | | 220) Sun, Nov 19, 2006 - 9:31:47 pm | | ray> | K, I found my old 'arachne.vcn' and sent it to Brian. | (See Glenn, I never throw anything away neither, I just don't | keep it all on my screen at all times ;-) | | BTW, Eric, I've got a good whiff of what might have been | causing you that trouble. There is something very fishy | going on with the cache index but setting an fully qualified path | seems to fix it, tho I have no idea yet exactly what is going wrong. | There is this URL that refused to load a certain JPEG with a | partial path, but it fixed when a full path was used. Funny thing | is that when I deliberately busted it (the fix, bust, fix is | the only way to be sure you've found it), it refused to fix!! | It could be that somehow the std core and my core ended up fighting | over cache contents. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 221) Mon, Nov 20, 2006 - 8:58:42 pm | | Eric> | Ray, What's this I just heard on CBCTV about | one of your ferry boats running into an island | while the "supposed to be pilots" were snoggin' ? | Something about they turned off the navigational | monitor because it was casting too much light? | | ============================================================================ | | 222) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 2:41:14 am | | Eric> | glennmcc, What exactly does MailTop do to | allow mail to be downloaded from a jammed mailbox? | | | ============================================================================ | | 223) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 5:43:25 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009276 | | | ============================================================================ | | 224) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 7:07:52 am | | ray> | Eric, | | That's the rumour. How the hell else could they run into | a stupid island at a very gradual diagonal? There are several | seperate systems on those boats, any one of which would have told | them they were off course if they were paying the slightest | attention. Too bad we don't keel-haul any more. | | | ============================================================================ | | 225) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 9:57:04 am | | Jake> | Were they of opposite or same gender? | | | ============================================================================ | | 226) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 3:25:13 pm | | ray> | Opposite, which will allow the woman to get off -- she'll just | claim that it was another sad case of male sexual abuse due to | a power imbalance. The man will be charged with sexual asault, | misuse of power, AND gross derelection of duty and neglegence | causing death. | | | ============================================================================ | | 227) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 4:31:19 pm | | glennmcc> | Eric, | | With 'MailTop Yes' in arachne.cfg, instead of .... | | RETR message_number | | this command is issued.... | | TOP message_number 1000000 | | So-far... it is working to prevent the freeze-ups that were happening | on certain malformed emails. | | ============================================================================ | | 228) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 4:55:22 pm | | ray> | Hmmmm, the top million? So it would cut an email longer than that, | but if it's shorter it avoids the hang? Most strange, it seems to | me that the hang happens due to an internal error in core, when she | doesn't get the 'end' bytes she wants, she just sits there waiting. | But why would she not just sit there waiting for the millionth | byte? Seems that the server must do something different when the | bytes stop flowing no? Otherwise how would Arachne know the diff? | But if the above works OK, what happens if you set it to 100 million | bytes, so that all emails get through based on size, will it still | avoid the hang? | | | | ============================================================================ | | 229) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 5:18:46 pm | | glennmcc> | It's not bytes... it's number of lines. | | top 1 10 | | grabs the headers and the 1st 10 lines of the message body. | | top 1 1000000 | | grabs the headers and the 1st 1million lines of the message body. | | If you ever recieve an email of over 1million lines... I'll eat my hat. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 230) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 5:20:40 pm | | glennmcc> | And of-course... if it ever does happen that you get one that's more | than a million lines long...... | | After I've eaten your hat I'll increase the setting to 2 million | | ============================================================================ | | 231) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 6:54:15 pm | | ray> | Most cool. Hmmm, why does it work? If we figure that out, | we can solve the problem more elegantly, I'll bet. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 232) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 7:43:13 pm | | glennmcc> | If I could ever figure-out what actually causes the freeze-up in the | first place..... then I'd have much better luck in figuring out how | to prevent it 'more elegantly'. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 233) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 8:27:53 pm | | ray> | What? Sheesh, I've known what it is for ages, didn't I tell ya? | The socket read function ends up waiting for further bytes when | there are no more to send because our end of mail detection | triggers don't fire. Nothing is really busted, she just keeps | waiting for what isn't there. It seems that the message length | tests don't work very well since if you use that as the trigger | strange things happen -- could be due to CR/LF translation? | All we need is some sort of 'no more bytes to send' test when the | socket runs dry and its whipped. If I knew of such a test I'd | know exactly where to place it. However, it seems when you send | the 'million lines' request things do trigger properly, I wonder | why, sould be possible to see it in the .log no? | | | ============================================================================ | | 234) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 8:30:53 pm | | ray> | I was going to look into it further once I knew how my popup | behaved, however, since I now know that the popup only ever | detects spams I'm rather inclined to leave it as is, since it lets | you delete the buggers right then and there -- and that could | even be made automatic. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 235) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 9:02:05 pm | | glennmcc> | Oh yeah... no problem.... what I should have said was.... | | I know _what_ was causing it ... but figuring out why it happens on just | certain messages if the problem. | | And exactly what is it about those certain messages that cause the | freeze-up which is different ferom those which do not cause it ??? | | The only thing I can tell ya for sure is that each and every time that I | have had the freeze-ups...... | it was on a SPAM with an attached HTML file and the entire message itself | ended in either 'cr lf . cr lf' or 'lf . lf' | | ============================================================================ | | 236) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 9:15:51 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ArachneDevelopment/message/2832?unwrap=1& | | ============================================================================ | | 237) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 9:22:05 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/aligntest.htm | | | ============================================================================ | | 238) Tue, Nov 21, 2006 - 10:21:09 pm | | ray> | Mind reader! I just asked at AD for a sample of this problem ;-) | | | ============================================================================ | | 239) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 4:45:54 pm | | glennmcc> | Well, it's your own fault for jumping the gun. ;-) | | You should have known even before asking that I would have already | made a sample page for testing and that I would have already made | a little hack in the code as a work-around to fix it. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 240) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 6:11:40 pm | | glennmcc> | Eric, | | re:"But, then again, maybe there is something | that I don't understand about why it is | necessary to bounce e-mails back at | the list moderator." | | Yep... you misunderstand. | | It's not the list member temself who bounces it back intentionally.... | Some ISPs do not permit some types of attachments. | | Specifically, .EXEs .COMs .SCRs etc...etc... which are executable files | and which might contain viruses. | | Some ISPs will not even allow attachments of ZIP files which contain | executable files. | | The email sever at such ISPs are set to automatically 'bounce' the | message right back to the sender and they do not deliver it into the | intended recipiant's inbox. | | BRB | | | ============================================================================ | | 241) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 6:15:52 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | This is the one that got bounced this particular time.... | | http://www.freelists.org/archives/arachne/11-2006/msg00126.html | | It was bounced because of the attachment was.......... | | <<< application/octet-stream: EXCLUDED >>> | | The content-type 'application/octet-stream' indicates that | the attachment was an executable file. | | ============================================================================ | | 242) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 6:23:05 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Since this is what Brian said he was going to send.......... | | "To prevent any possibility of a fractured script, | I am enclosing my two best trial Arachne.CFG's | in a zip file called A190RAGL.ZIP." | | But the mesasage he sent indicated that | the attachment was 'application/octet-stream' .... | | We can deduce from this that whatever email program he is using | to send his messages is not properly setup to send ZIPs with | the correct content-type of 'application/zip' or 'application/x-zip' | or 'application/x-zipped' or 'application/x-zip-compressed' | | ============================================================================ | | 243) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 6:44:16 pm | | W0rm> | I'm curious...were those weird strings ever removed from arachne? The ones | strings? | | | ============================================================================ | | 244) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 6:51:52 pm | | glennmcc> | ".... strange code-like/religionesque strings?" | | That's news to me. | | Where did you see them... or hear about someone else seeing them ? | | ============================================================================ | | 245) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 6:57:58 pm | | glennmcc> | The only thing I ever heard about was that many years ago, Michael | had some very vulgar words embeded within core.exe | | There were some on eighter side of the section of the EXE which | contained the code for reading registration keys. | | After getting several complaints about the vulgar words, he removed them fro | | ============================================================================ | | 246) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 7:48:40 pm | | glennmcc> | OK... got the real fix this time. :))) | | -- a little further down in html.c --- | | if(imgleft) | { | if(x>p->docLeft) | HTMLatom.y=y+p->sizeRow; | else | { | HTMLatom.y=y; | x+=img->size_x; | } | //!!glennmcc: Nov 22, 2006 -- fix 'stair-step' effect in
lists | //example: http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/aligntest.htm | // HTMLatom.x=p->docLeft; //original line | // p->docLeft+=img->size_x; //original line | // HTMLatom.xx=p->docLeft; //original line | HTMLatom.xx=HTMLatom.x+img->size_x; //this fixes it | //!!glennmcc: end | HTMLatom.yy=HTMLatom.y+img->size_y; | if(HTMLatom.yy>p->docClearLeft) | p->docClearLeft=HTMLatom.yy; | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 247) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 8:01:38 pm | | ray> | Ha, beat you by 5 minutes ;-) | | But I'd leave "HTMLatom.x= ..." alone, after all we do need | a start to the atom no? I too had that commented and it worked fine, | but better to be safe; in a frame or something, the ".x" | datum might be needed, and it seems to do no harm. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 248) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 8:05:17 pm | | glennmcc> | OK, kewl... this line is back in again. | | HTMLatom.x=p->docLeft; | | | ============================================================================ | | 249) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 8:10:57 pm | | glennmcc> | New section in html.c | | if(imgleft) | { | if(x>p->docLeft) | HTMLatom.y=y+p->sizeRow; | else | { | HTMLatom.y=y; | x+=img->size_x; | } | HTMLatom.x=p->docLeft; | //!!glennmcc & Ray_Andrews: Nov 22, 2006 -- fix 'stair-step' effect in
< | //example: http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/aligntest.htm | // p->docLeft+=img->size_x; //original line | // HTMLatom.xx=p->docLeft; //original line | HTMLatom.xx=HTMLatom.x+img->size_x; //this fixes it | //!!glennmcc: end | HTMLatom.yy=HTMLatom.y+img->size_y; | if(HTMLatom.yy>p->docClearLeft) | p->docClearLeft=HTMLatom.yy; | | | | ============================================================================ | | 250) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 8:18:11 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"Ha, beat you by 5 minutes ;-)" | | Oh no you did not beat me ... I've had it fixed for over an hour now | but was testing the fix before making my posts. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 251) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 9:31:59 pm | | gregy> | Glenn....what was the disk-space requirement for that GhostScript | package that you recommend for the PDF2HTML apm-package...?? | ... | I'm about to start partitioning the drives in this OptiPlex and I want | to know how much space I need to allot for whenever I install that | .APM.. | | ============================================================================ | | 252) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 9:42:50 pm | | ray> | How do you know how long I tested? ... Anyway the copyright | goes to the first guy to get published | Speaking of testing, better throw it at a framed page to make sure | it works there, remember the CSS hover bug? | | | | ============================================================================ | | 253) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 9:49:47 pm | | gregy> | oh, and all you guys have a Happy Thanksgiving....!!! | .. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 254) Wed, Nov 22, 2006 - 10:29:10 pm | URL | | gregy> | hmmmm....Thanksgiving...!!!! | | http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/gebhardt.asp | http://graphics2.snopes.com/photos/military/graphics/gebhardt.jpg | | | ============================================================================ | | 255) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 12:06:19 am | | Eric> | glennmcc, Re: #240 - Thanks....but I may be as dumb | as I look...but...I'm seldom as dumb as I sound on | paper/screen. | | I wrote: | | >"But, then again, maybe there is something | >that I don't understand about why it is | >necessary to bounce e-mails back at | >the list moderator." | | You wrote: | | >It's not the list member temself who bounces it back intentionally.... | >Some ISPs do not permit some types of attachments. | | I was under the impression that at some ISP's the | user had some settings that controlled what was | bounced to some extent, but I could have misunderstood. | I still think it's rude of the ISP to bounce things | back. They can strip the emails or put them in a pending | file and notify their user/client what they did so that | the user can evaluate the email or contact the sender. | But to bounce back an e-mail just because it has an | attachment is stupid when all it does is clog up | the internet more and irritate people. If they really | scanned and found a virus in an e-mail and kept the | e-mail but sent a short notice to the sender that | a virus had been found in his e-mail then maybe | the unaware sender might clean his machine and | thus help reduce the virus population. But | of course that would remove their excuse for | bouncing back e-mails. | | | ============================================================================ | | 256) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 7:33:05 am | | glennmcc> | Agreed. | | Wheather it's the ISP owners/operators who set it up to bounce | of the user who set it up that way..... both situations are quite rude. | | But then again... as we have come to find out over the years. | Most ISP owners/operators and most users _are_ in-fact quite rude. | | | However... it must be pointed-out that it is also quite rude to send | attachments to a mailing list in the 1st place. | | And it is equally rude to begin argueing with the list owner | when he asks you nicely not to send attachements to the list. | | But then again... as we have come to find out over the years. | Most mailing list members _are_ in-fact quite rude. | | ============================================================================ | | 257) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 7:35:59 am | | glennmcc> | So there.......... pt~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | | | ============================================================================ | | 258) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 8:01:39 am | | glennmcc> | Ray, | | re:"... better throw it at a framed page ...." | | Good idea. | | I wrote all those CSS test pages, and now the image alignment test page. | | It's your turn now...... you write the page... I'll keep it right there | next to the other test page. | | Come on Ray.... jump into the 'HTML codeing pool'.... the water's fine. | | | ============================================================================ | | 259) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 10:41:18 am | | Eric> | glennmcc, Is bringing up a discussion concerning the | reason for "no attachments", so that maybe more list | members become aware of the problem/rule, a rude thing | to do. Or maybe, God forbid, so someone might come up | with a better solution for the problem. I think it's rude | that someone, kind enough to provide Arachne a list forum, | has to deal with needlessly bounced e-mails. I have been | been on Arachne lists for a darn long time and I can't | remember any list member sending an attachment with | the intention to do harm. And I'm not calling some odd | spammer every now and then a "list member". Any attachments | that were sent to the list were either part of a | request for help or part of an attempt to help | an other/others on the list. Now, if someone were to | stick out their tongue and wag it around at the list, | and then send a bunch of pictures as attachments to | the list of a big bummed old lady bending over or a | close-up of a dog raising it's hindleg and urinating | on someone's leg....all as a response to a request, | "please don't send attachments"...that would be RUDE. | | ============================================================================ | | 260) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 10:46:52 am | | Eric> | BTW, from a looser of the Ohio State/U.of Michigan football game, | ......HAPPY THANKSGIVING, GANG !! ............. | | | ============================================================================ | | 261) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 11:14:29 am | | glennmcc> | Happy Thanksgiving. | | Be sure not to eat too, too much. ;-) | | | ============================================================================ | | 262) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 1:36:30 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, Did you notice, Jason just sent an attachment | to the list. My guess is that it was unintentional...but... | it proves my point...attachments are an integral part of | the Internet and one just can't get away from them...... | SO....one should use a non-rude way to deal with them... | IMHHHHHO.... | | ============================================================================ | | 263) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 1:42:29 pm | | little_turkey> | Gobble, gobble, gobble......eat my shor(oops!) .... | | !! EAT MY STUFFING !! | | ============================================================================ | | 264) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 1:49:58 pm | | glennmcc> | Unintentional ? | | Just curious, but how does one untentionally attach a file to an email? | | For me it has always involed a series of several intentional actions to | place the filename into the appropriate place to get a file attached | to an email message I am sending. | | Perhaps Jason is using some new-fangled email client that attaches | files to his outgoing messages _without_ him having to take those | several intentional actions. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 265) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 9:24:52 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, I don't and never have used such things, | but based on the number of e-mails I get with the | same message in both the text body and as an | attachment, I have arrived at the conclusion that | there do exist e-mail programs which automagically | send the message in multiple formats, one of which | is as an attachment. So, if one has previously | setup his e-mail for an attachment duplicate, then | all e-mails are sent that way. But, I could be wrong | since I have never used such a system. I'm merely | speculating. | | ============================================================================ | | 266) Thu, Nov 23, 2006 - 10:11:51 pm | | ray> | Yeah, that bugs me. You get text and an html attachment below that | seems to be nothing but the text. Is this an Arachne thing or | is it more common? | | | ============================================================================ | | 267) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 3:38:13 pm | | Eric> | Ray, More common !! | | | ============================================================================ | | 268) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 4:04:06 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, Ray, I assume you got Brian Murphy's e-mail | that he got connected at VCN. I looked at the arachne.cfg | which he sent and what was there looked like a pretty straight | forward epppd install. Why was he having so much trouble? | I also don't understand how the files that he appends | to the emails get so many missing characters. What is | he doing? Any ideas? | | ============================================================================ | | 269) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 4:16:06 pm | | ray> | Eric, | | Nothing from Brian. But I'm glad he's connected. I'll bet we loose | more potential users to this kind of thing than to anything else, | so many of us have had this connection trouble at first, you need | real willpower to tough it out. I'm sure my approach is better | because its so much simpler -- you connect with a batchfile on | the command line then start Arachne so the problem is at once | broken in half -- did my batchfile fail or did Arachne simply not | find the DNS? | | | ============================================================================ | | 270) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 4:41:21 pm | | ray> | Oh, there he is on Freelist. I'd sure like to know what the magic | change was, it's good to remember these things for the next guy. | That sure was fantastic service from the guy at VCN eh? | | | | ============================================================================ | | 271) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 5:02:58 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Take the 1st link in my signature file....... | | -- | Glenn | http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/ | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/ | http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.table.html | | | ============================================================================ | | 272) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 5:31:28 pm | | glennmcc> | Eric, | | re:"Did you notice, Jason just sent an attachment to the list." | | It's still not there in the online archives. | | ============================================================================ | | 273) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 5:33:35 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | This is the most recent message in the archive from Jason.... | | http://www.freelists.org/archives/arachne/11-2006/msg00131.html | | | | ============================================================================ | | 274) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 6:38:13 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, No it's not.....look him up under "Frank Vukovich" | | ============================================================================ | | 275) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 6:44:14 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, Jason, or whoever he is just sent | another one today. I think I dumped it so I can't | send it to you. | | ============================================================================ | | 276) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 6:53:35 pm | | Eric> | Ray, I think that may be part of the problem... | That Brian doesn't really know what the difference | is. When I read the e-mails he just sent today | about downloading files, I have a real hard time | following his train of thought. Also, he has still | not sent a legible copy of his files to the list. | Every copy he has sent has been all screwed up. | | | ============================================================================ | | 277) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:01:18 pm | | glennmcc> | And still it's not in the online archives. | | If it was Jason again.... | | That pretty-much proves that he _is_ doing it intentionally. :(( | | ============================================================================ | | 278) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:04:50 pm | | glennmcc> | I have been helping Brian with his stuff for over 2 years..... | his CFGs within the body of his messages have always been screwed-up. | | And not just the ones he's been sending to the list. | | The ones he hasd sent to me personally are also screwed-up. | | I'll have a look back into my archives and see if I can find what email | client he's been using to send them. | | BRB | | | | ============================================================================ | | 279) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:07:11 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, I spelled it wrong...it's Vuckovich. | I just tried to send it to you but my darn W$dz | computer belched so I'm rebooting. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 280) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:07:20 pm | | glennmcc> | OK, found what screwed-up his messages directly to me in the past. | | He was using the Compuserve web mail interface. | | ============================================================================ | | 281) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:14:21 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, I think we have a few listers that are | not especially DOS literate and not very humble. | | ============================================================================ | | 282) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:14:35 pm | | glennmcc> | re:" but my darn W$dz computer belched so I'm rebooting." | | Serves ya right for using Win|Crap. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 283) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:15:35 pm | | glennmcc> | re:'not especially DOS literate and not very humble." | | Hahahahahaha !!!!! ... you said it brother :)))) | | | | ============================================================================ | | 284) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:17:26 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, But his e-mails are OK....it's just | the files that he appends to them. Doesn't he | read his own posts when they are returned to him. | | ============================================================================ | | 285) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:19:38 pm | | glennmcc> | Found the one from Frank. | | That was simply a case of ... post #271 | | Wizzy was not refering to those. | | He was talking about attachments that are deliberatly sent. | | Such as the ZIP of arachne.cfg that Brian attached to his message. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 286) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:22:27 pm | | glennmcc> | Obviously Brian does not read his own posts. | | And yes... it's just the text that he pastes-in to the body of the | message that gets screwed-up. | | I'll betcha dollars to donuts that he's using some POS WinCrap program | to send his messages and yet some other POS WinCrap program to do the | cut-n-paste of arachne.cfg into the body of the message. | | ============================================================================ | | 287) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:23:27 pm | | glennmcc> | Or worse yet... he just might be using JUNO. :(( | | | | ============================================================================ | | 288) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:24:25 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, Your right....I deserve it....I've resigned | myself to that....BTW, WG was on "Charlie Rose" last | night answering questions about his competition with | Google and other interesting stuff. He is one sharp | cookie. He covers himself all the time. It's like | he's in the boxing ring and he never let's his | guard down. | | | ============================================================================ | | 289) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:26:19 pm | | glennmcc> | Was that really _him_ covering himself ? | | Or was he simply saying what his sheister lawyers told him he should say | in answer to such questions ? | | | | ============================================================================ | | 290) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:28:28 pm | | glennmcc> | Oh ... and as to Brian not reading his own posts. | | He might have his setting for his subscription to Freelists | setup so that he does not receive his own posts. | | I have mine setup so that I don't get any of them. | | Rather I read them all at the online archive. | | ============================================================================ | | 291) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:30:01 pm | | glennmcc> | Since Coollist does not have an online archive... I have my settings | so that I _do_ get all posts from Coollist. | | | ============================================================================ | | 292) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:37:12 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, I'm sure he consults with lawyers but this | was not a scripted program. It was across Charlie R.'s | round table, one on one, interview. No lawyers were | visible. He got where he is because he knows what to | say most the time (maybe all the time) without consulting | his lawyers. He's an expert at skirting the questions | he wants to switch subjects, all with a smile. | | ============================================================================ | | 293) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:42:39 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, But you do read your own posts, you just | read them differently. I can't imagine not looking | to see what my posts look like and not checking to | see if I really sent what I thought was being sent. | Especially when it's critical data. | | ============================================================================ | | 294) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 7:46:33 pm | | Eric> | Post #292...last line....it's missing a "when" at the beginning. | | | ============================================================================ | | 295) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 8:10:28 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"I can't imagine not looking to see what my posts look like and not check | | But some people _do_ do it that way. | | That's why the option is there at Freelists to not receive your own posts. | | Think of it this way.... | | Getting a copy of your own posts is like sending a carbon copy | to your own address of every email you send out to anyone personally. | | ============================================================================ | | 296) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 9:12:34 pm | | ray> | After a mail download, the first thing I do is mark and delete | anything from myself unless it's there for some extraordinary | reason. | | | ============================================================================ | | 297) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 9:23:24 pm | | glennmcc> | Same here. | | One of the very few exceptions for me, are the posts from Coollist. | | Since Cooolist does not have an archive.... I have archived every | post right here in several ZIP files on my HDD. | | | ============================================================================ | | 298) Fri, Nov 24, 2006 - 11:31:32 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, You wrote: | >Think of it this way.... | >Getting a copy of your own posts is like sending a carbon copy | >to your own address of every email you send out to anyone personally. | | That is true. But when I send a snail mail letter, it is | sealed in an envelope. What I send and what the recipient | recieves is actually the same piece of paper that I wrote | on. This is not true for an e-mail. It is just a bunch of | electrical impulses passing thru who knows how many terminals | where it can be altered or intercepted or lost. | I have figured out, however, that many people do just what | Ray said...they delete their e-mails based on the subject | line or some other criteria and therefore throw away e-mail | without ever really seeing the body of the "letter". And | then when the sender doesn't get an expected reply and he | sends another e-mail to see if the sender got his first | one, the recipient says he never got the first one. | Just like an ex-girlfriend of mine threw out in the | garbage at Christmas time, a card in an envelope, with | a $50 bill inside it. She was too lazy or too indifferent | to even take the card out of the envelope and she never | saw the $50 bill. Because I knew her typical behavior | I was checking her discards and found it before the | garbage went into the dumpster. As I think I already | said, I like to be sure that what people are reading | is really what I think I wrote. | | | ============================================================================ | | 299) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 2:31:12 am | | Jake> | Was she already "ex" when you checked the garbage? | | Not implying that you're a stalker or anything, just capitalizing | on knowledge obtained... | | (And anyway, a mild bit of stalking is all par for the course.) | | ============================================================================ | | 300) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 4:19:35 am | | Eric> | Jake, No, she wasn't an ex at that time and I can't | honestly remember how long it lasted afterwards. It | was too long ago...back when $50 was worth a lot | more than today. | | | ============================================================================ | | 301) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 4:48:44 am | | Eric> | Jake, As a matter of fact, I was helping her to clean up | the apartment. That's how I happened to be working with the | black plastic garbage bag in the first place. She was busy | with something else in the other room. | | ============================================================================ | | 302) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 11:25:06 am | | Eric> | Jake, Re: Stalking | | It's not worth the effort nor the time spent. | Besides I don't have the time for it. | | ============================================================================ | | 303) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 1:06:26 pm | URL | | Eric> | Bulletin: M$-Novell | | http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=36230 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 304) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 1:15:14 pm | URL | | Eric> | What does this prove? Maybe more patches means more security! | I wonder how much M$ is paying him? | | http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=36246 | | | ============================================================================ | | 305) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 1:22:20 pm | URL | | Eric> | This ain't good...damn thieves..... | | http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=36245 | | | ============================================================================ | | 306) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 6:34:04 pm | | glennmcc> | IMO, | | Using a password manager is the same as writing the combination to your | safe on a post-it note and sticking that post-it note on the safe. | | Therefore.... | | Anybody who's stupid enough to use a 'password manager' | deserves to have their passwords stollen. | | | ============================================================================ | | 307) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 6:37:20 pm | | glennmcc> | ar190j1 7013 (since Aug 14, 2006) | | | Ray, | | Who _are_ these people ???? | | | | ============================================================================ | | 308) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 9:38:05 pm | | ray> | Don't ask me! ;-) | | Siriously, some of these folks seem to be finding their way | to Freelist, trafic there is getting better, so that's good. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 309) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 9:50:24 pm | | glennmcc> | Since most of the traffic that's been going on at freelists is simply | a bunch of people bickering back and forth amongst each other. | | I would not use the term "better" but rather I would say.... | | "the traffic is getting heavier" | | And in such a case as this where heavier traffic has resulted | in nothing much more than a bunch more bickering.... | | "heavier" most certainly is NOT "better". :((( | | | ============================================================================ | | 310) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 9:55:01 pm | | glennmcc> | Now on a totally different note...... | not yet in release version (NOKEY), at this time till we test it ;-) | | --- in guitick.c --- | | #ifndef POSIX | //disk space | //!!glennmcc: Nov 25, 2005 -- check space on the cache drive | // instead of the current drive | #ifndef NOKEY | ldsp=lastdiskspace(configvariable(&ARACHNEcfg,"CachePath",NULL))>>20; | #else | ldsp=localdiskspace()>>20; //original line | #endif | //!!glennmcc: end | sprintf(str,"%4lu",ldsp); | if(ldsp<(user_interface.mindiskspace>>20)) | { | color=2; | strcat(str,"[!!!]"); | } | else | color=0; | MemInfoLine("Disk space (MB)",str,color,&y); | #endif | | //cache items | | ============================================================================ | | 311) Sat, Nov 25, 2006 - 9:57:19 pm | | glennmcc> | And another little change .... | | --- in http.c --- | | //otevreni souboru kam zapisu vlastni prenaseny soubor | // tr.: open the file where I am going to write my own transferred file | | if(!httpstub) | { | cache->handle=a_fast_open(cache->locname,O_BINARY|O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC | //!!glennmcc: Nov 25, 2006 -- abort attempt if cache drive | //has too little space available | // if(cache->handle<0) // original line | if(cache->handle<0 | || lastdiskspace(configvariable(&ARACHNEcfg,"CachePath",NULL)) | handle>=0 | && lastdiskspace(configvariable(&ARACHNEcfg,"CachePath",NULL)) | handle); unlink(cache->locname);} | //!!glennmcc: end | GLOBAL.gotolocation=1; | puts(cache->locname); | sprintf(GLOBAL.location,"file:%s%serr_disk.ah",sharepath,GUIPATH); | return 0; | } | } | | ============================================================================ | | 312) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 1:56:15 pm | | glennmcc> | One small modification in both places above............. | | if(cache->handle<0 | || lastdiskspace(configvariable(&ARACHNEcfg,"CachePath",NULL)) | size //user_interface.mindiskspace | | | if(cache->handle>=0 | && lastdiskspace(configvariable(&ARACHNEcfg,"CachePath",NULL)) | size //user_interface.mindiskspace | | | Now if the available space on the cache drive is klessa than the size of | the file we link to to start downloading .... | | The attempt will be aborted and err_disk.ah will be displayed. | | I'll add another reason to the list on err_disk.ah | ____________________________________________________________________________ | Disk error | | Arachne cannot write temporary files. Possible reasons: | | Too little disk space available to store the file that was being downloaded. | | Hard disk is full - Arachne requires at least 0.5 MB of free disk space to r | | Cache path is invalid. | | Other hard disk, file system or operating system related error. | ____________________________________________________________________________ | | | | ============================================================================ | | 313) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 2:37:26 pm | | glennmcc> | Ray, | | I just discovered that our fix for the stair-step with align=left | needs to only be applied when we are in an ordered list. | | New example page uploaded... new code below..... | | //!!glennmcc & Ray_Andrews: Nov 22, 2006 -- fix 'stair-step' effect in
< | //example: http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/aligntest.htm | if(orderedlist[listdepth+1]<1) | { | p->docLeft+=img->size_x; //original line | HTMLatom.xx=p->docLeft; //original line | } | else | HTMLatom.xx=HTMLatom.x+img->size_x; //this fixes it | //!!glennmcc & Ray_Andrews: end | | | ============================================================================ | | 314) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 2:51:03 pm | | ray> | Hmmmm, working hard ;-) | | Nothing turns my crank like an optimization, and knowing when some | thing needs to be done, and when it doesn't, is what I call | an optimization. | | | ============================================================================ | | 315) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 3:06:44 pm | | glennmcc> | Oops... spoke too soon. :( | | That still did not fix it correctly. | | This is now woring better :)) | | //!!glennmcc & Ray_Andrews: Nov 22, 2006 -- fix 'stair-step' effect in
< | //example: http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/aligntest.htm | if(orderedlist[listdepth]) | HTMLatom.xx=HTMLatom.x+img->size_x; //this fixes it | else | { | p->docLeft+=img->size_x; //original line | HTMLatom.xx=p->docLeft; //original line | } | //!!glennmcc & Ray_Andrews: end | | | | ============================================================================ | | 316) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 3:07:39 pm | | glennmcc> | We appliy the 'fix' only when in an ordered list. | | If we're not.... we use the original code. | | ============================================================================ | | 317) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 3:44:26 pm | | ray> | Given that the fix is so simple, are there positive examples | of places where we would *not* want to use it? i.e. places where | the fix will cause trouble? I'm very suspicious of the way we | bypass the "+=" opperation, so I wouldn't be surprised if there | was trouble there, so your caution is not out of place, still, | I'd like to see some example of a page that won't swallow the | original fix. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 318) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 3:51:30 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, What was the stimulis for this | sufficient download space check. Or does it | do something else? | | | ============================================================================ | | 319) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 3:59:49 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, Merriam W. changed the format of their web page | so it doesn't bring up the answer to "define:" as nicely as | it used to. Another upgrade.... | | ============================================================================ | | 320) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 4:16:12 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, Did you see Brian M.'s answer to your question | "What programs do you use for e-mauls"? | | He said: Compuserve proprietary e-mail program and VDE editor. | | ============================================================================ | | 321) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 4:25:45 pm | | glennmcc> | Yep, saw it. | | And he just sent a message directly to my email address. | | I sent the reply to Freelists | | | ============================================================================ | | 322) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 4:26:50 pm | | glennmcc> | As to Webster. | | Just now had a look. | | Yep...... they downgraded their site and now it looks like shit !!! | | ============================================================================ | | 323) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 4:27:24 pm | | glennmcc> | As to the stimulus. | | CAV asked for it. ;-) | | ============================================================================ | | 324) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 4:30:44 pm | | glennmcc> | Ray, | | My updated aligntest.htm shows where we need to _not_ apply the fix. | | Attachments on our emails are not in ordered lists. | | Therefore they do not get the text properly aligned when the fix is used. | | The text getas shoved all the way to the left and part of it is | undernieth the IKN of the particular file type. | | | ============================================================================ | | 325) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 4:32:35 pm | | glennmcc> | if(orderedlist[listdepth]) applies the fix to only ordered lists. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 326) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 4:43:20 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, Very good answers to B.M. That email didn't | come thru before. I must have checked just slightly | before it entered my inbox. I don't understand how | B.M. could be so oblivious about what is going on | with Arachne and his e-mail in general. I'm | surprised he ever got connected...even with VCN help! | | | ============================================================================ | | 327) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 4:47:35 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, If you need proof of miracles...B.M.'s connection | to VCN/Internet with Arachne is it!!! | | | ============================================================================ | | 328) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 5:03:20 pm | | glennmcc> | You said it brother | | ============================================================================ | | 329) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 7:59:05 pm | | glennmcc> | Been busy. ;-) | | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/http.c | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/guitick.c | | Have a look at all changes dated Nov 25, 2006 and Nov 26, 2006 | | ============================================================================ | | 330) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 8:09:05 pm | | W0rm> | I don't recall the words being "very vulgar" - I do recall someone whining a | | I'm sure we're referring to the same ones though. I found them when I first | releases I may have never looked. | | | ============================================================================ | | 331) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 8:20:38 pm | | glennmcc> | Yep... sure sounds like the same stuff to me too. | | IIRC, | Michael took them out sometine in 1999 | | All can say for sure concerning when it was removed is that it's not in any | of SRC codes I have which go all the way back to v1.64 in July of 2000 | | ============================================================================ | | 332) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 9:35:13 pm | | ray> | Glenn, | | You saying that both blocks of three should look the same in | aligntest at /my-stuff? | | With the first fix, I get something like: | | XXXXTerm1 | Description1 | XXXXTerm2 | Description2 | XXXXTerm3 | Description3 | | XXXXTerm1 | Description1 | | etc. | | | ============================================================================ | | 333) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 9:48:59 pm | | ray> | ... and with you latest, it looks exactly the same. | | | ============================================================================ | | 334) Sun, Nov 26, 2006 - 10:02:04 pm | | ray> | If that's not what I should see, please clarify. | Anyway, as I said, I don't like the idea of throwing away that | "+=" line, it's gotta be there for a reason, so I'm betting you | are on the right track. | | | ============================================================================ | | 335) Mon, Nov 27, 2006 - 1:25:25 am | | Jake> | Thinking of mail attachments... | | For the second time in several years I've had an AOL user | complain that they couldn't open an attached JPEG. In the | intervening time I've sent several JPEGs to another AOL | user (but he's a bloke). I've not yet searched for whether | there's a known difficulty, like URLs needing to be put | in as HTML. | | ============================================================================ | | 336) Mon, Nov 27, 2006 - 1:30:30 am | URL | | Jake> | An explanation here: | | http://www.tcs.org/ioport/apr00/aolpictures.htm | | | ============================================================================ | | 337) Mon, Nov 27, 2006 - 3:39:22 pm | | glennmcc> | Ray, | | Here's what happens to the text for our email attachments | when our 'fix' is applied to everything. | | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/everything.gif | (notice how some of the text is shifeted all the way to left and is now | hidden under the IKN image) | | _______________________________ | | And now after blocking our fix from being applied to _everything_ but | rather only applying it to orderedlists. | | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/only_orderedlists.gif | | ============================================================================ | | 338) Mon, Nov 27, 2006 - 3:41:27 pm | | glennmcc> | Not that both of the other sections that were on my original | aligntest.htm are totally uneffected by this latest mod. | | ============================================================================ | | 339) Mon, Nov 27, 2006 - 4:09:06 pm | | glennmcc> | So... Rar, | | What do think of the mods I made in guitick.c and http.c ?????? | | | ============================================================================ | | 340) Mon, Nov 27, 2006 - 4:09:37 pm | | glennmcc> | oops typo........ Rar == Ray | | ============================================================================ | | 341) Mon, Nov 27, 2006 - 4:21:50 pm | | glennmcc> | Ain't it just GREAT to see how consistant AOHell is ???? | | Tulsa Computer Society 3/10/2000 | | After over 6yrs, AOHell still works in the same F****d-up way as it always h | | | | ============================================================================ | | 342) Mon, Nov 27, 2006 - 6:08:01 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/cartoonl.txt | | | ============================================================================ | | 343) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 4:22:22 pm | | ray> | Glenn, | | Looks good, but I stumbled on a bug and I'm tracking that down, | get back to you. | | | ============================================================================ | | 344) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 5:20:23 pm | | glennmcc> | A bug.... in _my_ code ????? | | You _must_ be mistaken. | | _MY_ code _NEVER_ has bugs. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 345) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 6:37:07 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, You just wrote on the arachne list: | | "And yes.....the copy of mime.cfg in the next release will have | those lines near the top commented out." | | IMHO, don't change it now. Now that it has been explained | and everyone knows how it works...leave it as is. | | | ============================================================================ | | 346) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 6:41:52 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, One comment...the "save box" when you press | F2 doesn't say "Save download" . The title of that box | could be improved, IMHO. | | ============================================================================ | | 347) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 6:45:40 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"... Now that it has been explained and everyone knows how it works..." | | Let's rephrase that a bit so that it more closely resembles the truth. | | Now that it has been explained and nobody understands the | explaination...... I must comment-out those lines to help prevent | the need of going through the same explaination again just to | find nobody understands the explaintion... over and over and over again | it goes. | | You see... I _know_ the truth, because I've been through this same shit | about 20 times already on just this one point. And I'm sick and tired | of constantly re-explaining it. :((( | | | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 348) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 6:48:28 pm | | glennmcc> | Oh... so instead of............... "Save current page" | | It _should_ say ............ "Save this f***'in thing to disk" | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 349) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 6:51:57 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | The same explaination a year ago............. | | http://www.freelists.org/archives/arachne/11-2005/msg00077.html | | ============================================================================ | | 350) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 6:56:28 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, That would work but I think that it involves | too many characters, double entendre intended. | | ============================================================================ | | 351) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 6:59:20 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, But you just fixed it...it now says: | "Press F2" | | | ============================================================================ | | 352) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 7:35:04 pm | | glennmcc> | And now everyone will be asking.... "What do I do after I press F2 ????" | | | | ============================================================================ | | 353) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 7:44:41 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, Well, that's why we have the list. | | | ============================================================================ | | 354) Tue, Nov 28, 2006 - 7:50:19 pm | | glennmcc> | And that's why we have to keep explaining things on the lists.... | | over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and | over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and | over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and | over and over again. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 355) Wed, Nov 29, 2006 - 4:10:40 pm | URL | | Jake> | After a couple of undelivered attempts (which surely got me banned) | I can't be arsed to write to a snotmail user: | | http://postmaster.msn.com/Guidelines.aspx | | ============================================================================ | | 356) Wed, Nov 29, 2006 - 5:11:27 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ArachneDevelopment/message/2839?unwrap=1& | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ArachneDevelopment/message/2840?unwrap=1& | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ArachneDevelopment/message/2841?unwrap=1& | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ArachneDevelopment/message/2842?unwrap=1& | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ArachneDevelopment/message/2843?unwrap=1& | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ArachneDevelopment/message/2844?unwrap=1& | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ArachneDevelopment/message/2845?unwrap=1& | | ============================================================================ | | 357) Wed, Nov 29, 2006 - 5:32:15 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | And one more............. | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ArachneDevelopment/message/2845?unwrap=1& | | | | ============================================================================ | | 358) Wed, Nov 29, 2006 - 5:33:53 pm | | glennmcc> | Oops... forgot to edit the link in the body of the post... | URL is the correct link to 2846 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 359) Thu, Nov 30, 2006 - 5:14:07 pm | | ray> | Uggg, back from bug hunting. | | Seems I do have a variation on the RDLC bug after all, but here | it gives me a crash and burn -- but only with a VESA vido mode and | only on a few pages with (it seems) very small .gifs. I still haven't | figured out what in blazes is going on, but sure enough, the | RDLC cure fixes it. | | | ============================================================================ | | 360) Thu, Nov 30, 2006 - 5:42:57 pm | | glennmcc> | Hey... it's nice to see that my old Quick-n-dirty fix still does the | job it was intended to do. ;-) | | | ============================================================================ | | 361) Thu, Nov 30, 2006 - 5:48:09 pm | | glennmcc> | And the only change that I've ever had to make to it in over 4yrs | is to simply increase the 'break-out counter' to 100,000 instead | of the original 24,000. :))) | | ============================================================================ | | 362) Thu, Nov 30, 2006 - 7:54:36 pm | | ray> | Yeah, one always sleeps a bit uneasy when a bug is 'fixed' without | any knowledge of how it was done, so paradoxicaly I'm glad to have | the 'problem' back. It hid very well because my download display | code is smart enough not to get trapped into showing bogus | information, nevertheless the underlying problem was still | very much there. Now what I'd like to know is why does this | only happen with VESA video mode? My best guess is that some how, | the page in question ends up sending different files depending | on mode, which is why the download ends up in a different state. | | Why does the counter have to be so high? And, seems to me the | real problem is in HTMLread() -- it shouldn't be sending a | read length when its run out of stuff to chew on, something | is faulty there. | | | ============================================================================ | | 363) Fri, Dec 01, 2006 - 11:41:18 am | URL | | Jake> | Killer PDFs exploiting ActiveX: | | http://www.adobe.com/support/security/advisories/apsa06-02.html | | | ============================================================================ | | 364) Fri, Dec 01, 2006 - 4:00:03 pm | | glennmcc> | Ray, | | I think you'll find that it's just a coincidence about VESA mode vs VGA | | The one and only thing that ALL pages or files share in common which | triggers the RDLC bug is ... !knowsize | | No page or GIF whos size is known has even caused it. | | That's why my fix is not used when we know the size of the file in question. | | I'll betcha if you take a very close look at what the GIFs were that | triggered it... you'll fine that they were 'page hit counter' images | whos size is not known ahead of time because they are auto-generated | via the page hit counter script file. Therfore the file does not exist | as a 'static file' in some directory on some server, but rather it is | "built from scratch" each time the page hit counter is accessed so | that when you visit the page today the image it generates is a GIF of | the number 132,099 and when you viasit again in 3 days it's a GIF of | the number 133,123 | | ============================================================================ | | 365) Fri, Dec 01, 2006 - 4:36:22 pm | | glennmcc> | Oh, as to why the 'kick out' point had to be raised from 24,000 to | 32,000 to 96,000....... | (I was mistaken when I said 100,000... it's actually 96,000 now) | | High speed connections to the net is why I had to increase it. | | 24000, was OK on most 56k dialup connections but still did not | cut the mustard for all situations when the file whos size was | unknown was on a fast server. | | 32,000 was working OK for those situations... but once I got this DSL | connection, I found that I had to increase the setting to 96,000 to | stop the RDLC bug. | | Higher speed connection == more loops though that section of | code in the same amount of time. | | ============================================================================ | | 366) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 9:16:47 am | | ray> | McC, | | Thanks for the feedback, Gawd I wish I could get you over your | clean code phobia so's you could help me with this, I gots | logic, I gots coding skill -- but I aint gots no HTML learnin' <;-( | | No doubt this !knowsize thing is part of it, but the VESA vs. HICOLOR | (not VGA) is very real, the page I'm using for testing is: | | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/hindenburg_disaster | | and it seems that your fix works by simply cutting off the page | before it gets to the end. Now, with fix disabled, regardless of | video mode, after an F8, the whole page (sans images) downloads | fine and there are no problems. On 'INS', with HICOLOR, all images | download fine and all is well, with VESA, if the whole page is | there, she crashes, if not (with the fix in place, cutting off | the bottom) what's there shows fine. So this is made explicable | if you are right about the unknown counter at the very bottom | of the page. | | But this kickout has to be a kludge, it seems to me that its gotta | boil down to a delay mechanism, bet if you subsituted a | 'delay(1000)' in place of the 96,000 itterations it would end up | the same. And what does a delay acomplish? It works but why? | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 367) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 9:21:17 am | | ray> | Rereading your post -- could it just be that we need to wait | a second for the unknown thingy to rebuild? Oh, and note that | there are whole cascades of functions that are called in 256 color | modes that are not called in hicolor modes so Arachne does | do things very differently with the two. | | With your code, is does the URL above behave the same way if | your fix is disabled? That is to say, is it OK with hicolor? | | | | ============================================================================ | | 368) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 11:31:01 am | | ray> | I'm trying this: | | | //±6n: RDCL fix code removed, seems I'm ok. | //±8v: BUG! WRONG! If a 'VESA' video mode is used, some pages, like | // en.wikipedia.org/wiki/hindenburg_disaster | // bugger up trying to show some images | // and if you scroll to the point where they should be, she crashes. | // Glenn's fix cuts off the page part way down, and there is no crash. | // My experiment attemps to be a bit more to the point as far as the | // breakout test. Note that with VESA modes, some images on the | // page show red boxes, but there is no crash, and my method will | // download the whole page instead of cutting it off. | | //[ !!glennmcc: begin Feb 24, 2002 | if(i == bflen) // This block can be called several times per page. | { | //. bflenold = bflen; // Remember length of last read. | bflen = sReadHTML(pCache, P.Source); | if(! bflen || P.MemOverflow) // end of page, or out of memory | goto exitloop; | else | i = 0; | } | //. EXPERIMENTAL: | { | static long t0, t1; | //. If we know the size, timer is zeroed, else, start the timer: | t0 = pCache->knowsize ? 0L : time(NULL); | //. The timer is on and we have waited 5 seconds, but we still don't | // know the size, so quit trying. It seems we MUST know the size | // before we can load the image. | if(t0 && (t1 = time(NULL)) > t0 + 5) | { t0 = 0L; Beep(); goto exitloop; } | } | /* | if(bflenold == bflen) retry++; | else retry = 0; | | if(retry > 24000) | { | retry = 0; | goto exitloop; | } | } | */ | //] | | | ... I don't know if the 'bflenold' test is still relevant or not. | however, the above seems more robust, no need to fart around with | a kickout counter that needs stroking based on connection speed | or computer speed etc. | | | ============================================================================ | | 369) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 11:39:17 am | | ray> | And I do have a boggey with VESA: | | HDRAWGIF: | | int Scale DeF (uchar *inbuf, uchar *outbuf) | { | // Parametry : inbuf ... row of original picture | // outbuf ... row of requested picture | // Return : how many times to repeat output row (n >= 0). | int i = 0, j, tx, uch = BACKGR; | FUNCNORM | again: | i++; | if(scl_ty < 0) | { | scl_ty += scl_ny; | tx = scl_tx; | for(j = 0; j < scl_ex; j++) | { | // Here is why my core is buggering up images with VESA modes: | // this code is only called in 256 color modes and with the | // bad image, I get a 'scl_ex' of 26,996! which then goes on | // to crash. Surely there is no such animal as an image that big. | // However, this function is called via MHT's reworked images | // code and there is no way in hell I'm going in there! | | if(scl_ex > 10000) return 0; | | //printf("\rj = %5d, scl_ex = %5d", j, scl_ex); | //FUNCTEMP | if(scl_mode) | { | scl_buf[j] = min(scl_buf[j], *inbuf); | | | ============================================================================ | | 370) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 2:44:57 pm | | glennmcc> | | | You said the RDLC bug happened when it was downloading a small GIF.... | | That's why I mentioned the page hit counter GIF stuff. | | Also, since I was under the impression that it was a GIF that was doing | it to you, I have been looking through the image rendering code in the | SRCs to see what I might find. | | FYI, | | There are no GIFs on your 'testing page'. | | Only JPGs and PNGs which then get converted to BMPs in our cache. | | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/no-gifs.gif | | So.... if it's happening on that page... it's not a GIF that's doing it. | | Does it still happen on that same page if you don't load the images ? | | If so... then I'll start looking in the HTML code instead of the GIF code. | | ============================================================================ | | 371) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 2:48:16 pm | | glennmcc> | re:" with HICOLOR, all images download fine and all is well, | with VESA,..." | | Hmmm, we seem to be missing something here. | | On the video setup page, VESA is the driver chosen on the left side of | the page.... we then choose a video mode on the right side of the page. | | Are you sayiong that you switch the driver on the left side of the page | from VESA to one of the other vid card specific drivers ? | | ============================================================================ | | 372) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 2:51:22 pm | | glennmcc> | "boil down to a delay mechanism, bet if you subsituted a | 'delay(1000)' in place of the 96,000 itterations" | | No... it's not a delay mechanism. | | What is does is to count how many times we have gone through the loop | without getting any more data from the server. | | As soon as we get more data from the server, the countwer resets to zero. | | If however, we go through the loop 96000 time without getting any more | data from the server... we are 'kicked-out' of the loop. | | | ============================================================================ | | 373) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 4:32:45 pm | | ray> | When I talk about vido modes I'm cutting through all the fuzz | and taling about the video mode as Arachne herself refers to | them ... VESA.B, (640x480) 256c, VESA.C (800x600) 256c ... | HI16.J ... etc, it's the first data stored in archne.pck. | | And it seems you are right, the problem isn't with what I thought | were small gifs, but with the top two jpgs. After an F8, the | HTML itself loads fine with HI16.J video (fix or no fix) and | VESA.C is fine fix or no fix until I "INS" for the images, but | as I said in my last post, something goes wrong when those images | are converted in 256c mode "Scale()" get's it into its head that | the image is 26,996 pixels wide !! | | As to not getting more data, rodger that, but it still seems to me | that 96,000 itterations just boils down to waiting, as you see | I just wait 5 seconds and it seems to have the same effect. | | | ============================================================================ | | 374) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 4:40:39 pm | | glennmcc> | It's not just simply "96,000 itterations" | | It is..... | "96,000 itterations without receiving any new data from the server" | | In-order for a 5sec delay to do the same thing.... you would need to | test that no new data was received during that 5 seconds. | | If no new data was received... break-out. | | If new data was received... don't break-out. | | That is what my fix is doing. | | If the counter reaches 96000 without receiving any new data ... break-out. | | If new data is received before the counter reaches 96000.... rest counter | to zero and don't break-out. | | ============================================================================ | | 375) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 4:44:32 pm | | glennmcc> | In addition... a 5 second delay ain't gonna stop the crash on this | P4-1.5ghz machine of mine because it is so fast that when the RDLC bug | hits it runs-away so fast that the crash happens in only 1 to 2 seconds. | | | ============================================================================ | | 376) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 5:03:48 pm | | glennmcc> | //. If we know the size, timer is zeroed, else, start the timer: | t0 = pCache->knowsize ? 0L : time(NULL); | //. The timer is on and we have waited 5 seconds, but we still don't | // know the size, so quit trying. It seems we MUST know the size | // before we can load the image. | | | OK... it is now obvious to me now that you do not understand what | cache->knowsize is refering to. | | If we did not know the size to begin with... we will never know the | size.... no matter if we wait 5sec or 5 years. | | When we ask the server for a file... the HTTP header info either contains | or does not contain the 'content-length:' line. | | It is those files who's header does not containa content-length line | where the RDLC bug happens. | | That is why my fix is not used when we do know the size of the file. | | Have a look at the header info of this page by hitting the equals key. | | Page information for http://www.hi-line.net/~gfeig/brd/misc/mind...Arachne v | file:\arachne\cache\headers\65103745.htt Sat, 02 Dec 2006 19:0 | ____________________________________________________________________________ | HTTP/1.1 200 OK | Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 23:59:24 GMT | Server: Apache/1.3.37 (Unix) mod_mono/1.0.2 mod_jk/1.2.14 mod_auth_passthrou | X-Powered-By: PHP/4.4.2 | Connection: close | Content-Type: text/html | ============================================================================ | URL: http://www.hi-line.net/~gfeig/brd/misc/mindex.php | Local: \arachne\cache\65103745.HTM | ============================================================================ | | | There is no content-length line.... therefore, for this page | cache->knowsize will be 'NUL' | | ============================================================================ | | 377) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 5:06:44 pm | | glennmcc> | Here's the header info from the 1st Jpeg on your test page. | | Page information for http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/th...Arachne v | file:\arachne\cache\headers\65104354.htt Sat, 02 Dec 2006 19:0 | ____________________________________________________________________________ | HTTP/1.0 200 OK | Content-Type: image/jpeg | ETag: "1340306437" | Accept-Ranges: bytes | Last-Modified: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:12:29 GMT | Content-Length: 9751 | Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:40:33 GMT | Server: lighttpd/1.4.13 | X-Cache: HIT from sq8.pmtpa.wmnet | X-Cache-Lookup: HIT from sq8.pmtpa.wmnet:80 | X-Cache: HIT from sq13.wikimedia.org | X-Cache-Lookup: HIT from sq13.wikimedia.org:80 | X-Cache: HIT from sq1.wikimedia.org | X-Cache-Lookup: HIT from sq1.wikimedia.org:80 | Age: 80872 | X-Cache: HIT from sq5.wikimedia.org | X-Cache-Lookup: HIT from sq5.wikimedia.org:80 | Via: 1.0 sq8.pmtpa.wmnet:80 (squid/2.6.STABLE3), 1.0 sq13.wikimedia.org:80 ( | Connection: keep-alive | ============================================================================ | URL: | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bd/Zeppelin_Picture.jpg/ | 300px-Zeppelin_Picture.jpg | Local: \arachne\cache\65104354.JPG | ============================================================================ | | | As we see... there _is_ a content-length line... therefore ... | cache->knowsize will be 9751 bytes. | | ============================================================================ | | 378) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 5:08:27 pm | | glennmcc> | And now the header info of the page itself.... | | Page information for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_dis...Arachne v | file:\arachne\cache\headers\65104339.htt Sat, 02 Dec 2006 19:0 | ____________________________________________________________________________ | HTTP/1.0 200 OK | Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:13:07 GMT | Server: Apache | X-Powered-By: PHP/5.1.4 | Content-Language: en | Vary: Accept-Encoding,Cookie | Cache-Control: private, s-maxage=0, max-age=0, must-revalidate | Last-Modified: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 22:07:04 GMT | Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 | X-Cache: HIT from sq24.wikimedia.org | X-Cache-Lookup: HIT from sq24.wikimedia.org:80 | X-Cache: HIT from sq16.wikimedia.org | X-Cache-Lookup: HIT from sq16.wikimedia.org:80 | X-Cache: HIT from sq18.wikimedia.org | X-Cache-Lookup: HIT from sq18.wikimedia.org:80 | X-Cache: HIT from sq19.wikimedia.org | X-Cache-Lookup: HIT from sq19.wikimedia.org:80 | Age: 168667 | X-Cache: HIT from sq28.wikimedia.org | X-Cache-Lookup: HIT from sq28.wikimedia.org:80 | Via: 1.0 sq24.wikimedia.org:80 (squid/2.6.STABLE5), 1.0 sq16.wikimedia.org:8 | Connection: close | ============================================================================ | URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_disaster | Local: \arachne\cache\65104339.HTM | ============================================================================ | | | No content-lentgth line means... cache->knowsize == NUL | | | ============================================================================ | | 379) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 5:11:43 pm | | glennmcc> | Since the size of the Jpeg file _is_ known...... | niether my fix nor yours gets used for the Jpeg file. | | In both cases (my fix and yours), the fix is only getting used for the | page itself... but not for any of the images. | | ============================================================================ | | 380) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 5:18:30 pm | | glennmcc> | Sorry... one wrong piece of info above. | | cache->knowsize will be 9751 bytes. | | Nope..... cache->knowsize will be 1 | | ---- in http.c --- | | //let's initialize this session. | p->httplen=0; | cache->size=0l; | cache->knowsize=0; | | | | else if(!strcmpi(str,"Content-length")) | { | cache->size=atol(&ptr[2]); | cache->knowsize=1; | | | __________________ | | ============================================================================ | | 381) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 5:20:50 pm | | glennmcc> | So... | | instead of, | | cache->knowsize will be 9751 bytes. | | it is.... | | cache->knowsize will be 1 and cache->size will be 9751 bytes. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 382) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 5:22:15 pm | | glennmcc> | If there is no content-length line in headers... | | cache->knowsize will be 0 | and cache->size will unknown untill the D/L is completed. | | ============================================================================ | | 383) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 5:44:36 pm | | ray> | Hmmm, my test seemed to indicate that eventualy we do know the | size, but what you are saying is that 'knowsize' indicates that | we don't know it at the *start* of downloading vs. having to figure | it out once we've finished, right? | | Strange thing is now that I've found this runaway 'size' thing, | once that is under control I seem to be able to go back to | nothing as far as protection for the rdlc bug. However, just to avoid | more muddy water can you recomend an page that has the rdlc bug | so that I can be sure I'd dealing with apples not oranges? It could | be that the rdlc has been a red herring all this time, it only | changed things for the wrong reason. | | | ============================================================================ | | 384) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 5:46:44 pm | | Eric> | Hey Guys, | | Did you notice, Yogi Bear seems to have scared all | the testers away from the testers page. And...it seems | he may have also influenced the developers. I guess | they're all afraid Ole Yogi will go after their | picnic baskets! Eh?...BooBoo? | | | ============================================================================ | | 385) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 6:01:59 pm | | glennmcc> | OK... it looks like you were barking up the werong tree. | | It looks like what you were having is not the RDLC problem after-all. | | Q: Do you actually know what the RDLC consists of and do you know | what happens when it rears its ugly head ? | | ============================================================================ | | 386) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 6:11:03 pm | | glennmcc> | Here's what happens.... | | We link to a page (such as your test page at wikipedea), which does not | have a content-length line in its headers therefore cache->knowsize==0 | | While the page is downloading, we have the download counter at the | bottom-left showing "Downloading page (nnnn bytes read)" | all of a sudden, the download counter begins to 'run away' | | Hence the name of this problem which CAV coined...... | RDLC == "Runaway Down Load Counter" | | The counter continues to go up & up & up at a very high rate of speed..... | | 100000, 150000, 250350, 10000000, 2 million, 5 million up & up & up, | till finally there is a memory overflow and ... CRASH !!!! | | ============================================================================ | | 387) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 6:25:31 pm | | glennmcc> | This never happens on any HTTP download which _does_ have content-length | in the headers (cache->knowsize==1) | | In addition... it never happens during a Ctrl+Enter background download | in which case we are not rendering the page during the download. | | The bug only raises its ugly head when we are rendering the HTML | during the download of the HTML file. | | Therfore, it never happens when we link to amn HTML file itself. | | But rather it happens only when we link to a directory which by default | then runs a PHP script or an ASP script or something like that which | generates the HTML file 'on the fly'. | | That's why the headers of the download do not contain content-length | (since the file is being genetated on the fly... | the length is not known ahead of time) | | The same situation applies even if we link directly to a PHP script | (such as is the case here since we are linking to mindex.php) | | The PHP file is not what's being sent to us.... but rather, at the | server end the server program itself (Apache in this case), executes the | code in the PHP file and generates an HTML file on the fly. | | That HTML file is sent to us as it is being generated, and it's size is | unknown not only to us... but also to the server itself. | | Niether end knows what its size will be until the PHP script code has | completed execution. | | | ============================================================================ | | 388) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 6:29:39 pm | | glennmcc> | To sum it up, | | Two conditions must exist in order for the RDLC to be triggered. | | 1) no content-length in the headers of an HTML format HTTP download | 2) the HTML being received is being rendered during the download | | If either one of those conditions does not exist..... | the RDLC does not happen. | | ============================================================================ | | 389) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 6:43:56 pm | | glennmcc> | All of that description are facts which I _do_ know to be 100% true. | | Now for the _theory_ of what I _think_ causes this puppy to be triggered | when both of those conditions exist. | | What _seems_ to happen is that the server stops sending data, | but does not tell us that the file is done. | | Since the server did not say | "OK, that's all there is, you can stop looking for anything more"... | | Arachne keeps looking for more data to process in the HTML rendering. | | Since there ain't no more, but nobody told her to stop looking for more, | she loops through the section of code trying to get more. | | Since there ain't no more, but nobody told her to stop looking for more, | she loops through the section of code trying to get more. | | Since there ain't no more, but nobody told her to stop looking for more, | she loops through the section of code trying to get more. | | Every time through the loop.. the DL counter is incremented. | Every time through the loop.. the DL counter is incremented. | Every time through the loop.. the DL counter is incremented. | Every time through the loop.. the DL counter is incremented. | Every time through the loop.. the DL counter is incremented. | | Again, again, again, again............... CRASH !!! | | But..... | if we break-out of the loop after 96000 times without getting any new data | from the server, and then go ahead and finish rendering the page with the | data we already have................ No crash :)))) | | ============================================================================ | | 390) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 7:00:07 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, | | That was a good description...immediately above.... | I just hope you weren't just pulling our tails. | | | ============================================================================ | | 391) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 7:04:10 pm | | glennmcc> | Nope... not pulling any tails. | | That's _really_ how it is. | | ============================================================================ | | 392) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 7:04:58 pm | | glennmcc> | Right now I'mm looking around the net trying to find a page which | consistantly causes the RDLC to happen. | | ============================================================================ | | 393) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 7:13:47 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, | | I have had a couple of those recently but since | you suggested holding down the ALT-M keys I have | managed to stop them. Of course, I can remember | the URL's. | | | ============================================================================ | | 394) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 7:14:33 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | OK... I'm here using v1.70;r.3 which of-course does not have my fix. | | | link to .... http://www.seniornet.org/php/default.php | | Let about 15000 bytes download and then hit ESC to stop the | download in mid-stream. | | If the counter does not bwegin to 'runaway' but rather the partial download | gets rendered... hit 'R' to reload and the download will start over. | | Hit ESC again to stop the download mid-stream to see if the RDLC happens. | | Keep hitting R' to reload and then ESC to abort at the 10 to 15 k point | several times... it only took me a couple of times to trigger the RDLC | and the counter kept going and going and going at a fantasticly fast | rate till it rached 100000, 300000, 1000000, 2 million, 4m, 5m, | up, up, up .... CRASH !!!! | | | | ============================================================================ | | 395) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 7:18:04 pm | | Eric> | Just pulling your leg, also can't type, ... | I can't remember and RDLC URL's. | | | | | | | | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 396) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 7:24:58 pm | | Eric> | glennmcc, | | I got it a-running-away and then stopped it with ALT-E. | I tried ALT-M but that didn't seem to be working. | | | ============================================================================ | | 397) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 7:32:22 pm | | glennmcc> | Yep... on that particular page, the RDLC _can_ be stopped. | | In most case tho... it keeps on going till it crashes and nothing will | stop it. | | That page is good for testing since on that one it is | quite easy to trigger the RDLC. | | ============================================================================ | | 398) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 8:22:19 pm | | ray> | Ewwe, nasty. I couldn't stop the runaway with 190J1 using ESC at | all and she crashed. And it seems I was wrong about my still | having this bug because my core doesn't runaway there -- tho | for some reason the ESC key doens't want to work there, so maybe | that's the reason -- it's not a fair test. | | | ============================================================================ | | 399) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 8:24:29 pm | | ray> | ESC usualy works, but not on that, it just insists on downloading, | hmmm, tho it will stop eventualy and the whole page is not there, | so it just seems to be slow about responding to the ESC. | | BTW, Eric is right, this is work and should be on the coders or | testers board. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 400) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 9:26:50 pm | | glennmcc> | Did you try it with both my fix and your fix disabled ? | | ============================================================================ | | 401) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 9:28:36 pm | | glennmcc> | With either one of our fixes in-place, it will be much harder to 'trigger'. | | You need to disable both of them so that you can see exacly what happens. | | ============================================================================ | | 402) Sat, Dec 02, 2006 - 9:31:06 pm | | glennmc> | Oh yeah.. and be sure to have 'ESC Ignore' in Arachne.cfg so that you | don't end up erroniously going back in history or exiting completely | when you hit ESC. | | With 'ESC Ignore' ... the only thing that will happen is that the page | download will be aborted. | | | ============================================================================ | | 403) Sun, Dec 03, 2006 - 8:34:27 am | | ray> | Yeah, it's all disabled, but still no runaway -- seems I do have | that 'fixed' after all, and what I do have is a BMP rendition bug | that was hidden by the page chopping of the other. | | | ============================================================================ | | 404) Sun, Dec 03, 2006 - 12:18:29 pm | | ray> | Seems the BMP rendering bug only happens when the image is | imperfectly downloaded .... due to the RDLC stuff ... | sheesh, this isn't fun anymore. | | | ============================================================================ | | 405) Sun, Dec 03, 2006 - 2:06:29 pm | | glennmcc> | Well sir... you must have something else entirely that is going wrong, | because RDLC effects one thing and only one thing... the downloading of | HTML files via HTTP which do not have a content-length line in header | which are being rendered during the download. | | The stuff in the RDLC fix does nothing more than abort the attempt of | getting more data when none is being sent by the server. | And only for HTML files.... not images. And only when we are rendering | the page during the download. | | | ============================================================================ | | 406) Sun, Dec 03, 2006 - 2:10:14 pm | | glennmcc> | The RDLC is not used for image downloads except in one case...... | | The page hit counter GIFs I mentioned before. | | The RDLC fix does not get used during the download of any of the images | on your test page because every image _does_ contain a content-length | line in its headers. | | ============================================================================ | | 407) Sun, Dec 03, 2006 - 2:17:45 pm | | ray> | It's looking like all that code is used both during download | and then again during render from disk, no question, if I | kickout to soon (my method or yours) some pages are incomplete. | and the fix has a bearing on what happens with images -- or so it | seems, but this again could be some strange red herring, however, | if the kickout is too quick, I get partial downloads of images, | so there might be more to this than you think. I dunno, not | in any possition to say anything for sure just yet. | | | ============================================================================ | | 408) Sun, Dec 03, 2006 - 2:25:42 pm | | glennmcc> | Are you speaking of situations where you have auto-download of images | turned on? | | | ============================================================================ | | 409) Sun, Dec 03, 2006 - 5:07:35 pm | | ray> | Yeah, auto download is on, but after an F8 we always get the HTML | sans images anyway so I figure it doesn't matter here. | I'm about ready to give this thing a rest, it's so blasted | complex. Which reminds me, as we were discussing before this | whole mess came up, what's a link where I can verify your | method for the 'stair step' bug. I want to get that over and done, | I suspect your method is correct but I'd like to see it with my | own eyes. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 410) Sun, Dec 03, 2006 - 5:58:31 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/aligntest.htm | | ============================================================================ | | 411) Sun, Dec 03, 2006 - 8:32:20 pm | | ray> | Thanks, now that I recall, you sent it before, but I was looking | at the wrong thing -- yep, your fix solves it. BTW what was your | tag for that, (glennmcc!! ...) I want to give credit as due. | (Oh, and you get the full copyleft since your fix was better) < g g g> | | | | ============================================================================ | | 412) Sun, Dec 03, 2006 - 8:53:02 pm | | glennmcc> | Here's the 'tag' I use..... | | //!!glennmcc & Ray_Andrews: Nov 22, 2006 -- fix 'stair-step' effect in
< | //example: http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/aligntest.htm | | ============================================================================ | | 413) Mon, Dec 04, 2006 - 3:21:56 pm | | ray> | Ok, but get my name outa there, the 'real' fix is all yours ;-) | | | ============================================================================ | | 414) Mon, Dec 04, 2006 - 3:33:04 pm | | glennmcc> | You're not getting out of it that easy. ;-) | | My original fix did not do the job properly. | | It was a combination of my fix and yours that did it. | | So we both take credit. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 415) Mon, Dec 04, 2006 - 5:49:27 pm | | ray> | Glenn, | | Where is the 'red box' for images drawn? And what exactly does it | convey? Seems to me that when a page is loaded without any image | files available the image box is silver, but when an image is | present, but there is some sort of trouble it is red, is that | right? Thing is, with that 'hindenburg' page, with a VESA mode, | when scrolling down from the top, the 3'd image shows up first as a | red box when it becomes visible on the bottom, but when the image | has cleared the bottom of the window, it pops into view with | no trouble. There is no such trouble at the top of the window -- | if it's only partialy visible, what is seen is fine. I'm trying | to figure out what the hell is going on there. My code behaves | with way going right back to base 6. | | up on the bottom of the screen | | ============================================================================ | | 416) Mon, Dec 04, 2006 - 5:51:56 pm | | ray> | Oh, and using VESA.C mode exclusively now, I can't find any other | pages that have this problem, is there some strange thing in the | HTML? I'm inclined to suspect that this is due to something MHT | did when he rewrote the image code in my sources, but I'm far | from sure. | | | ============================================================================