MISCELLANEOUS Message Board http://www.hi-line.net/~gfeig/brd/misc/mindex.php Sun, 02 Oct 2005 07:32:23 _________________________________________________ | ============================================================================ | | 1) Fri, Jul 01, 2005 - 1:18:10 am | | gregy> | Okay....the new-style | board is up. | ........ | The Archives (link below) | .......... | are up, and it | .............. | looks like we're in business | .......... | | | ============================================================================ | | 2) Fri, Jul 01, 2005 - 1:23:30 am | | gregy> | Okay... | Back with Arachne, and | it's looking alright | ......... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 3) Sat, Jul 02, 2005 - 5:46:49 am | | | Very nice. :-) | | | ============================================================================ | | 4) Sat, Jul 02, 2005 - 10:38:40 am | | gregy> | Well, glad you like it. ..!!! | | And, I can't take any credit for it. It's all Glennmcc's fault... | ....... | 'Cause he's the dude who wrote/rewrote/rerewrote all these board | scripts.... | .. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 5) Sat, Jul 02, 2005 - 2:34:40 pm | | glennmcc> | Nope.... I can't take the credit for it either. | | It's still True's code... all I did was to tweak it a little bit to | suit our needs. | | Thanks again, True. :)) | | ============================================================================ | | 6) Sun, Jul 03, 2005 - 2:24:09 am | | gregy> | yes...we stand on the shoulders of giants..... | .. | And, True got his idea for doing it from Robin....who was instigated | by Michael.....he he....HE's TO BLAME....!!!!!! | ... | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 7) Sun, Jul 03, 2005 - 4:47:33 pm | | Little_Birdie> | gregy, there's a reply to your Q over on Jake's board | | ============================================================================ | | 8) Sun, Jul 03, 2005 - 11:29:19 pm | | gregy> | Thanks, Glenn...went there first...and got it... | | Also, If you want to bang on one of these boards, you have blanket | permission to bang on my /TEST/.... | | he he he....we won't lose any "significant posts" over there... | | | ============================================================================ | | 9) Tue, Jul 12, 2005 - 2:51:37 am | | gregy> | Now posting using ArachneOS2, which is a standard v.1.83 installed on a | native OS/2 RAMdisk, still using the Arachne Miniterm/EPPPD dialup and | PPP connect, rather than the OS/2 DUN. | .. | It seems to work pretty well. I have 115,584bytes DOS free mem now as | I'm connected ONLINE. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 10) Sun, Jul 17, 2005 - 2:40:17 pm | | gregy> | Good grief...!!! I have been tweaking with my DRDOS load environment, | and I just achieved 182,704bytes ONLINE... For all the past 5-6 years | running Arachne, I have ONLY best been running at 112,???bytes ONLINE, | and now, finally getting EPPPD to HILOAD, I'm ONLINE with that big | 182,704bytes...sheesh..!!! | .. | I don't know what affect this will have on my surfing performance, but | it doesn't seem to be hurting it any..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 11) Mon, Jul 18, 2005 - 7:20:10 pm | | gregy> | NOTICE - my ISP's backbone-net connections are bad, flakey, in-and-out, | so you might find my boards down intermittantly.. | | | ============================================================================ | | 12) Tue, Jul 19, 2005 - 9:31:20 pm | | gregy> | Glenn, | | I have done a bunch of things to my DRDOS6.0 to try to get XMSDSK to be | able to load. Nothing I could do seemed to help.....and...it appears | to be with DRDOS6.0, itself...because I did a sneaky...and swapped the | HIMEM.SYS and EMM386.SYS, plus associated AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS | entries, from my MSDOS6.22, and substituted them for DRDOS6.0 versions | of EMM386.SYS......and...guess what.....they worked... | .... | he he he...seems like these memory managers are sort of "OperatingSystem | Agnostic"....I mean, loading the MSDOS memmgrs, instead of the DRDOS | memmgrs didn't lock anything up, and it seemed to work alright.....but.. | ..even with the MSDOS memmgrs subbed for the DRDOS ones, the XMSDSK | attempt to load remained the same. It said it loaded, gave me the | XMSDSK version, then the cursor dropped down about two lines and locked | the system up..... | ...so..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 13) Tue, Jul 19, 2005 - 9:38:33 pm | | gregy> | It is probably (probably, even though it could still turn out to be | something I'm not setting right when I do a complete new DRDOS6.0 | SETUP), probably something about DRDOS6.0, itself, that it doesn't like, | and can't work with. | ... | I know it isn't the hardware, because the MSDOS6.22 boots on this same | box (using IBM BootManager) and XMSDSK runs fine under that. | ... | So....I'm gonna try to swap-out my DRDOS6.0 OperatingSystem for either | the OPDOS7.01 or the DRDOS7.03..... | ... | I know that both of those EMM386.SYSes will not allow me to C-A-D (but | instead, force me to PWR OFF), but I can live with that.... | ... | So, which one would you recommend, and please give me a little insight | into your reason(s) for recommending the one you recommend... | | | ============================================================================ | | 14) Tue, Jul 19, 2005 - 9:44:23 pm | | gregy> | Oh, BTW, you remember that I eBay-bought a QEMM set and could use that | for the memmgr, but...but....if I'm testing, and trying to run/test a | "mimimal box" I want to, at least, try to run the stock stuff, instead | of running special stuff that the ordinary JeeDuhnewUser (JDnewU) can't | get....whereas, the OpenDOS7.01 and DRDOS7.03 stuff is freely available | .... | | ============================================================================ | | 15) Wed, Jul 20, 2005 - 5:04:42 pm | | glennmcc> | My prfered DOS is OpenDos v7.01 rather than DR-DOS 7.03 | | 1) does everything I need to do | 2) smaller footprint in memory than 7.03 | 3) better memory management with emm386 included with 7.01 | 4) it's still 100% free for non commercial use | (the licence for 7.03 is very vague on that matter and Device Logics | probably _woudn't_ but never-the-less _could_ enforce the stipulations | of the 7.03 licence and force us to either stop[ using it or pay for a | licence to continue using it) | | 5) I naver found so much as a single advantage that 7.03 has over 7.01 | | ____ | | DR-DOS v8.0 on the other hand has one advantage over both 7.01 and 7.03 | "Native FAT32 support" for both reading from and writing to FAT32 HDD | partitions. | | With all of the earlier versions, we can load DR-FAT32.SYS which allows | us to read data from a FAT32 partition, but it does not support writing | of data to the FAT32 partition. | | It simply 'mounts' that partition as read only just as-if we had done | this in Linux... | | mkdir /fat32 | mount /dev/hda3 /fat32 -tvfat -r | | Now for the disadvantages that I have seen in v8.0 which I purchased | from Device Logics a little over a month ago. | | The only 3 files that have been updated are... | | IBMBIO.COM | IBMDOS.COM and | COMMAND.COM | | Evertyhing else you get for the 25 dollar licence fee are the 'utility' | files from Dr-DOS v7.03 | | I purchased my licence for v8.0 on June 2nd. | | This is the Email I sent on June 6th to-which I have not recieved a reply. | | ____________________________________________________________________________ | | | "Glenn McCorkle" | From: Arachne Fan Club | | To: Troy Tribe | | Reply-to:glennmcc@cisnet.com | | CC: Bryce Burns Bryce Burns < | bryce@devicelogics.com> | | Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:06:31 -0500 | | Mailer: Arachne v1.85;UE08 | | Subject: Re: Notification of Payment Received | | ============================================================================ | | To whom it may concern, | | The zip file which was attached to this email and was named DR_DOS_8.ZIP | contained not DrDos v8... but rather contains the 1.44mb diskette | install set for the utilities included with Caldera DrDos v7.03 | | --- contents of zip file ---- | Archive: /arachne/cache/dr_dos_8.zip | Length Method Size Ratio Date Time CRC-32 Name | -------- ------ ------- ----- ---- ---- ------ ---- | 1474979 Defl:N 1283500 13% 11-27-02 11:25 00227b83 disk01.144 | 1474979 Defl:N 1255622 15% 11-27-02 11:25 b0b1b4c1 disk02.144 | 1474979 Defl:N 646542 56% 11-27-02 11:25 ced73966 disk03.144 | 12899 Defl:N 5211 60% 11-27-02 11:31 15d458a5 LICENSE.TXT | 145 Defl:N 123 15% 03-19-03 14:43 0110fcf5 README | 190 Defl:N 96 50% 03-19-03 16:18 d1583d70 MKFLPY.BAT | 16608 Defl:N 8771 47% 03-19-03 14:40 cd803bc3 RAWRITE2.EXE | -------- ------- --- ------- | 4454779 3199865 28% 7 files | _____________________________ | | I already received an email a few days ago from Wendi Nelson which | included the single 1.44mb disk image of DrDos v8 boot disk in the | file named DRDOS8BO.ZIP | | --- contents of zip file ---- | Archive: /arachne/cache/drdos8bo.zip | Length Method Size Ratio Date Time CRC-32 Name | -------- ------ ------- ----- ---- ---- ------ ---- | 1474560 Defl:N 1162230 21% 04-21-04 09:56 4f2094a3 IMAGE.FLP | 7053 Defl:N 3340 53% 04-21-04 09:46 eeb504ed LICENSE.TXT | 27 Stored 27 0% 04-21-04 09:22 369c47c5 MKFLPY.BAT | 16608 Defl:N 8771 47% 04-21-04 09:22 cd803bc3 RAWRITE2.EXE | 511 Defl:N 311 39% 04-21-04 09:49 6816f9c6 README | -------- ------- --- ------- | 1498759 1174679 22% 5 files | _____________________________ | | Now on to other matters. | | Since I now have the boot files for DrDos v8 | | What about all of the rest of the utilities ? | | Right now I am running a system which is almost '100% pure' OpenDos v7.01 | | Has DeviceLogics updated any or all of the utilities that go along | with the boot files to then make a 'complete system'. | | And if so, when will they be available so that I can upgrade to a | complete system running nothing but DrDos v8 ? | | I would very much like to upgrade so that all of the utility | files could be replaced with their DrDos v8 counter-parts. | | Is this going to be possible in the near future ? | Or are the utility files for DrDos v7.03 the best I can hope for ? | | ____________________________________________________________________________ | | | | ============================================================================ | | 16) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 2:21:26 am | | gregy> | Glenn....thank you for your comprehensive reply. I have already come | to the conclusion that OpDOS7.01 would be the best to switch to, but | I wanted your input, also. AND, a large influence on my choice was, | apart from the "not any great(if any) improvement" from 7.01-to-7.03, | that you are using 7.01 extensively, and I knew. if I got into trouble, | I could always holler..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 17) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 2:22:36 am | | gregy> | I have already prepared my C:\ partition, to accept the 7.01, and I | will load it later tonight... | | | ============================================================================ | | 18) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 4:15:41 am | | gregy> | GOT IT...!!!!! | ... | Glenn, am here on my new OpDOS7.01 install..... | ... | he he he....being sorta a sneaky type, I cheated.... | .. | My DOS in always installed to my C:\DRDOS directory....so... | I renamed my existing C:\DRDOS to C:\DR60, MadeDir DR701, ReName to | C:\DRDOS, attribed my existing IBMBIO and IBMDOS files and wiped the | root. Stuck the Disk #1 in A: and rebooted...... | ... | Slicker-n-snot.... | .. | A little tweaking of AUTOEXEC and CONFIG, to adjust paths, etc, and | disable SETVER, caching, etc....reboot, load Arachne (he loaded with | 188,688bytes DOS mem free....and ALT-D...and....voila...!!!! here I | am....with 188,000bytes DOS mem free.... | .. | The thing seems to be working flawlessly....now that I've said that, | it will prolly go to pot...but...it looks like this is my new DOS | OperatingSystem..... | ... | And, I know that effen I gets swarmed, you'll stand back and cheer... | ..... | BTW....haven't, yet tested XMSDSK on this new OS install, am using the | standard VDISK, but I'm confident it'll work. I mean, after all, YOU | can get it to work..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 19) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 7:14:16 am | | gregy> | yep...XMSDSK works like a charm, on OpDOS7.01........ | | | ============================================================================ | | 20) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 7:54:20 am | | telemarketer> | well..... I see...... | | you didn't invite ME over here..... | | oh well, I'm used to being 'persona non grata', after all, I AM a telemarke | | ============================================================================ | | 21) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 5:44:57 pm | | glennmcc> | Gregy, | | FANTASTIC !!!! | | Welcome the world of 'trouble free computing'. :-) | | Now.... once you've gotten used to OpenDos 7.01 using EMM386 for memory mana | | Install Qemm and give that a try. | | Have a look at the memory stats while inside of Arachne. | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | | Conventional 655,360 ( 640K ) 642,928 ( 628K ) | Upper 282,128 ( 276K ) 89,264 ( 87K ) | High 65,520 ( 64K ) 3,128 ( 3K ) | Extended 67,043,328 ( 65,472K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 6,814,720 ( 6,655K ) | EMS 267,517,952 ( 261,248K) 163,348,480 ( 159,520K) | | Largest executable program: 642,912 ( 628K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 732,192 ( 715K ) | | ------------ | | Conventional memory: | Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex | | DOS 88,048 ( 85K ) 157F0 | QEMM386$ 768 ( 0K ) 300 | COMMAND 1,936 ( 1K ) 790 | FREE 642,928 ( 627K ) 9CF70 | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | Extended 67,043,328 ( 65,472K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 6,814,720 ( 6,655K ) | EMS 267,517,952 ( 261,248K) 163,348,480 ( 159,520K) | | Largest executable program: 642,912 ( 628K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 732,192 ( 715K ) | | | | ============================================================================ | | 22) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 5:46:12 pm | | glennmcc> | Hi Tele :) | | ============================================================================ | | 23) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 9:34:14 pm | | gregy> | tele....you know you're always welcome...I didn't think I hadda issue | an invite..... | .. | And...iffen you'd go to Glenn's main Arachne page, you'll find a link | to this board right there..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 24) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 9:39:28 pm | | gregy> | yes, Glenn...that's what I eBay-bought QEMM for........but...for | right now, I want to get used to the 701 memmgr, and see about it's | quirks, if any. | ... | After all, when we get JDnewU coming on board with Arachne, we are going | to point him/her to OpDOS7.01 "stock" as it stands, without QEMM, and | we want to be able to recommend that combination with pretty full | knowledge of it. | .. | Also, I'm going to put those 4-each FreeDOS .IMGs on floppies and | install them, just as soon as I get DRDOS6.0 cleared out to make room. | .. | Then I'll use the FrDOS and OpDOS alternately, and can then recommend | either.....hmmmm....well, that is, if FreeDOS works out.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 25) Fri, Jul 22, 2005 - 12:56:56 pm | | glennmcc> | Yep, good idea to get used to the 'stock' stuff first. | | Here's one limitation you'll find with EMM386 vs Qemm | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | | Conventional 654,336 ( 639K ) 638,224 ( 623K ) | Upper 126,976 ( 124K ) 68,464 ( 67K ) | High 65,520 ( 64K ) 3,128 ( 3K ) | Extended 67,043,328 ( 65,472K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 65,511,424 ( 63,976K ) | | Largest executable program: 638,208 ( 623K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 706,688 ( 690K ) | | | As we see.... EMM386 can only 'see' 64meg out of my 256meg of RAM | | Therefore, I can't setup my huge 100meg RamDrive when using EMM386 | | XMSDSK.EXE 100000 L: /c1 /y | | ============================================================================ | | 26) Fri, Jul 22, 2005 - 1:05:51 pm | | glennmcc> | Qemm can 'see' all of it. | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | | Conventional 655,360 ( 640K ) 643,136 ( 628K ) | Upper 282,128 ( 276K ) 118,576 ( 116K ) | High 65,520 ( 64K ) 3,128 ( 3K ) | Extended 67,043,328 ( 65,472K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 6,814,720 ( 6,655K ) | EMS 267,517,952 ( 261,248K) 265,764,864 ( 259,536K) | | Largest executable program: 643,120 ( 628K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 761,712 ( 744K ) | | ============================================================================ | | 27) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 2:24:25 am | | gregy> | I think I understand that you're saying 701EMM386 can only see 64Mbyte | ...??? | Which, for JDnewU would probably be sufficient for introducing him/her | to Arachne (I mean, does Arachne really NEED to run on 64Mbyte...???) | .... | And, I have no boxes with >64Mbyte currently installed....BUT, whenever | I upgrade this old AT P133 to 128Mbyte, I'm gonna need my QEMM...??? | ... | Oh, and not to mention my 3 "new" AT mobos with IBM/Cyrix P150+ CPUs | that take 256Mbytes, or the two "new" ATX mobos with Socket A (?) | 266MHz-300MHz CPUs that take 512Mbytes.... | | I'd better get my QEMM dusted off..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 28) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 2:28:24 am | | gregy> | Which brings up the question. I've unzipped and installed (then wiped) | the QEMM 7.5 I bought (along with the 8.0 that came with it)...as per | our discussion that 7.5 was just fine, and you recommended it rather | than the 8.0.... | ... | Now, when I did that, and read the manuals, and readmes, etc, it looks | like a whole lot of extraneous stuff gets put on my disk (which is why | I wiped it after checking it). | QUESTION - Just what files do I need for minimum QEMM functionality | (just the memory manager part of it)....???? | | | ============================================================================ | | 29) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 3:07:01 pm | | glennmcc> | After getting it all setup by running the included 'optimize.exe' | | The 3 files will be needed.... | | DOS-UP.DAT 54 2-14-01 12:54a | DOS-UP.SYS 34982 11-22-94 7:50a | QEMM386.SYS 233803 4-08-97 10:26p | | All else that comes with it is only needed during setup/opimization. | | ============================================================================ | | 30) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 3:15:21 pm | | glennmcc> | Have a look at the contents of my 'utilities diskette' for working on | machines with 'dead hard drives'. | | rsa-h- 27,880 2-27-97 7:01a a:\ibmbio.com | rsa-h- 30,081 2-27-97 7:01a a:\ibmdos.com | --a--- 265 7-23-05 4:11p a:\autoexec.bat | --a--- 537 8-05-03 8:11p a:\cdload.bat | ------ 59,500 2-27-97 7:01a a:\chkdsk.exe | --a--- 55,077 2-27-97 7:01a a:\command.com | --a--- 269 8-12-03 9:40p a:\config.sys | --a--- 3,917 1-01-92 12:00a a:\ddl.com | ------ 19,291 2-27-97 7:01a a:\fdisk.com | ------ 22,716 2-27-97 7:01a a:\format.com | ------ 180,384 5-31-00 8:22p a:\gdisk.exe | --a--- 17 1-01-80 4:55p a:\gds.bat | --a--- 31,824 1-06-97 12:57p a:\ltnide.sys | ------ 16,492 2-27-97 7:01a a:\mem.exe | --a--- 85 7-23-05 4:12p a:\menu.bat | ------ 1,818 9-12-99 6:53p a:\menu.txt | ------ 16,076 2-27-97 7:01a a:\mode.com | --a--- 21,737 2-27-97 7:01a a:\nwcdex.exe | --a--- 29,378 2-01-93 2:04a a:\pkunzip.exe | --a--- 42,166 2-01-93 2:04a a:\pkzip.exe | ------ 16,764 2-27-97 7:01a a:\sys.com | ------ 100,875 2-27-97 7:01a a:\undelete.exe | --a--- 25 7-23-05 4:12p a:\xp.bat | --a--- 56,425 3-10-92 3:10a a:\mouse\2mouse.com | --a--- 24 1-18-94 8:00p a:\mouse\2mouse.ini | --a--- 55,169 3-10-92 3:10a a:\mouse\2mouse.sys | ------ 4,767 1-01-01 1:08a a:\mouse\ctmouse.exe | --a--- 13,740 3-31-92 3:23p a:\mouse\mouse.com | --a--- 24 2-28-97 2:35p a:\mouse\mouse.ini | --a--- 4,434 4-01-92 10:33a a:\mouse\readme.txt | --a--- 22,651 10-19-91 4:22p a:\mouse\test.exe | ------ 35,020 12-19-96 10:11p a:\opendos\nwcache.exe | ------ 33,551 12-19-96 10:11p a:\opendos\nwcache.ov1 | ------ 29,465 12-19-96 10:11p a:\opendos\nwcache.ov2 | ------ 54 2-14-01 12:54a a:\qemm\dos-up.dat | ------ 34,982 11-22-94 7:50a a:\qemm\dos-up.sys | ------ 233,803 4-08-97 10:26p a:\qemm\qemm386.sys | ------ 46,510 11-19-87 4:15a a:\xtpro\xtpro.com | ------ 24,470 10-23-87 2:27p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x01 | ------ 4,040 10-23-87 2:27p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x02 | ------ 15,068 10-23-87 2:27p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x10 | ------ 15,307 10-23-87 2:27p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x20 | ------ 13,397 10-23-87 2:27p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x30 | ------ 14,034 10-23-87 2:28p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x40 | total files 44 total bytes 1,334,109 disk free space 108,544 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 31) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 4:36:24 pm | | telemarketer> | | Hi gregy... yes I know I'm welcome here, I was just 'funnin' witch ya ;) | | | | ============================================================================ | | 32) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 10:01:30 pm | | gregy> | hi tele...I knew that you knew that I knew that you knew that I | knew..... | ... | And, I can alus benefit from a little being "funned with"....I mean, | life's so serious, it's not necessary to take it too seriously... | ... | effen ya know what I mean..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 33) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 10:02:59 pm | | gregy> | Okay, Glenn...thanks for the info and hints. That diskette of yours | looks kinda like my "Disaster Diskette".......most of those | things have their equivalent on mine.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 34) Wed, Jul 27, 2005 - 4:36:53 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Dear fellow Arachne fans....... | | I have just now uploaded v1.85;GPL,386+ | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/ | | --- on the front page --- | Arachne v1.71, v1.73, v1.75, v1.77, v1.79, v1.81 | and v1.83 are no longer available on this site. | | Available Jul 27, 2005...... Arachne v1.85;GPL,386+ | ___________________________________________________ | | Enjoy !!! :) | | ============================================================================ | | 35) Thu, Jul 28, 2005 - 4:57:45 am | | gregy> | Yep...gots it installed on both my OpDOS701 and my Warp3C...and it's | here, right now...on the Warp....and both installs working "finest | kind"........ | | | ============================================================================ | | 36) Fri, Jul 29, 2005 - 4:28:39 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Got bored last evening... 'dressed-up' the page that shows my site stats. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 37) Sat, Jul 30, 2005 - 12:16:02 am | | gregy> | well...that kinda looks schmaltzee.... | ... | As you may have noticed, I have your Arachne d/l directory, with the | GPL announcement, in my email signature, now (don't know why I never | did it before....just numb, I guess), and you'll prolly get even more | hits, at least, on that...... | .... | BTW...I notice you've been somewhat quiet the past few days (since you | released 1.85..???)...I hope it's just that you're taking a well | deserved rest, and not that you're having difficulties....??? | | | ============================================================================ | | 38) Sat, Jul 30, 2005 - 12:18:42 am | | gregy> | BTW2....nice job on 1.85....I'm never gonna fullsomely praise you (don't | wanna explode your head........)...but...consider this: | ... | You've managed to suck-in a crotchety old slowpoke like me, to do a | couple swift installs, and start using it majorly....and I haven't | griped, yet (just wait, though.......).... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 39) Sat, Jul 30, 2005 - 12:21:03 am | | gregy> | BTW3....I'm in the thoes of commissioning (I think) another, bigger box, | and once I get it all installed, etc...I'm gonna want to start | "uncommenting the extra goodies" and getting more into utilizing Arachne | for MultiMedia stuff...so....brace yourself....you KNOW I'll have lotsa | dumb questions.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 40) Sat, Jul 30, 2005 - 6:28:14 am | | gregy> | Hey....!!! I'm here on my "new" Pentium-S 133MHz box, Arachne 1.85.. | ... | and...it's blindingly fast.....(well, of course, 133Mhz is just a tad | bit swifter.........) | ... | Had the devil of a time trying to detect my modem.../it's internal - | yeah, I know...BAD,BAD,BAD..but the box originally belonged to my older | sister, who retired it into the safe keeping of my younger sister, who | ....passed it to me, "If you can make any use of it....".... | ... | And, who can change a sister's bad habits (whingedoze, internal PCI | modems, etc)... | .. | Finally, I just said, "The heck with it." and loaded my .ACFs, .BATS, | etc, etc, into it, launched it, and ALT-D....voila..!!!....here I am... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 41) Mon, Aug 01, 2005 - 2:49:26 am | | gregy> | welp...buggered the P133, tonight.........it looks like the video | card went, or the motherboard PCI bridge that services the PCI slot(s) | ....the box seems to boot alright, because I get no beeps, and can see | the scan/setup of the keyboard, etc...so ... it looks like the video. | ... | My dandy 17" Dell-branded Sony Trinitron gives me the warning light, | and the on-screen box stating "Out of Scan Range".....usually meaning | it has lost the video signal....but...hey...tomorrow's another day, | and I gots a handful of vidcards to swap in and out....both ISA and | PCI.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 42) Mon, Aug 01, 2005 - 11:56:29 am | | telemarketer> | | hi gregy | | | how's the P133 working out now ? I got a P-120 that's got dos and win3.1 on | 32 ??? I don't remember. I use it mainly for generating my telemarketing dia | | | ============================================================================ | | 43) Tue, Aug 02, 2005 - 1:09:43 am | | gregy> | tele...I haven't isolated the problem, yet.....all I can tell at present | is that when I boot/reboot, I get nothing on the screen, but it seems | to go, at least, partway through the POST... | .. | I'm gonna hafta pull those new RAMchips out, reinstall the originals | (return to original config, as is the proper troubleshooting technique) | then go from there. | .... | I have several different video cards (both ISA and PCI) to swap in and | out, so I can probably get something that way, also. | ... | However, in a pinch...I'll just replace the mobo, with one of the new | AT mobos, with IBM/Cyrix P150+ CPU and 128MbyteRAM...and go from there. | .. | That is, if the mobo just WON'T boot-video whatever I do... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 44) Tue, Aug 16, 2005 - 5:01:03 am | URL | | chary> | | If you want to have a better life just try this one so that our life would b | | You know I’m a smoker for a couple years then I decided to quit, my friend t | successful with my aim. | Now I’m very proud to that product. | Ten Reasons To Quit Smoking | 1. 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No more second hand smoke to your lovely baby. | | Information: | | Just visit our site: http://partnerclicks.net/click.php?APID=2&affID=0001017 | Call Tel. #: 63-32-412-4084 | Internet phone: 0303-4710-7565 | Our Address in Japan is: | Kawai Bldg 6F, 1-32-6, Higashi-Ikebukuro, Toshima-ku, Tokyo, Japan 170-0013 | TEL # (Japan) : 81-3-5960-5222 | FAX # (Japan): 81-3-5960-5225 | Note: If you are willing to buy our product just visit this link: http://par | at the upper portion of the site, then choose what flavor do you want, you c | “Order” again then click to “Proceed to checkout then fill-up the form there | | What you are waiting for ORDER NOW!!! | | | Hope you enjoy our product: NosmoQ | | ============================================================================ | | 45) Tue, Aug 23, 2005 - 2:47:15 am | | | chary>: | I agree that smoking is bad, but what really pisses me off are spammers of | internet and you are killing it.Why don't you get up off of your fat ass and | their health just so you can turn a quit profit. | #I fart in your general direction.# | | | | ============================================================================ | | 46) Wed, Aug 24, 2005 - 1:01:05 am | | gregy> | Well, I'm glad you farted in her direction. It would have been a real | horror if you'da stunk up the board..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 47) Wed, Aug 24, 2005 - 1:02:12 am | | gregy> | BTW, ....I think that's the first spammer we've had on any of | our message boards... Can you remember any others on any of our | boards....??? | | | ============================================================================ | | 48) Wed, Aug 24, 2005 - 3:16:25 am | | glennmcc> | short memory. | | This very board was spammed several times shortly after you started it. | | | ============================================================================ | | 49) Wed, Aug 24, 2005 - 3:26:48 am | | glennmcc> | | ========================================================================== | | Fri, Jan 23, 2004 - 5:48:55 pm | | | | ???> | | jh, enjoy your good fortune! The rest of us like to enjoy a tough life. | | | | ========================================================================== | | | | Sat, Jan 24, 2004 - 5:49:07 am | | | | Lunar> | | Not a pyramid scheme? If it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck, | | etc. | | | | | | ========================================================================== | | | | Sat, Jan 24, 2004 - 3:35:36 pm | | | | gregy> | | he he...looks like the spammers have found the board......... | | ..oh, well....it all goes away....whenever I decide it's too full... | | ... | | ... | | Oh, and Lunar.....nah....that could NOT, POSSIBLY, be a pyramid scheme | | ... | | ... | | It's REALLY a duck..... | | | | | | ========================================================================== | | ============================================================================ | | 50) Wed, Aug 24, 2005 - 10:03:10 pm | | gregy> | Ahhh, yes...I had forgotten........but...that'll be easy to pull | from the archive, when I archive it, and it doesn't seem to happen too | often... | ... | I haven't seen it happen to your AQC, but I've prolly missed it...but | it doesn't happen too often over there, either... | | | ============================================================================ | | 51) Thu, Aug 25, 2005 - 7:10:48 pm | | glennmcc> | Yep, not too often.... but it did happen a few times on mine also. | | | ============================================================================ | | 52) Thu, Aug 25, 2005 - 9:56:19 pm | | gregy> | well...I don't have "meta" tags, and other things to attract the loonies | ...but...I guess a few are still bound to flutter in, occasionally.. | .... | | | ============================================================================ | | 53) Thu, Aug 25, 2005 - 10:00:32 pm | | gregy> | Got the poor old P133 straightened out...I think.....after all that | CMOS-poof!!! and recovery, etc....I'm now a little more familiar with | it, and can prolly keep it running for another 5-10 years.... | ... | I'll tell you....a P133 is a LOT faster than a 486dlc 40MHz.....rightly | so...but having both firedup and on a KVM, so I can switch from one | to the other...I mean...it's like night and day..... | ... | Now, I gotta get the new CD-RW into the P133, and get my Warp3Connect | loaded up.....I've never run OS/2 on anything real fast, and haven't | run it on the P133 for a looonnnnnngggg time, so I'm eager to see what | it's gonna do....I think ArachneOS2 is gonna fly on it..... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 54) Wed, Aug 31, 2005 - 9:07:16 pm | | gregy> | Ray...if you filter thru that stuff you read about the N.O. doomsday, | you see that most, if not all, of it is glob-warm propaganda.... | .. | The FACTS are: | 1. The storm did NOT hit dead on the area/city. | 2. The worst front of the storm hit in East Biloxi. | 3. The storm had already gone over, when the levees failed. | 4. The levees failed on the LAKE side of the city, NOT on | the side facing any "storm surge"... | 5. The levees failed, NOT due to waters rising in the canels and the | lake so the waters washed OVER the levees....they failed because they | sprung leaks in two places, and, as any farmer knows, your dam is soon | gone, if you don't immediately plug such. | 6. Those levee failures should NEVER have occurred...i.e. NO overflood, | surgeover, etc. They failed due to just plain extra rain ON THEM, and | small leaks cascading into major failures. | ... | However...given the usual propaganda expertise of the LA politicians | (after all, that's where Huey Long was from), and our great Corp of | Dumb-gineers, they'll point all their fingers at everyone else they | possibly can. Just to keep "we the people" from grabbing them and | stringing them up (as if we would, we no longer have the guts)... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 55) Wed, Aug 31, 2005 - 9:09:38 pm | | gregy> | Glenn...yes..I expect to pay more for my needed wood products. This | will be due to a number of factors, one of which is the recent WTO | "wood products" decision that just went against the Canadians. | | | ============================================================================ | | 56) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 2:21:30 am | | gregy> | Just to refute the glob-warm environ-bationists about "eeewwww, global | warming...yada, yada, yada." Hurricanes have NOT been getting worse. | | U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade | http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml | Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:16:43 | _________________________________ | | www.nws.noaa.gov | | --------------------------------+ | | U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade | | ========================================= | Number of hurricanes by Saffir-Simpson Category | to strike the mainland U.S. each decade. | | ,--------------------------------------------- | | | Saffir-Simpson | | | | | | Category1 | All |Major| | | Decade | | 1,2,3,4,5|3,4,5| | | |-------------------+ | | | |1 |2 |3 |4 |5 | | | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1851-1860|8 |5 |5 |1 |0 | 19 |6 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1861-1870|8 |6 |1 |0 |0 | 15 |1 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1871-1880|7 |6 |7 |0 |0 | 20 |7 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1881-1890|8 |9 |4 |1 |0 | 22 |5 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1891-1900|8 |5 |5 |3 |0 | 21 |8 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1901-1910|10 |4 |4 |0 |0 | 18 |4 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1911-1920|10 |4 |4 |3 |0 | 21 |7 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1921-1930|5 |3 |3 |2 |0 | 13 |5 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1931-1940|4 |7 |6 |1 |1 | 19 |8 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1941-1950|8 |6 |9 |1 |0 | 24 |10 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1951-1960|8 |1 |5 |3 |0 | 17 |8 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1961-1970|3 |5 |4 |1 |1 | 14 |6 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1971-1980|6 |2 |4 |0 |0 | 12 |4 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1981-1990|9 |1 |4 |1 |0 | 15 |5 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1991-2000|3 |6 |4 |0 |1 | 14 |5 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 2001-2004|4 |2 |2 |1 |0 | 9 |3 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1851-2004|109|72 |71 |18 |3 | 273 |92 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | Average | | | | | | | | | Per |7.1|4.7|4.6|1.2|0.2| 17.7 |6.0 | | Decade | | | | | | | | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | | | Only the highest Saffir-Simpson Category to | ffect the U.S. has been used. | | | This is taken from | THE DEADLIEST, COSTLIEST, AND MOST INTENSE | UNITED STATES HURRICANES FROM 1900 TO 2000 | (AND OTHER FREQUENTLY REQUESTED HURRICANE | FACTS) | by | Jerry D. Jarrell(retired), Max Mayfield, and | Edward N. Rappaport | NOAA/NWS/ Tropical Prediction Center | Miami, Florida | | Christopher W. Landsea | NOAA/AOML/Hurricane Research Division | Miami, Florida | | ========================================== | | Take THAT..!!!! oh, glob-warm environ-bationists......!!!!! | | | ============================================================================ | | 57) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 2:27:33 am | | gregy> | Second...."ewwww, the glob is warming, the glob is warming, eek! eek! | eek!" | | The Little Ice Age started around 1300-1450 a.d. It was preceeded by | the Medieval Warming Period about 300-1200 a.d. The Little Ice Age | is not counted as done until 1850-1890 a.d. Since then, you'd BETTER | hope we've been warming up..!!!! If not, then we're still in the throes | of the Little Ice Age....and... | For a FACT...we haven't yet warmed up to the levels that preceeded the | Little Ice Age....so... | .... | Hey,...boys and girls.....surPRISE!!!!!!!!....Glaciers are melting... | Arctic and Antarctic ice is melting....hoRAY...!!!!!!...means we're | still coming out of the throes of the Little Ice Age... | ... | FACTS..!!!! | ... | Go study history, and etc...!!!! | | | | ============================================================================ | | 58) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 5:34:28 am | | gregy> | | | List of U.S. Aid Recipients Offering | | Disaster Relief | | | | Posted by Plaut's Complaint @ | | Thursday 1 September 2005, 1:58 am | | | | Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has piped in | | with his endorsement of the view, | | discussed yesterday here, that Bush | | and the neocons are responsible for | | Hurricane Katrina because they caused | | global warming. He wrote inter alia: | | "As Hurricane Katrina dismantles | | Mississippirs Gulf Coast, itrs worth | | recalling the central role that | | Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour | | played in derailing the Kyoto | | Protocol and kiboshing President | | Bushrs iron-clad campaign promise to | | regulate CO2." See also this. | | | | Meanwhile, we thought we'd bring you | | the list of countries from around the | | world (and overseas Red Cross | | offices) that in the past received | | natural disaster aid from the US who | | have volunteered aid and assistance | | to New Orleans and Gulfport. Here is | | the list: | | | | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | ..that's it, folks.... | | ============================================================================ | | 59) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 6:04:32 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | The original pages are gone. | | Thankfully, | I saved the most relavent ones and have just nowre-uploaded them to my site. | | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/global-warming_my-ass/ | | ============================================================================ | | 60) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:27:44 pm | | gregy> | yes, Glenn....most of the REASONABLE people need to get Bjorn Lomborg's | book...he's an "environmentalist" (not an environ-bationist)...and he | blew the glob-warm bunch out of the water. Not because we don't have | some bit of global warming (it goes in cycles, as far as historical | DATA tells)...but because he debunks the CO2-eek,eek,eek idiots... | the advocates of dumb-yoto... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 61) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:32:04 pm | | ray> | Gregy, | | Well, the last thing I need it another board to take up my time, | but I can resist anything but temptation ;-) | | You defend your position above well but, it would seem, contradictorl | ialy. You say there is no global warming, but to defend that | possition, you claim that we are still coming out of the little | Ice Age and thus global warming is to be expected. So is or is not | the planet warming up? If so, it would seem to me that we are | experiencing global warming. I don't see how you can have it both | ways. | | | ============================================================================ | | 62) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:33:41 pm | | ray> | Oppps, I see by your last post that you do belive in global warming | it's just that you don't believe C02 has anything to do with it, right? | | | ============================================================================ | | 63) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:37:02 pm | | ray> | So do you believe that the meteorologists and other scientists who | seem to be concerned that mankind's activities are having an impact | on the weather are all idiots? And if so, what are your credentials | for making that assertion? | | | | ============================================================================ | | 64) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:51:45 pm | | glennmcc> | Speaking for myself. | I do not dispute the notion that there may be warming trend occuring in | the earths' climate. | | What I _do_ dipute are the claims of just how drastic that warming trend is. | | And I most certianly dipute the claim that we lowly humans are causeing | said warmming trend. | | Case-in-point.... | | 25,000 years ago there were glaciers right here in NE Ohio | | I suppose that the warming trend which _did_ happen that melted those | glaciers and caused them to receed over 1,000 miles north of here was | due to the cave men burning too many fires to cook the wolly mamoth they | had hunted-down and killed for food. | | On that note... I suppose that these same cave men actually caused the | extinction of the wooly mamoth due to over hunting. | | ============================================================================ | | 65) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:56:53 pm | | ray> | I'd say it's a matter of degree. It is a simple fact of physics | that some gases, like C02 do have the property of trapping infrared | radiation. Now, how much of an effect 'we' are having is open | to dispute, of course, and I too have little time for scare-mongering. | OTOH it seems equaly silly to me to catagoricaly deny even the | posiblity that we are having an effect, as Gregy seems to be doing. | Absence of proof is not proof of absence, to use the old maxim. | | | ============================================================================ | | 66) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 9:12:05 pm | | glennmcc> | As for the scientist who claim that global warming is the result of | human activities being idiots. | | By no means. | | In-fact, they are geniuses. | | They have figured-out a way of making themselves rich by making | the general public believe that what they say is true, hence keeping | themselves employed in the job of telling lies. | | The scientist who tells the most believable lie | is the one who gets a promotion and a larger salary. | | Or perhaps yet another government grant to do yet another 'study' | so that the yet more lies can be told to the general public. | | The simple truth of the matter that no-one seems willing to face up to | is that MAN does not control mother nature. | | Quite the contrary... it is mother nature who controls MAN. | | MAN did not begin to rapidly develop intellectually | and did not begin to develop materially until HE figured out how to | reduce the amount of control which mother nature had over HIM. | | As soon as MAN began to build shelter from mother nature and began | to cultivate crops, raise animals for food, use various forms of fuel | for producing heat to protect HIMSELF from the cold of mother nature.... | the intellect began to develop at a vastly increased rate. | | But......... MAN is still at the mercy of mother nature. | | Katrina has just proven once again that mother nature still reigns supreme. | | | ============================================================================ | | 67) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 9:14:21 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"Absence of proof is not proof of absence, to use the old maxim." | | | Oh yes it is....... | | Absence of proof, is proof of absence of proof. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 68) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:19:38 pm | | gregy> | et al, I really DO suggest you do some digging before trying to defend | the glob-warmer-environ-bationists. | ... | google - "bjorn lomborg" and start from there. | .. | And, also, Glenn's pages, that he posted the link to over on his AQC | board, are a good place to get some perspective. | | | ============================================================================ | | 69) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:26:10 pm | | gregy> | Ray....of COURSE I "believe(?)" in global temperature changes. As Glenn | points out in addition to my points about temperature changes, there has | been, at least, one occurance of a continental ice-sheet on North | America. It ain't there, today, eureka!!! it has melted...therefore | global temperature change of a positive nature. BUT...evidence.... | ..evidence (scientific data...ermmm...I'd rather term it "physics data" | in the broader sense, not just our present day field of physics) shows | VERY strongly that before that plus-temperature change, there was a | ...SURPRISE.!!!!...minus-temperature change, that existed for a period | of time while the ice-sheet was first in existence (if it didn't first | cause the creation of the ice sheet, it at least was colder to begin | with)... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 70) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:29:35 pm | | gregy> | So, I'm not talking about a "belief"....as the no-nothing glob-warm nuts | are....I'm talking about accepting the REAL physics-data (physical data) | that tells me certain FACTS about the world environment, and causes me | to draw certain conclusions BASED UPON PHYSICS RULES/LAWS.... | .... | So, I don't "believe" I accept facts and draw conclusions. | ... | And, I almost totally agree with Glenn's stated facts and lines of | reasoning, above... | | | ============================================================================ | | 71) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:37:51 pm | | gregy> | Where this whole CO2 baloney comes from can be traced back to the | "scientism worship" of one of its "great heros"....to whit: Carl Sagan. | ...who was such a media-freak-darling that his looney ideas are still | enshrined in the solid lead of the heads of most of his followers. | ... | He proposed/promoted/propagandized about "greenhouse gases" and "global | warming" SOLELY to combat the proposals/theories of Immanuel Velikovsky | ...especially concerning the VERY high heat of the planet Venus (over | 800degrees F)... | ...his arguments wouldn't wash then (but you could never crush him, | because he was the darling of the media, and tolerated/promoted by | other members of the "scientism establishment" hoping to stave off the | acceptance of the Velikovsky data/proposals/predictions/theories... | ... | And, given that we still have the same uniformitarianism cliche still | enforcing the "scientism" religion, the media and general public still | don't know any better. | ... | NO...!!!! There is NO sound scientific data that validates the effects | of so-called "greenhouse gases"....all is speculation/theories/computer | models (and...are you gonna try to tell me to trust in "computer models" | ...........) | | | ============================================================================ | | 72) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:43:43 pm | | gregy> | So, Look at Glenn's pages....read my chart, above, google/read/study | and you'll find all the info necessary to give you an intelligent | awareness of what's truely happening in the glov-warm kerfuffle... | ... | As I said, over on Glenn's board, and Glenn said, here...it's all being | done to promote individuals' grabs for personal/collective power over | the human race. Glob-warm is the old communist-conspiracy with a new | face-lift. | ... | Oh, you say, "That's extreme"...??? Go compare the list from the | commie-conspiracy and the present glob-warm....you'll find OOODLES of | matche-ups.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 73) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:46:25 pm | | gregy> | Which brings up the eternal, universal rule - "People with crap in their | heads yesterday, will still likely have crap in their heads today.".. | ..and COLLARY #1 - "Once a craphead, always a craphead."... | ... | Ah, any exceptions to this general rule, are, as always, proof thereof. | .... | | | ============================================================================ | | 74) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:55:26 pm | | gregy> | "So do you believe that the meteorologists and other scientists who | seem to be concerned that mankind's activities are having an impact | on the weather are all idiots?" | | Yes...if not delusional idiots, then they are evil manipulators.!!!! | | "And if so, what are your credentials for making that assertion?" | Ray, here you have just commited the logical fallacy known as "Appeal | to Authority".... | Hey...I can look outside, right this minute, see that it is dark...and | proclaim to you (and all and sundry) that IT IS NIGHT..!!!! | I don't need any authority to do that, other than the FACT that it is | true and my PHYSICAL DATA upon which I base my proclamation is not | refutable. (I mean, not REALLY refutable...lotsa idiots can/will | dispute it, and claim they've refuted it, but they haven't REALLY | refuted it).. | | | ============================================================================ | | 75) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:00:31 pm | | gregy> | A little, tiny, ForWhatIt'sWorth...did you see a couple weeks ago, the | story in the media about how "it's the cows farting in the mountains and | valleys around Los Angeles that are the biggest cause of the smog." | ...??? | Oh, you didn't....well...it was there...you can search around and find | it. | .. | Now, doesn't it start to kinda make your head flip-flip when you run | into one of these unconscious "sprung-a-leak" let the cat out of the | bag sorta admissions, from the scientism and their agitprop minions | (i.e. the MainLeftStreamMedia)....??? | ... | Just ponder that recent news story, for a while, and see what small | conclusions you can come to. | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 76) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:01:12 pm | | glennmcc> | FYI, | | I have been searching high and low and everywhere in btween for 15years | now trying find even the smallest shred of 'proof' the MAN is having | even the slightest measurable effect upon the climate of this planet. | | To-date I have found none. | | Quite the contrary, I have found TONS of evidence which PROVES that there | has been LESS change in the climate during the 'industrial age of MAN' | than there was during the 'pre-industrial age'. | | ============================================================================ | | 77) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:06:01 pm | | gregy> | Now, Ray...I'm not trying to make you thing like I do...or even accept | the same conclusions that I do....what I'm trying to do is carry on an | intelligent discussion/argument with you, and, in order to do that, I'm | trying to "clear-the-decks" here and get you to NOT continue to palm | those "otherguys'" agitprop off on me as the basis for your arguments. | .. | Once you'll start just proposing conclusions, and defending same, based | upon FACTS, not agitprop...then we can continue to fruitful discussion, | regardless of whether or not we agree. | ... | But, first we gotta dump the agitpropters' baloney... | | | ============================================================================ | | 78) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:07:43 pm | | gregy> | Glenn....well, there's gotta be a reason for that "absence", then... | .. | You don't suppose that the normal state of earth-climate is to have | wild swings, and that man's activities are somewhat damping it down..?? | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 79) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:07:46 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Read it for yourself. | (that is is IF you can contain your laughter long enough) | | | | ============================================================================ | | 80) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:12:48 pm | | glennmcc> | And this ain't the 1st "Cow fart study". | | Over 10 years ago... one of reputable research facilities received a | $180 millon grant from the US gov to do a similar study to dermine what | effect cow farts were having upon the (theoretically existing), ozone layer. | | ============================================================================ | | 81) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:14:37 pm | | glennmcc> | They did such a great job of making their bullshit (pun intended), | believable..... they recieved a subsequent grant of $250 million | to study what could be done to eleviate said effects. | | | ============================================================================ | | 82) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:15:48 pm | | glennmcc> | Their suggested action to eleciate the problem.... cow diapers. | | ============================================================================ | | 83) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:22:12 pm | | gregy> | he he...yep...that's the recent one I was referring to..... | ...still made me almost fall off my chair..... | ... | diapers???????.....he he he....they'd hafta be "air-tight diapers" and | that raises the spectical of what??? in your mind....??? (and, remember | that methane is not lighter-than-air)..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 84) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:23:25 pm | | gregy> | MY first imagery was of floating "cow-balloons"...but given heaver than | air....what????? | ... | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 85) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:25:34 pm | | gregy> | I mean...any halfway sensible person can see the ridiculous results of | their foolish "studies"....so....why can said person see that those | results MUST have arisen from hilariously faulty premises.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 86) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:26:43 pm | | gregy> | ooops..."why can said person NOT see that....etc" | | ============================================================================ | | 87) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:36:02 pm | | glennmcc> | No...no...no..... | | You misunderstand the intended use of the cow diapers. | | They would not be used to contain the cow farts themselves. | | The reasearches have yet to devise a method for containing the farts. | | The diapers would keep the cow poop contianed until 'changing time' | The 'full diaper' woukld be removed and fresh diaper applied. | The 'full diaper' culd then be disposed of in amnner in accordence with | all aplicable hazmat regulations so the we could eliminate the | possibilty of 'secondary methane contamination of the ozone layer. | due to methane escapeinf from the cow poop after evacuation from the | bovine colon. | | You can rest assured that further research grants will be given to more | studies on containing the cow farts themselves. | | After-all... | We MUST be sure to protect the (thoeretically existing), ozone layer. | | At-least until we able to either prove or disprove its existence. | | | ============================================================================ | | 88) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:41:29 pm | | gregy> | Well, now, I'm perfectly willing to accept, on the basis of the existing | physics-cal evidence that there IS ozone present in the atmosphere... | ... | As for that "ozone layer"...it's still about as proven as glob-warm... | hmmm...well...maybe a tiny bit more proven....but...the effects of it, | or its depletion....hmmmm....now THOSE are BIG disputables.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 89) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:48:49 pm | | glennmcc> | There exists just as much proof that there exists a layer of Co2 | as exists proof that there exists that layer of ozone. | | Proof of Co2 layer ....... none. | Proof of ozone layer ..... none. | | ============================================================================ | | 90) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:49:06 pm | | gregy> | So, then you're saying that diapers was only for the poop...??? | ... | Why, then, it was only designed to deal with "secondary-emission | cow-farts"....the "primary-emission cow-farts" were to be just ignored, | let loose...???? | .... | I'd kinda suggest that that was sorta a "half-brained" solution (since | you all know I'm averse to cussing and low language).... | .... | And that "primary-emission" stuff would constitute at least 75percent | (or more) of the total emission quantity (just take an old cowherder's | word for it).....and....about another half of the "secondary" would | escape between the fantail and the flush.......so....we're talking | about spending a whole bunch just to collect/contain only about 10-15 | percent of the total emissions....??? | .. | Hey...where are the anti-tobacco folks when you need them......??? | We need a total BAN...!!!! | ..... | eat veggies, eat veggies, eat veggies.....!!!!!!!! | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 91) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:50:34 pm | | gregy> | yep...reread my post...the ozone is there (measures)...the "layer" is | only hypothesized...... | | | ============================================================================ | | 92) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:53:39 pm | | gregy> | yeah...I reread your post...."layer"....just an imaginary construct.. | ... | so far, could be...hasn't been definitively deliniated, though...just | ...perhaps.... | ... | he he he...and then, these hi-falutin elitist want us to "believe and | follow"...... | ... | | ============================================================================ | | 93) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:57:03 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"about spending a whole bunch just to collect/contain only about 10-15 | percent of the total emissions....???" | | Damn... that's one hell of a good start though. | | | re:"eat veggies, eat veggies, eat veggies.....!!!!!!!!" | | But be sure their NOT baked beans. | | | ============================================================================ | | 94) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:58:56 pm | | glennmcc> | Damn.... it's 1:00am already. | | Gotta get to bed. | | CU after work tomorrow. | | ============================================================================ | | 95) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 12:06:37 am | | gregy> | But...back to serious posting... | .. | This whole topic got started when it niggled in my brain overnight, that | New Orleans was just FINE, until the whole day AFTER the hurricane blew | through. Then I investigated and discovered (at least I thought) that | the Gulf hadn't blown over-into the city, nor had the River flooded over | into the city, nor had the rain filled the city up.....but.....but... | the LAKE had poured through two holes in the levees (dikes) and flooded | into the city. | ... | Today's further investigation had confirmed that general scenerio...but | it turns out that it was mostly one CANAL bank that had broke letting | the LAKE flood into the city (since the canal is/was directly connected | to the lake)....but...NO report mentioned any "storm-surge" or "rising | water level" in the canal, or rising flood waters, etc, etc....all they | said/say is that the canal bank leaked/broke/washed out...without said | washout being directly caused by the storm. What this means (if it | continues to be true) is that the corrupt pol-ministration of N.O. | has refused to maintain their canal banks (not levees, etc) and, to | boot, they had NO ONE walking/watching those banks and levees for leaks, | before and immediately after the storm went past.....so....the canal | band leaked (slowly, as witness that it took a whole day) until it ate | a hole in the bank, which ate more, all the while letting the LAKE flow | thru the canal bank hole into the city. | ... | Now, THAT would seem to me to require some lynching, and drawing-and- | quartering..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 96) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 12:07:06 am | | gregy> | he he he.. | .. | g'nite | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 97) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 1:26:58 am | | gregy> | It is now starting to be confirmed, what I said about the local dufuses | pol-minstration, being responsible for letting those NO canal dikes | leak, then wash out... | .. | Only it's worse than I imagined....each levee, get that - each levee, | is overseen/controlled by SEPARATE "boards".....no central coordination, | and no oversight. AND that is mandated as part of STATE Law...!!! | ...can't be changed without majority votes in both houses of the state | legislature... | ... | And...NO's been on notice of their almost certainly having a catastrophe | since 1965.....and the Dutch have given them notice of what they have | successfully done (since 1953) to prevent being overwhelmed by storm | surges....which didn't even happen, in this case....just leaks... | ... | I'd post the links to the just-starting national coverage/questions, | but, you can find them if you "give a rip".... | | | ============================================================================ | | 98) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 2:16:48 am | | gregy> | Glenn...here's another one...sorta a "different take".... | | OpinionJournal - Taste | http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110007197 | Fri, 02 Sep 2005 02:00:39 | _________________________________________________ | | FINE WHINE: It turns out | that the organic | compounds released in | the winemaking process | are a major contributor | to air pollution; and | now environmental | regulators are targeting | vintners in Napa and | Sonoma, Calif., who | produce 95% of regional | smog. Maybe | "progressive" | connoisseurs will think | twice before uncorking | that second bottle. | | | ============================================================================ | | 99) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 2:18:04 am | | gregy> | gee.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 100) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 2:23:50 am | | gregy> | I guess with..."vintners in Napa and Sonoma, Calif., who produce | 95% of regional smog." | That only leaves 5% left produced by "other sources" so the cow-farts | must not be too much of a kerfuffle (kerfartfle???) after all.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 101) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 4:25:33 am | | gregy> | And..replying to another group of nutzis, both left and right: | | Jonah Goldberg: Voodoo meteorology | http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/p... | Fri, 02 Sep 2005 04:24:17 | ____________________________________________________________________________ | | September 2, 2005 | | Just days after the Asian tsunami on December 26, 2004, a dozen or so | writers raised the subject of theodicy. Within weeks, scores of writers | broached the subject. Theodicy, if you didn't know, is the branch of | theology which tries to explain how a good God can allow evil to persist. | | So far, according to a search of Lexis-Nexis, I'm the first to bring it up | in the aftermath of the Katrina disaster. I'm pretty sure I won't be the | last, and I'm positive I'll be among the least authoritative. | | Indeed, I have no idea how to answer the question of how God can allow | evil to exist, except to say that God's ways are mysterious; a world | without evil wouldn't be the world; free will matters; and so on. It may | be boilerplate, but it works for me and I really haven't read anybody who | does much better. | | But what I find fascinating is how so many people desperately want the | culprit to be someone - or something - other than God or "Mother Nature." | | A slew of partisans have already declared that George W. Bush is | responsible for this disaster because of his policies on global warming | and the Kyoto Treaty. Cindy Sheehan, with the sort of desperation that | comes at the end of 15 minutes of fame, declared Bush was "heading to | Louisiana to see the devastation that his environmental policies and his | killing policies have caused." | | Robert F. Kennedy Jr. blamed Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour for the | devastation. "Now we are all learning what it's like to reap the whirlwind | of fossil fuel dependence which Barbour and his cronies have encouraged," | he said. | | Even the environment minister of Germany joined the chorus of those who | believe the "butterfly effect" of Bush's signature on the Kyoto treaty | would have stopped Katrina. | | On one level, I think all of this is partisan opportunism. Even a casual | glimpse at the data provided by the National Weather Service ( | http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml) shows that big hurricanes | (categories 3, 4, and 5) haven't increased over the 20th century. But for | years now, activists have exploited media coverage in order to make it | seem like something scary is driving the rise in hurricanes. "Global | warming = Worse hurricanes. George Bush just doesn't get it," blared a | billboard in Florida during the run-up to the 2004 presidential election. | | A great many people tried to pin the 2004 tsunami on global warming, too, | even though that wasn't even theoretically possible (it was caused by a | deep-sea earthquake). Tony Juniper, director of Friends of the Earth in | Britain, spoke for many when he proclaimed, "Here again are yet more | events in the real world that are consistent with climate change | predictions." | | But I also think there's something much deeper going on. It cannot be | disputed that not just the activists but millions of normal people | honestly believe these self-fulfilling prophecies that explain virtually | every kind of weather - except nice weather, of course - as the | comeuppance of man. And the key word there is "prophecy." | | It's become something of a cliche to say that environmentalism has become | a religion, but that's because there's something so obviously true about | it. The cant, the ritual, the creation myths all feel more religious than | scientific. Within the environmentalist worldview there's "an initial | Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there's a fall | from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree | of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day | coming for us all," observed Michael Crichton in a famous speech on the | subject. | | Secular, "scientific" liberals understandably titter at televangelists who | pray away hurricanes or claim that this or that calamity is God's | retribution. But as unpersuasive or unhelpful as much of that theater may | be, there's at least a serious theology somewhere underneath all the | posing. Save for the cults of "deep ecology" and Wicca, environmental | theology seems slapdash. | | They could start by getting their own theodicy, one that would try to | reconcile natural disasters with their faith that Mother Nature is such a | nice lady. Rejecting Tennyson's description of nature as "red in tooth and | claw," they opt for a nurturing but wounded mommy nature. Were it not for | man's folly, she would be rocking us to sleep in her gentle arms every | night. God, it seems, is a deadbeat dad in this whole scheme, and man | ultimately has all the power. Indeed, George Bush (with the aid of Haley | Barbour, of course) could eliminate catastrophes with the stroke of a pen. | | Those who study theodicy spend a lot of time on the Book of Job, which | tackles God's willingness to allow bad things to happen to people who | don't have it coming. Despite his hardships, Job never abandons God | because to do so would be to abandon hope. | | Environmentalists, it seems, need their own Book of Job. Because, as it | stands right now, Mother Nature's ways are not mysterious, but entirely | contingent on the output of fossil fuels. And, ironically enough, all of | their hopes lie in George W. Bush. Which sounds just a bit like their | version of Satan worship. | | Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online. | | ©2005 Tribune Media Services | | | ============================================================================ | | 102) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 4:29:19 am | | gregy> | Jonah says it with shear elegance (note - elegance, not eloquence). | | | | ============================================================================ | | 103) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 9:14:54 am | | gregy> | More from The Corner: | | The Corner on National Review Online | http://corner.nationalreview.com/ | Fri, 02 Sep 2005 09:12:17 | ___________________________________________________________ | | Friday, September 02, 2005 | | DOES ANYONE DOUBT [Jonah Goldberg ] | | | That if 1,2,3... a dozen looters had been | shot the first day New Orleans would be a | better place today? (And again, I'm talking | about the actual thieves not the people | trying to survive). One thing that confuses | the objections to the "shoot on sight" | policy is that it sounds like looters will | be getting shot day after day after day. | | You don't have to shoot on sight very long | before would-be looters realize "hey, I | might get shot on sight." We've now heard | of multiple outrages as a result of people | being stranded in places -- particularly | Charity Hospital -- simply because rescue | workers couldn't risk getting killed. | | Rudy Giuliani's New York proved that James | Q. Wilson's and George L. Kellings' "broken | windows" theory was correct. People take | cues from small instances of disorder and | chaos and commit even worse acts of | disorder and chaos. Clearly it works when | the initial lawlessness isn't small. When | criminals see that looting is permitted, | they -- rationally -- conclude that | everything is permitted. There have been | rapes and beatings in the Superdome because | that interpretation has become widespread. | | How many people died because of the | lawlessness that was allowed to fester | while the Governor talked about "bad | apples" and her grave disappointment? How | many resources might have been spared if a | firm rule had been set at once? How many | more cops and guardsmen are necessary to | maintain order than would have been | necessary if a zero-tolerance policy had | been taken from the outset? | | When I hear that Rhodes woman from Air | America is encouraging looting, all I can | think is that she's letting some radical | chic nonsense take precedence over the need | to save peoples' lives. | | Posted at 11:05 AM | | | MORE NO BACKGROUND [Rich Lowry ] | I asked my Louisiana professor guy who | wrote in yesterday two questions: 1) why | seemingly so little preparation in NO?; 2) | what to make of the mayor down there? | Here's what he wrote back: | | 1) I think no one in the area ever | thought that a storm of this magnitude | would ever really strike New Orleans. A | friend of mine at Tulane usually rode | these storms out by opening his front | door and sipping bourbon while watching | the waves of rain pass. Fortunately he | did not stay this time. The problem with | planning is the same as the problem with | flood control that I wrote to you about | yesterday. There are simply too many | competing agencies asking for the same | dollars and jealously guarding their | political turf. More importantly, no one | anticipated the complete social breakdown | that has occurred among those who refused | or were unable to evacuate. The breakdown | appears to be the culmination of decades | of weak, at best, law enforcement with | Orleans Parish that looked the other way | at a lot of the crime that occurred in | areas like the Ninth Ward, because the | officers themselves were scared to go | into many of the housing projects. Also, | until within the last ten years the state | police were not allowed by the city | government to operate within the parish | (the city's boundary is contiguous with | the parish boundary). Some of this goes | back to when Huey Long amended the state | constitution to take control of the city | from the elected city government; most, | unfortunately, is the result of much more | recent corruption (witness the recent | indictments of many close aides, | including family members, of the | administration of former mayor Marc | Morial). There were rumors flooding the | state yesterday (Thursday) that the | unrest and looting had spread to Baton | Rouge and Lafayette, where many of the | refugees who fled prior to the storm were | located. I even received a forwarded | email written by a Rapides Parish | Sheriff's deputy (the parish I live in) | that warned about the flood of refugees | heading our way from the Ninth Ward and | to be prepared for anything. The rumors | were false, and the Sheriff has said to | disregard the email; it was unofficial | and the sender will be dealt with when | the Sheriff returns (he spent the day in | New Orleans observing the deputies he | sent to aid in rescue efforts. | | 2) People outside of New Orleans had high | hopes when Nagin was elected. He was not | a part of the competing political | machines in the city. His background was | as an executive in a cable company. He | has done a good job at ferreting out | corruption and trying to change the | system, but he had not been able to | really change the culture of the police | force. When he took office the New | Orleans Police Department had only just | quit accepting convicted felons as | officers. Unfortunately, he appears to | have been overwhelmed by the force of | events and the complete loss of the | city's infrastructure. After 9/11 New | York City, outside of Lower Manhattan, | still had all of the basic city services; | New Orleans as of Monday afternoon | essentially had none, and neither he nor | the governor exhibit the leadership | needed. I was never a fan of the former | governor Mike Foster, never voted for | him, but I want him back. He would have | taken his own boat to New Orleans and | personally arrested the looters on | Monday, shooting those that ignored him. | That may sound callous, but it is what is | needed. Governor Blanco this morning | finally realized that, declaring war on | the looters. That should have been done | Monday afternoon. | | Sorry this is so long, but in Louisiana | there are no quick easy answers, due to | the nature of politics here. I hope this | was helpful. | | | Posted at 10:47 AM | | | | ============================================================================ | | 104) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 10:33:54 am | | gregy> | More: | | Intricate Flood Protection Long | a Focus of Dispute - New York | http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/national/nationa | Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:33:13 | ___________________________________________________ | | ================================================================= | September 1, 2005 | | Intricate Flood Protection Long a Focus of Dispute | | By ANDREW C. REVKIN and CHRISTOPHER DREW | | The 17th Street levee that gave way and led to the flooding of New Orleans | was part of an intricate, aging system of barriers and pumps that was so | chronically underfinanced that senior regional officials of the Army Corps | of Engineers complained about it publicly for years. | | Often leading the chorus was Alfred C. Naomi, a senior project manager for | the corps and a 30-year veteran of efforts to waterproof a city built on | slowly sinking mud, surrounded by water and periodically a target of great | storms. | | Mr. Naomi grew particularly frustrated this year as the Gulf Coast braced | for what forecasters said would be an intense hurricane season and a | nearly simultaneous $71 million cut was announced in the New Orleans | district budget to guard against such storms. | | He called the cut drastic in an article in New Orleans CityBusiness. | | In an interview last night, Mr. Naomi said the cuts had made it impossible | to complete contracts for vital upgrades that were part of the long-term | plan to renovate the system. | | This week, amid news of the widening breach in the 17th Street Canal, he | realized that the decadeslong string of near misses had ended. | | "A breach under these conditions was ultimately not surprising," he said | last night. "I had hoped that we had overdesigned it to a point that it | would not fail. But you can overdesign only so much, and then a failure | has to come." | | No one expected that weak spot to be on a canal that, if anything, had | received more attention and shoring up than many other spots in the | region. It did not have broad berms, but it did have strong concrete | walls. | | Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental | Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that was particularly | surprising because the break was "along a section that was just upgraded." | | "It did not have an earthen levee," Dr. Penland said. "It had a vertical | concrete wall several feel thick." | | Now the corps is scrambling. After failing to close a 300-foot break in | the canal through which most of the floodwater entered the city, federal | engineers decided last night to take the battle with Lake Pontchartrain to | the lakefront. | | Starting today, they will prepare to drive corrugated vertical steel | plates, called sheet pile, into the mud near where the narrow canal meets | the lake, sealing it off so that the big breach farther in can be more | methodically attacked, Mr. Naomi said. | | The decision was made after a day of fruitless efforts to figure how to | drop concrete highway barriers or huge sandbags into the torrent. For the | most part, the water between the lake and the filled bowl of the city | leveled off as of last night, officials said. | | Weaknesses in the levee system were foreshadowed in a report in May on the | hurricane protection plan for the region and the budget gap. | | The district headquarters said, "The current funding shortfalls in fiscal | year 2005 and fiscal year 2006 will prevent the Corps from addressing | these pressing needs." | | They also meant that there was far too little money to study thoroughly an | upgrade of the protections from the existing standard, enough to hold back | a hurricane at Category 3 on the five-step intensity scale, to a level to | withstand floods and winds from a Category 5 storm. | | Hurricane Katrina was on the high end of Category 4 and, despite the | extreme flooding, is still seen by many hurricane experts as a near miss | for New Orleans. | | Since 2001, the Louisiana Congressional delegation had pushed for far more | money for storm protection than the Bush administration has accepted. Now, | Mr. Naomi said, all the quibbling over the storm budget, or even over full | Category 5 protection, which would cost several billion dollars, seemed | tragically absurd. | | "It would take $2.5 billion to build a Category 5 protection system, and | we're talking about tens of billions in losses, all that lost | productivity, and so many lost lives and injuries and personal trauma | you'll never get over," Mr. Naomi said. "People will be scarred for life | by this event." | | He said there were still no clear hints why the main breach in the flood | barriers occurred along the 17th Street Canal, normally a conduit for vast | streams of water pumped out of the perpetually waterlogged city each day | and which did not take the main force of the waves roiling the lake. He | said that a low spot marked on survey charts of the levees near the spot | that ruptured was unrelated and that the depression was where a new bridge | crossed the narrow canal near the lakefront. | | Some experts studying flood prevention with the corps and other agencies | speculated that any dip in the retaining levee or walls there might have | allowed water to slop over and start the collapse. | | Mr. Naomi said that as the power of the hurricane grew clear over the | weekend, he and others who had worked to make the system as strong as it | could be, given the design limits, could only hope that it would hold. | | But, he said, he knew that the chances were high that the rising waters | and crashing waves would find a fatal weak spot in the 350 miles of levees | and walls. | | As often occurs after a storm, Lake Pontchartrain is sloshing back and | forth, sending pulses of water into the city and potentially complicating | repairs, Dr. Penland said. | | "It's like you have a bowl of water and you shake it, and it sloshes back | and forth," he said, describing a phenomenon that geologists call a seiche | (pronounced sesh). "Mississippi Sound and Pontchartrain are real prone to | seiches when big storms come through. We are seeing the slosh. Water is | being flushed through the gaps in the levees." | | He said scientists at the United States Geological Survey estimated that | the sloshing would gradually diminish in a few days. | | Until then, the city will be subject not just to normal variation in the | lake, where water levels change about a foot between high and low tide, | but also to the variations of the seiche. "You have not just the one-foot | tide, you probably have three to four feet of water," Dr. Penland said. | "Once we get to an ordinary tidal regime, when it plays out, that will be | our opportunity to close those breaks in the levees and start pumping." | | Andrew C. Revkin reported from New York for this article and Christopher | Drew from Baton Rouge, La. Cornelia Dean contributed reporting from New | York. | | | Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company | | | ============================================================================ | | 105) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 10:45:53 am | | gregy> | And more: | | http://www.techcentralstation.com/090205A.html | http://www.techcentralstation.com/090205F.html | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 106) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 11:03:04 am | | gregy> | And more: | | http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/national/index.ssf?/base/national-50/112 | http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4785 | | ============================================================================ | | 107) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 9:49:26 pm | URL | | gregy> | Wonderful, complete roundup on "Buses".....:(((( | | http://junkyardblog.net/archives/week_2005_08_28.html#004749 | | | ============================================================================ | | 108) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 9:56:26 pm | | ray> | Hmmmm, and 'idictment' if ever there was one. Sound like criminal | incompetence to me :( | | | Must be those commie-liberals, it's well known how the left are always | trying to cut spending on public works so as to give tax breaks to | the wealthy, and at the same time preaching about how 'market forces' | will solve any problem that could possibly come up. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 109) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 10:38:40 pm | | gregy> | This is a news report about the "Mandatory Evac Order" given on Sunday. | ...NOTE - how Blanco says BUSH...yes, that's right, THAT JERK was the | one who called HER and pled for them to issue a Mandatory Evac Order... | | Nola.com: NewsFlash - Mandatory evacuation | ordered for New Orl | http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf? | Fri, 02 Sep 2005 22:26:33 | __________________________________________________ | | 8/28/2005, 10:48 a.m. CT | | The Associated Press | | | | NEW ORLEANS (AP) — In the face of a | catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a | mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday | for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin. | | Acknowledging that large numbers of | people, many of them stranded tourists, | would be unable to leave, the city set | up 10 places of last resort for people | to go, including the Superdome. | | The mayor called the order | unprecedented and said anyone who could | leave the city should. He exempted | hotels from the evacuation order | because airlines had already cancelled | all flights. | | Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside | the mayor at a news conference, said | President Bush called and personally | appealed for a mandatory evacuation for | the low-lying city, which is prone to | flooding. | | "There doesn't seem to be any relief in | sight," Blanco said. | | She said Interstate 10, which was | converted Saturday so that all lanes | headed one-way out of town, was total | gridlock. | | "We are facing a storm that most of us | have long feared," Nagin said. | | The storm surge most likely could | topple the city's levee system, which | protect it from surrounding waters of | Lake Pontchartrain, the Mississippi | River and marshes, the mayor said. The | bowl-shaped city must pump water out | during normal times, and the hurricane Š threatened pump power. | | Previous hurricanes evacuations in New | Orleans were always voluntary, because | so many people don't have the means of | getting out. Some are too poor and | there is always a French Quarter full | of tourists who get caught. | | "This is a once in a lifetime event," | the mayor said. "The city of New | Orleans has never seen a hurricane of | this magnitude hit it directly," the | mayor said. | | He told those who had to move to the | Superdome to come with enough food for | several days and with blankets. He said | it will be a very uncomfortable place | and encouraged everybody who could to | get out. | Nagin said police and firefighters | would spread out throughout the city | sounding sirens and using bullhorns to | tell residents to get out. He also said | police would have the authority to | comandeer any vehicle or building that | could be used for evacuation or shelter. | | The Superdome was already taking in | people with special problems. It opened | about 8 a.m. and people on walkers, | some with oxygen tanks, began checking | in. | | In a neighborhood in central city, a | group of residents sat on a porch. It | was almost a party atmosphere. | | "We're not evacuating," said Julie | Paul, 57. "None of us have any place to | go. We're counting on the Superdome. | That's our lifesaver." | | She said they'd spent the last couple | of hurricanes there. They would wait | for a friend who has a van to take | them, because none has cars. | | At a nearby gas station, Linda Young, | 37, was tanking up her car. | | "I'm really scared. I've been through | hurricanes, but this one scares me. I | think everybody needs to get out," sheŠ said. | | She said they planned to leave Saturday | but couldn't get gas, and didn't want | to go without it, so got up early and | got in a gas line. | | In the suburbs, evacuations were under | way. | | "That sun is shining too bright for | this to be happening," said Joyce | Tillis, manager of the Holiday Inn | Select at the airport in the suburbs as | she called the more than 140 guests to | tell them the hotel was under a | mandatory evacuation. "It's too nice a | day." | | Tillis lives inside the flood zone in | the community of Avondale. She said she | called her three daughters and told | them to get out. "If I'm stuck, I'm | stuck," Tillis said. "I'd rather save | my second generation if I can." | | | | ============================================================================ | | 110) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 10:43:35 pm | | gregy> | No, no, no.!!! It's ALL bush's/roves/religiousrightfanatics/bigbusiness | and those scumbags....they're to blame... | ... | Oh, and the usual suspects and ham actors, Michael Moore and, now, Jesse | Jackson are blaming it on bush's "racism" and "anti-poor" bias... | ... | BTW....both the N.O. Mayor AND his police chief are both black, AND his | director of emergency management.. | ... | ...this makes my head weary...just read all the links and posts... | ... | It ain't a pretty pitcher...not on the ground,...I mean, in the | rerporting of this, and the proggy-lib spin(s) that are being tried.. | | | ============================================================================ | | 111) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 11:03:24 pm | | gregy> | Oh, and just in case you think this is anti-black screed.. the so-called | N.O. leadership (mostly black) don't hold a candle to 20 year old Jabbar | Gibbson ...just go...google the name...you'll find a "true American | Leader" there.....must be he's white, right....??? Cause we're all | racists and don't think blacks can do anything right....???? | .. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 112) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 12:18:36 am | URL | | gregy> | Re: glob-warm... | ... | now it's peat..... | CORRECTION: the correct spelling is: | | Jabbor Gibson | | (in Post 111) | | | ============================================================================ | | 114) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 12:50:02 am | | gregu> | hmmmm...can't turn up any google hits for either spelling... | ..so: | | Taking refuge in the Astrodome - NEWSCHANNEL 5 | http://www.newschannel5.tv/2005/9/1/4255/Taking-re | Sat, 03 Sep 2005 00:49:21 | ___________________________________________________ | | Harlingen-Weslaco-McAllen-Brownsville, Texas | | 81° and Few Clouds | | NEWSCHANNEL 5 Investigations | | Taking refuge in the Astrodome | | Thursday, September 01, 2005 Updated: 11:32 AM | | HOUSTON -- NEWSCHANNEL 5 crews were in Houston as some desperate refugees | arrived in a stolen bus. | | HOUSTON -- Thousands of refugees of Hurricane Katrina were transported to | the Astrodome in Houston this week. In an extreme act of looting, one | group actually stole a bus to escape ravaged areas in Louisiana. | | About 100 people packed into the stolen bus. They were the first to enter | the Houston Astrodome, but they weren't exactly welcomed. | | The big yellow school bus wasn't expected or approved to pass through the | stadium's gates. Randy Nathan, who was on the bus, said they were | desperate to get out of town. | | "If it werent for him right there," he said, "we'd still be in New Orleans | underwater. He got the bus for us." | | Eighteen-year-old Jabbor Gibson jumped aboard the bus as it sat abandoned | on a street in New Orleans and took control. | | "I just took the bus and drove all the way here...seven hours straight,' | Gibson admitted. "I hadn't ever drove a bus." | | The teen packed it full of complete strangers and drove to Houston. He | beat thousands of evacuees slated to arrive there. | | "I t's better than being in New Orleans," said fellow passenger Albert | McClaud, "we want to be somewhere where we're safe." | | During a long and impatient delay, children popped their heads out of bus | windows and mothers clutched their babies. | | One 8-day-old infant spent the first days of his life surrounded by chaos. | He's one of the many who are homeless and hungry. | | Authorities eventually allowed the renegade passengers inside the dome. | But the 18-year-old who ensured their safety could find himself in a world | of trouble for stealing the school bus. | | "I dont care if I get blamed for it ," Gibson said, "as long as I saved my | people." | | Sixty legally chartered buses were expected to arrive in Houston | throughout the night. Thousands of people will be calling the Astrodome | "home," at least for now. | | | | | Copyright 2005 Mobile Video Tapes, Incorporated. All rights reserved. This | material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 115) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 12:50:53 am | | gregu> | now that's a "Real American Leader"....(from Louisiana, no less)... | .... | | | ============================================================================ | | 116) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 10:17:19 am | | ray> | Hell of a guy! | | ... So you aren't a Bush-baby then? | | ============================================================================ | | 117) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 2:55:23 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | | SCHOOL BUS TO SAFETY | | | modern day noah | | Jay Smooth passed this on: the first bus to reach the Astrodome from New | Orleans wasn't from the Superdome. It was a school bus that 20 year old | drove up from N.O., picking up refugees and stragglers along the way after | police in N.O. gave him the keys and told him to drive: | HOUSTON -- A bus of refugees left homeless and helpless by Hurricane | Katrina arrived at the Astrodome, but they were not the evacuees who | originally took shelter at the Superdome, Local 2 reported Thursday. | | State and county officials said the Astrodome would only accept refugees | from the Louisiana Superdome, but the first bus that arrived at the | Astrodome Thursday night was actually stolen. The driver of the school bus | claimed to be from the Superdome, but after authorities questioned the | 20-year-old driver, they learned the bus was actually stolen. | | "The police told me I could have the bus. I told them I had a license," | Jabar Gibson told Local 2. | | Gibson said the Orleans Parish school bus was parked at the Superdome and | that he picked up refugees stranded on the highway. | | "We had walked on the interstate for two hours. (Officials) were passing us | up. They weren't even worrying about us. They were just worrying about the | people in the Superdome," evacuee Makivia Horton told Local 2. | | Authorities let the refugees on the bus stay while other evacuees already | in Houston have been turned away because they were not from the Superdome. | | Local 2 reported that 20 of 475 buses scheduled to arrive at the Astrodome | had arrived by 6:30 a.m. Thursday. | | About 20,000 refugees from the Superdome are expected to arrive at | Houston's Astrodome over the next couple of days. | | An American Red Cross volunteer said they have ordered 45,000 cots and | blankets to be delivered to the Astrodome. | | Harris County Judge Robert Eckels said the Astrodome could temporarily | house the refugees but said the facility could not act as a permanent home. | The arena's schedule has been cleared through December. | | I heard earlier though at the Astrodome is now turning away people since | they've reached their max. At least those there have basics like water, | toilets, showers, food, air conditioning and electricity, none of which was | at the Superdome. | | --Oliver | | Permalink | | | | Thursday, September 01, 2005 | | | _______ | | | So.... which of the two stories is actually a statement of the truth ? | | The one you found ? | | The one I found ? | | Both ? | | Niether ? | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 118) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 2:56:15 pm | | glennmcc> | Did it actually happen at-all ? | | Or are both stories pure fiction ? | | ============================================================================ | | 119) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 7:54:19 pm | | ray> | I read in the paper today that the Corps had been begging the | Feds on bended knee for money to improve the N.0. levees. Gregy, | seems to me like you're being too hard on those guys. | | And, I also read today that, contrary to popular opinion, the | magnitude of huricanes is not getting worse, at least decade by | decade -- OK I'm convinced. | | | ============================================================================ | | 120) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:06:45 am | | gregy> | Ray...bush-baby...??? explain... | .. | Re: The Corp....they're ALWAYS beggin....and they always get turned | down....because they're always alarmists/porkbarrelers...everyone knows | if you wanna get some major pork for your district/state, just run it | past those Corp boys....they'll back ANYYYYYYTHING.... | ... | Now, go read my post(s)....one of the engineers for the levees said, | "I'm surprised it broke there. That section isn't a dirt dike, it | is concrete with straight concrete walls.".. | .. | And, others of my post have quoted numerous involved, etc...saying that | it wasn't any surge that "slopped over"...it was a BREACH...the thing | broke....and it didn't "catastrophically fail" in an instant...it | started to leak, then leaked some more, then more, then breached...it | did NOT happen until AFTER the storm was already well past..(just the | trailing-edge rain squalls)...so... | ..hey...maybe I'm all wrong....just lead me to the guy who was in charge | of, supervised and documented, the levee-walkers, before, during, and | especially right after the storm.....he can SET ME STRAIGHT.... | ... | Oh, and 'splain to me where were all the school buses (perhaps those in | the pictures were "extras")...and, in addition, 'splain to me where | were all the 360+ city-owned buses...perhaps they weren't parked in an | "underwater parking garage" like those school buses. | .. | And, 'splain to me why BUSH was the one (in Blanco's own words) who had | to call the LouisianaLosers on Sunday to ask (beg???) them to order the | manditory evacuation of New Orleans... | .. | And, 'splain to me why 15,000+ refugees were stashed in the Convention | Center and FEMA wasn't told they were there, until Friday.... | And, and, and....whole lotta 'splainin needs to be done...there's lots | more I could bring up... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 121) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:11:03 am | | gregy> | Ray, magnitude..increasing..?? I posted the Nat. Wea.Service chart | showing that....but...hey...go read it on the rest of the web, as you | did...it's all over the place... | ... | So, I ask you....given that YOU found it so easily, and I posted it, | and tens (if not hundreds/thousands) of others have promonently posted | it.... | 'splain to me how come the MainLeftStreamMedia is still humping that | rubber-dolly...??? Huh..?? And 'splain to me how come they think they | can continue to get away with this kinda propaganda...??? | .. | I'll 'splain to you...they're STUPID!!!!!...and they think they can get | away with this, 'cause they think I'M as stupid as they are...!!! | | | ============================================================================ | | 122) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:17:27 am | | gregy> | Oh, and Rev Jetmouth and Rev AlLooseTongue are hammering about "racism | against the poor, yada, yada, yada."... | ..okay... | 'splain to me how come a majorly BLACK New Orleans administration, with | a BLACK Mayor and BLACK CopChief and BLACK EmergManagementHead, "splain | to me how they order the evac, then go stash those "poor and black" in | the Superdome (known) and ConventionCenter (unknown) instead of using | THOSE BUSES to start hauling them "poor black" folks out, too...??? | I mean, if the upperclasses were ordered to flee, why didn't those | pol-ministrators order the lowerclasses to leave, AND PROVIDE THEM | TRANSPORTATION.....???? | | | ============================================================================ | | 123) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:24:03 am | | gregy> | And, I restate sumpin that all the looney-left bush-bashers keep from | recaling/remembering (if they even knew enough to know it, originally). | ... | The US Federal Government is NOT responsible for what the locals do... | furthermore, the Feds are NOT allowed to interfer unless the locals are | dead, incapacited, or totally incompetent...it is AGAINST THE LAW for | the Feds to come down to local level and act, without a request from | the locals. | ITEM - Plenty of other States had National Guardsmen "ready to go" and | never received any request for them, UNTIL THURSDAY AFTERNOO..... | FACT - The Texas National Guard had ready 800+ Guardsmen, and can't send | them until Sunday (tomorrow)...WHY...??? You just don't dispatch your | personnel into some area, without the locals of that area being ready | to receive/coordinate them....anything else just gets lots more idiots | in the area, all chasing their own tails, and getting in each others | ways... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 124) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:28:08 am | | gregy> | ITEM(I don't state it as a FACT, since I'm beginning to doubt the | truthfulness/sanity of the LA pols), ITEM - according to LA pols' | statements, they had 5800 Guardsmen already activated to deal with the | emergency, and another 2200 availble to be activated within 72 hours. | ... | hmmmm...how come Blanco, et al, never used those troops...?? Or did | they lie about having them...??? | FACT - their StrengthRosters show they should have had about 8000 | troops available....where were they...??? | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 125) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:29:59 am | | gregy> | Glenn...stories true...??? Hey, your guess is as good as any... | ... | With the sorry misinformation-operation the MLSM has been running on | this business, I'm not believing ANYTHING (pro or con) that they say. | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 126) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:32:59 am | | gregy> | One thing I gotta say for Bush...he's NOT a recriminator...he's an | encourager....he met with that weepy/whiney N.O. Mayor, and the mayor | comes away comforted and encouraged.... | ... | Guess we need someone like him leading.....BOY...???? if it'd been ME | ...!!!!...I'm afraid that mayor wouldn't needed emergency surgery to | have his foot removed from his mouth, after they finished extracting | his head from outa his rectum.....!!!!! | | | | ============================================================================ | | 127) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:53:49 am | URL | | gregy> | Get this one...it's sourced from AP | | http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/3/152800.shtml | | | ============================================================================ | | 128) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 2:54:18 am | URL | | gregy> | The mayor....errmmmmm....I'll let it speak for itself... | | http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46134 | | | ============================================================================ | | 129) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:23:26 am | | gregy> | The Intellectual Activist | http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?i | Sun, 04 Sep 2005 03:04:02 | ______________________________________________ | | î Unnaturaì Disasterº Á Hurricanå Exposeó thå | an-Made Disaster of the Welfare State | | y Robert Tracinski | ep 02, 2005 | ---------------------------------------------- | | by Robert Tracinski | | It has taken four long days for state and | federal officials to figure out how to deal | with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't | blame them, because it has also taken me | four long days to figure out what is going | on there. The reason is that the events | there make no sense if you think that we are | confronting a natural disaster. | | If this is just a natural disaster, the | response for public officials is obvious: | you bring in food, water, and doctors; you | send transportation to evacuate refugees to | temporary shelters; you send engineers to | stop the flooding and rebuild the city's | infrastructure. For journalists, natural | disasters also have a familiar pattern: the | heroism of ordinary people pulling together | to survive; the hard work and dedication of | doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the | steps being taken to clean up and rebuild. | | Public officials did not expect that the | first thing they would have to do is to send | thousands of armed troops in armored | vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy | insurgency. And journalists--myself | included--did not expect that the story | would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, | but about rape, murder, and looting. | | But this is not a natural disaster. It is a | man-made disaster. | | The man-made disaster is not an inadequate | or incompetent response by federal relief | agencies, and it was not directly caused by | Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about | every newspaper and television channel has | gotten the story wrong. | | The man-made disaster we are now witnessing | in New Orleans did not happen over the past | four days. It happened over the past four | decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it | to public view. | | The man-made disaster is the welfare state. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 130) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:23:54 am | | gregy> | For the past few days, I have found the news | from New Orleans to be confusing. People | were not behaving as you would expect them | to behave in an emergency--indeed, they were | not behaving as they have behaved in other | emergencies. That is what has shocked so | many people: they have been saying that this | is not what we expect from America. In fact, | it is not even what we expect from a Third | World country. | | When confronted with a disaster, people | usually rise to the occasion. They work | together to rescue people in danger, and | they spontaneously organize to keep order | and solve problems. This is especially true | in America. We are an enterprising people, | used to relying on our own initiative rather | than waiting around for the government to | take care of us. I have seen this a hundred | times, in small examples (a small town whose | main traffic light had gone out, causing | ordinary citizens to get out of their cars | and serve as impromptu traffic cops, | directing cars through the intersection) and | large ones (the spontaneous response of New | Yorkers to September 11). | | So what explains the chaos in New Orleans? | | To give you an idea of the magnitude of what | is going on, here is a description from a | Washington Times story: | | "Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights | erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; | fires are breaking out; corpses litter the | streets; and police and rescue helicopters | are repeatedly fired on. | | "The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even | as National Guardsmen poured in to restore | order and stop the looting, carjackings and | gunfire.... | | "Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco | said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Š | Guard members were inside New Orleans with | shoot-to-kill orders. | | " 'These troops are...under my orders to | restore order in the streets,' she said. | 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and | loaded. These troops know how to shoot and | kill and they are more than willing to do so | if necessary and I expect they will.' " | | The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo | that accompanies this article shows National | Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, | riding on an armored vehicle through | trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of | squalid, listless people, one of whom | appears to be yelling at them. It looks | exactly like a scene from Sadr City in | Baghdad. | | What explains bands of thugs using a natural | disaster as an excuse for an orgy of | looting, armed robbery, and rape? What | causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses | that have arrived to evacuate them, causing | the drivers to drive away, frightened for | their lives? What causes people to attack | the doctors trying to treat patients at the | Super Dome? | | Why are people responding to natural | destruction by causing further destruction? | Why are they attacking the people who are | trying to help them? | | | ============================================================================ | | 131) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:24:34 am | | gregy> | My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and | she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. | While watching the coverage last night on | Fox News Channel, she told me that she was | getting a familiar feeling. She studied | architecture at the Illinois Institute of | Chicago, which is located in the South Side | of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert | Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise | public housing projects in America. "The | projects," as they were known, were infamous | for uncontrollable crime and irremediable | squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been | demolished.) | | What Sherri was getting from last night's | television coverage was a whiff of the sense | of life of "the projects." Then the | "crawl"--the informational phrases flashed | at the bottom of the screen on most news | channels--gave some vital statistics to | confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of | New Orleans had already evacuated before the | hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who | remained, a large number were from the | city's public housing projects. Jack | Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial | fact: early reports from CNN and Fox | indicated that the city had no plan for | evacuating all of the prisoners in the | city's jails--so they just let many of them | loose. There is no doubt a significant | overlap between these two populations--that | is, a large number of people in the jails | used to live in the housing projects, and | vice versa. | | There were many decent, innocent people | trapped in New Orleans when the deluge | hit--but they were trapped alongside large | numbers of people from two groups: | criminals--and wards of the welfare state, | people selected, over decades, for their | lack of initiative and self-induced | helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass | of sheep--on whom the incompetent | administration of New Orleans unleashed a | pack of wolves. | | All of this is related, incidentally, to the | apparent incompetence of the city | government, which failed to plan for a total | evacuation of the city, despite the | knowledge that this might be necessary. But | in a city corrupted by the welfare state, | the job of city officials is to ensure the | flow of handouts to welfare recipients and | patronage to political supporters--not to | ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case | of emergency. | | ============================================================================ | | 132) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:25:02 am | | gregy> | No one has really reported this story, as | far as I can tell. In fact, some are already | actively distorting it, blaming President | Bush, for example, for failing to personally | ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had | drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The | worst example is an execrable piece from the | Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious | Canadian who blames the chaos on American | "individualism." But the truth is precisely | the opposite: the chaos was caused by a | system that was the exact opposite of | individualism. | | What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the | psychological consequences of the welfare | state. What we consider "normal" behavior in | an emergency is behavior that is normal for | people who have values and take the | responsibility to pursue and protect them. | People with values respond to a disaster by | fighting against it and doing whatever it | takes to overcome the difficulties they | face. They don't sit around and complain | that the government hasn't taken care of | them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster | as an opportunity to prey on their fellow | men. | | But what about criminals and welfare | parasites? Do they worry about saving their | houses and property? They don't, because | they don't own anything. Do they worry about | what is going to happen to their businesses | or how they are going to make a living? They | never worried about those things before. Do | they worry about crime and looting? But | living off of stolen wealth is a way of life | for them. | | The welfare state--and the brutish, | uncivilized mentality it sustains and | encourages--is the man-made disaster that | explains the moral ugliness that has swamped | New Orleans. And that is the story that no | one is reporting. | | Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005 | | | | | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 133) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:34:03 am | | gregy> | Away from the coast and cameras, | victims cope without much hel... | http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/12 | Sun, 04 Sep 2005 03:28:19 | _________________________________________________ | Posted on Sat, Sep. 03, 2005 | | | | Away from the coast and cameras, victims | | cope without much help | | | | BY BRANDON BAILEY | | Knight Ridder Newspapers | | | | | | LUMBERTON, Miss. - (KRT) - It's been almost | | a week since Hurricane Katrina smashed its | | way across Louisiana, Mississippi and | | Alabama, and folks here are beginning to | | wonder whether they've been blown off the | | map. | | | | Like thousands of her rural neighbors, | | 72-year-old Gloria Jean Watts said she | | sympathizes with those suffering in the | | coastal cities. But she's hot, hungry and | | almost out of blood pressure medicine after | | a week of camping in a neighbor's | | sweltering living room and subsisting on a | | diet of little more than canned sausages. | | | | "They've completely forgotten about this | | town," said Watts, who said she hasn't seen | | any state or federal aid workers since the | | storm hit her trailer home in nearby | | Wellstown, Miss., about 70 miles north of | | Gulfport. "It's a disgrace." | | | | While they escaped the devastating floods | | that hit Biloxi, Gulfport and New Orleans, | | inland residents suffered damage to their | | homes and have spent the last several days | | without power or phones - and perilously | | short of drinkable water and gasoline. | | | | But while state and local authorities, | | including some detachments from the | | Mississippi National Guard, are | | distributing ice, water and food in larger | | towns, the residents of smaller communities | | are helping one another. | | | | "They are getting food in town, but there | | are a lot of people out in the country who | | don't have enough gas to drive in," said | | Blythe Odom, a veterinarian who was waiting | | outside a store in Poplarville, Miss., on | | Saturday morning. She spent a day and a | | half earlier this week using a chainsaw to | | clear the trees that had blocked the road | | to her home. | | | | People are queuing up for miles to buy gas | | for their cars and portable generators, but | | many gas stations are closed or open for | | only a few hours each day. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 134) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:34:40 am | | gregy> | Some rural residents have neither cars nor | | generators. Many said they're cooking | | outside on wood fires and trying to get | | into nearby towns for supplies when they | | can. But many smaller stores haven't | | reopened because supply schedules have been | | disrupted and there's no electricity to | | operate refrigerators, cash registers or | | other appliances.   | | | | Local officials said they've been told that | | it will take at least a week and maybe as | | many as six weeks to restore power in the | | more remote communities. | | | | "It's pretty rough. Everywhere you go, | | there are long lines," said Louis Sims, a | | stocky 60-year-old truck driver who'd | | driven into the small Mississippi community | | of Wiggins in search of supplies. | | | | Construction worker Iren Jones, 23, was | | spending Saturday afternoon tending a | | campfire outside his damaged trailer home | | about 10 miles east of Poplarville. He had | | enough gasoline to drive to an emergency | | depot at the country fairground, where | | local officials have been handing out bags | | of ice and donated food. | | | | Jones brought back several pounds of | | chicken, which he was planning to boil | | because he had no way to store it. "I'm not | | about to let it go to waste," he said. | | | | About 20 miles north in Lumberton, Linda | | Lee said she was "furious" that she hasn't | | seen more assistance from the outside world. | | | | There are 3,000 residents in Lumberton and | | about the same number living in the | | surrounding countryside, she said. There | | are equal numbers of blacks and whites, and | | most are very poor. About 85 percent of the | | schoolchildren qualify for subsidized | | lunches, said Lee, an administrator for the | | local school district. | | | | Earlier in the week, Lee decided to make | | use of cafeteria food supplies that were | | thawing in school freezers. She donated | | them to the local Masonic lodge, which has | | been cooking meals on charcoal grills for | | residents every day. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 135) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:35:25 am | | gregy> | In Lumberton, folks said the hero of the | | hurricane has been Chris Holzinger, a | | 28-year-old schoolteacher who's president | | of the local Masons. The day after Katrina | | hit, he unlocked the doors of the Masonic | | lodge and offered shelter to people who | | needed it. | | | | "We've got a lot of people helping out," | | Holzinger said. He's lived most of his life | | in town, but his shaven head, goatee and | | tribal armband tattoo make him look more | | like he's from San Francisco. | | | | Under an untucked polo shirt, Holzinger | | wore a small handgun on his hip - a | | precaution, he said, because there's been | | some looting of local stores, and everyone | | knows that food and water are being stored | | at the lodge. | | | | "People are getting panicky. There's been | | some trouble," acknowledged town alderman | | Terry Canaday. | | | | As he spoke, several police cars pulled up | | outside the Masonic lodge and members of | | the town's eight-member force began handing | | out bags of ice and cases of bottled water | | to about 150 people who quickly appeared | | from neighboring homes and buildings. | | | | The supplies were gone in 10 minutes, but | | they were all that the locals could | | scrounge from a state emergency depot. | | Police Chief Mike Childress said he was | | hoping to persuade the National Guard to | | send more supplies and some soldiers to | | help distribute them. | | | | For now, though, the residents of Lumberton | | are on their own. | | | | "We've done all this so far without any | | help from the country or anyone else," | | Childress said. | | | | --- | | | | (Bailey reports for the San Jose Mercury | | News.) | | | | --- | | | | © 2005, Knight Ridder/Tribune Information | | Services. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 136) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 5:23:22 am | | gregy> | National Review Online | (http://www.nationalreview.com) | http://frum.nationalreview.com/print/ | Sun, 04 Sep 2005 04:42:17 | _________________________________________ | | SEP. 2, 2005: UNFINEST HOUR | | I haven't posted much on the New | Orleans disaster. There are so many | people on the spot, adding so much | to genuine understanding, that it | seemed an absurd waste of your time | for me to add my distant words. | Tonight though I was invited by the | BBC to talk about the political | fall-out from Katrina with Sidney | Blumenthal. To prepare, I spent some | hours immersing myself in the | catalogue of left-wing attacks on | the Bush administration. | | Now let me declare at the onset: | Katrina has obviously not been the | finest hour of American emergency | management. There may well be fault | on the part of the federal | government and this administration. | I'm certainly open to evidence on | that point. | | But to review the wild, | contradictory, and utterly | opportunistic charges from the | administration's critics is to enter | a realm of madness. Some patient | bloggers are responding to the | charges one by one. Here is a post | in reply to the charge that the | levees were somehow neglected. Here | is an accounting for the Louisiana | National Guard: 8,000 of whom remain | on duty in-state, including the | Guard's most pertinent engineer | group, numbering four battalions. | | Here is a crushing reply to those | who blame the Bush administration | for hurricanes - when hurricane | activity has in fact dropped since | 1940. Here is one of many stories | detailing how the notorious New | Orleans police force led the | breakdown of civic order. (For those | who deplore the sharp drop-off in | the flow of federal funds to | Louisiana since 1999, here is a link | to one important explanation: the | resignation of former Speaker of the | House and Appropriations Committee | chairman Bob Livingston [R., La.] | after Larry Flynt and Hustler | magazine threatened to publish | details of Livingston's marital | infidelity, in order to punish | Republicans for the then-looming | impeachment of Bill Clinton on | perjury charges.) | | ============================================================================ | | 137) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 5:24:05 am | | gregy> | And yet ... and yet ... is all this | really necessary? The time will | come, and come very soon, when the | great self-critical mechanisms of | American society and government will | go to work to study what went wrong. | Those who deserve blame will get | blame in plenty then. But now - with | the dead still uncounted and | unburied, with the living still | struggling for refuge and help, is | there not something indecent about | the haste with which the American | left avidly tries to turn this | terrible disaster to political | account? | | Is there not something bizarre about | their willingness to fire off | accusation after accusation, each | contradicting the last? The disaster | was caused by the Bush | administration's failure to protect | the environment from global warming | .... no, no, it was caused by the | administration's refusal to | manipulate the environment by | funding more levees to control the | Mississippi River .... it's Iraq, no | it's budget cuts, no it's wetlands, | and on and on and on. | | Good God, what is wrong with these | people? Will they ever learn to see | somebody else's misfortune as | something more than their political | opportunity? | | Mississippi governor Haley Barbour | is right. This tragedy is bringing | out the worst in many people. And I | wonder, as I watch the volunteers | cooking food for the houseless in | the Houston Astrodome, or supplies | being delivered by rescue workers | who are living in cars because there | is no place else for them, or the | elderly being hoisted to safety - I | wonder: why at a moment like this | can we not live up to their generous | spirit. Why can't we act first, | investigate afterward, and let blame | and credit be apportioned as they | are due, when they are due? | | 12:23 AM | Links from article: | | http://frum.nationalreview.com/ | http://www.columbiatribune.com/2005/Aug/20050831News017.asp | http://www.techcentralstation.com/090105A.html | http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/9/1/125948/7993 | http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/8/31/04148/2070 | http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/9/1/221441/6933 | http://www.answers.com/topic/bob-livingston | | ============================================================================ | | 138) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 5:24:50 am | | gregy> | National Review Online | (http://www.nationalreview.com) | Sun, 04 Sep 2005 05:13:16 | _______________________________________ | | September 02, 2005, 7:19 a.m. | Where are the Guardsmen? | Right where they ought to be. | | | | So is the war in Iraq causing troop shortfalls for hurricane | relief in New Orleans? | | In a word, no. | | A look at the numbers should dispel that notion. Take the Army | for example. There are 1,012,000 soldiers on active duty, in | the Reserves, or in the National Guard. Of them, 261,000 are | deployed overseas in 120 countries. Iraq accounts for 103,000 | soldiers, or 10.2 percent of the Army. | | That’s all? Yes, 10.2 percent. That datum is significant in | itself, a good one to keep handy the next time someone talks | about how our forces are stretched too thin, our troops are at | the breaking point, and so forth. If you add in Afghanistan | (15,000) and the support troops in Kuwait (10,000) you still | only have 12.6 percent. | | So where are the rest? 751,000 (74.2 percent) are in the U.S. | About half are active duty, and half Guard and Reserve. The | Guard is the real issue of course — the Left wants you to | believe that the country has been denuded of its citizen | soldiers, and that Louisiana has suffered inordinately because | Guardsmen and women who would have been available to be | mobilized by the state to stop looting and aid in | reconstruction are instead risking their lives in Iraq. | | Not hardly. According to Lieutenant General H. Steven Blum, | chief of the National Guard Bureau, 75 percent of the Army and | Air National Guard are available nationwide. In addition, the | federal government has agreed since the conflict in Iraq | started not to mobilize more than 50 percent of Guard assets | in any given state, in order to leave sufficient resources for | governors to respond to emergencies. | | In Louisiana only about a third of Guard personnel are | deployed, and they will be returning in about a week as part | of their normal rotation. The Mississippi Guard has 40 percent | overseas. But Louisiana and Mississippi are not alone in this | effort — under terms of Emergency Management Assistance | Compacts (EMACs) between the states, Guard personnel are | heading to the area from West Virginia, D.C., New Mexico, | Utah, Missouri, Ohio, Oklahoma, Alabama, Washington, Indiana, | Georgia, Kentucky, and Michigan. Thousands have already | arrived, and more will over the next day or so. | | | ============================================================================ | | 139) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 5:25:32 am | | gregy> | The New York Times has called the military response “a costly | game of catch up.” Catching up compared to what, one wonders. | National Guard units were mobilized immediately; 7,500 troops | from four states were on the ground within 24 hours of Katrina | — a commendable response given the disruptions to the | transportation infrastructure. The DOD response is well ahead | of the 1992 Hurricane Andrew timetable. Back then, the support | request took nine days to crawl through the bureaucracy. The | reaction this time was less than three days officially, and | DOD had been pre-staging assets in anticipation of the aid | request from the moment Katrina hit. DOD cannot act | independently of course; the Federal Emergency Management | Agency (FEMA) is the lead agency. Requests for assistance have | to be routed from local officials through FEMA to U.S. | Northern Command and then to the necessary components. In | practice, this means state officials have to assess damage and | determine relief requirements; FEMA has to come up with a plan | for integrating the military into the overall effort; DOD has | to begin to pack and move the appropriate materiel, and deploy | sufficient forces. This has all largely been or is being | accomplished. Seven thousand mostly Navy and other specialized | assets are currently in the area directly supporting hurricane | relief, and a much larger number of other forces are en route. | The process has been functioning remarkably smoothly under the | circumstances. | | It is hard to understand what more should, or realistically | could have been done up to this point. A disaster of this | magnitude is certain to be politicized, but it seems early in | the game to be assessing blame for a response effort that has | only been underway a few days in a crisis that is still | developing; particularly such a rapid response. Moreover, it | is simply not plausible to use the situation to critique the | force structure in Iraq. The Guard is demonstrating that it | can fulfill both its state and federal responsibilities, as it | was designed and intended to do. Of course, it is impossible | to win in these situations; critics will always find a way. A | year ago after Hurricane Charley, the president was accused of | responding too quickly, allegedly to curry favor with Florida | voters. Back then only a few fringe characters tried to make | the Iraq/Guard connection. It is a shame that the Times has | drifted in their direction. | | — James S. Robbins is senior fellow in national-security | affairs at the American Foreign Policy Council, a trustee for | the Leaders for Liberty Foundation, and an NRO contributor. | | ============================================================== | | http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins200509020719.asp | | | ============================================================================ | | 140) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 6:24:54 am | | gregy> | DRUDGE REPORT 2005® | http://www.drudgereport.com/ | Sun, 04 Sep 2005 06:21:25 | ____________________________ | ===================== | | WHY DIDN'T YOU | DEPLOY THE BUSES | DURING THE MANDATORY | EVACUATION, MAYOR?... | | | Louisiana disaster | plan, pg 13, para 5 | , dated 01/00 | | 'The primary means | of hurricane | evacuation will be | personal vehicles. | School and municipal | buses, | government-owned | vehicles and | vehicles provided by | volunteer agencies | may be used to | provide | transportation for | individuals who lack | transportation and | require assistance | in evacuating'... | ===================== | | ============================================================================ | | 141) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 7:54:33 am | | gregy> | Why The Katrina Coverage | Made Me Switch To Fox News! - The Pos | http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/printer_21 | Sun, 04 Sep 2005 07:50:43 | ___________________________________________________ | The Post Chronicle™ | | Commentary | Why The Katrina Coverage Made Me Switch To Fox News! | By Lee Ellis | Sep 3, 2005 | | Watching both Fox and NBC after President Bush had been inspecting the | Gulf Coast and New Orleans, I was shocked at how the nets, and even | some newspapers, were trying to blame the Bush Administration for the | slowness in which help was reaching the damaged cities. | | Obviously, Brian Williams and his news team do not know the law, nor | do they know the past history of New Orleans--a city built in a | bathtub of a swamp. This is a city where the dead, for centuries, | have had to be buried in above-ground structures because the water is | so close to the surface of this sinking city. If coffins are put in | the ground, they will rise to the surface as the underground water | pushes them up. I have been to these cemeteries personally to witness | this. | | For decades, New Orleans has been told that the city is sinking, and | that the old levees have to be rebuilt and modernized in order to keep | the city from being flooded. Local officials never finished the work, | nor have pleas to Congress for additional federal help been heeded. | Congress has simply never seen fit to fully complete this effort, | whether controlled by Democrats or Republicans. | | "Why did it take five days for Bush to help?" is the mantra constantly | voiced by all the "Talking Heads" on TV. Here are the reasons: | | (1) It is against the law for any President to order troops into a | city or across state lines without a request and permission from the | Governor of that state. | | John Armor, a First Amendment lawyer and one of my favorite writers, | told me, "Federal law prevents the President from sending in the | National Guard until the Governor gives the order. It is little | known, but the Commanding General of the National Guard in every state | reports to the Governor, not the President, until the Governor says | otherwise. U.S. military units (regular Army, not the Guard) cannot | be used because of the Posse Comitatus law, until the Guard has been | authorized." | | | According to some news sources, the Governor of Louisiana, who knew | the levees were weak, who knew that the city had been slowly sinking, | and who knew that a major # 5 hurricane was approaching her city, did | not call Washington for help. | | | ============================================================================ | | 142) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 7:55:19 am | | gregy> | (2) The Mayor of New Orleans did call for evacuation over a | loud-speaker, but did nothing to be sure that the police went | door-to-door, followed by transportation, to pick up all those who did | not have cars or any ability to leave. | | There was no other leadership practiced by the mayor there, as had | been in New York City during 9/11 by Mayor Giuliani. | | (3) The hurricane veered east and saved New Orleans, Brian Williams | announced a week ago, and all breathed a sigh of relief...until the | levees broke a day or two later allowing the surrounding waters to | pour into the city. | | (4) It was this predicted levee failure which had been ignored for so | long that doomed the local people to be held hostage in their attics | or on rooftops, not the storm. It was also the failure of the local | bureaucrats and local elected leaders to maintain law and order, and | to have pre-arranged for complete evacuations of the city. | | It was only after a request went out to the President that troops | could be sent in. Can you imagine the anti-Bush media screaming that | Bush had invaded Louisiana as he had done in Iraq if he had gone in | before being asked? I can just imagine The New York Times headlining, | "A Repeat of Shock and Awe by Bush!" | | Bill O'Reilly, on Fox News, was the only commentator I heard who | explained this. All the other network commentators seemed too willing | to allow the implication inferred by the viewers, that this was all | the fault of the Bush Administration. | | I guess the Far Left also works in mysterious ways! | | Now you know why my channel is glued to Fox News, and why I no longer | listen to NBC or its aide-de-camp, MSNBC! | | © Copyright 2004-2005 by The Post Chronicle™ | Top of Page | | ============================================================================ | | 143) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:58:38 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"broke....and it didn't "catastrophically fail" in an instant...it | started to leak, then leaked some more, then more, then breached...it | did NOT happen until AFTER the storm was already well past..(just the | trailing-edge rain squalls)...so..." | | And it was not until long after the planes crashed into the twin towers | that they actully collapsed. | | The planes caused fires, the fires weakened the super-structure, the | weakened super-stucture of allowed gravity to pull the upper floors down | unto the floors below them, those floors continued to allow gravity to | pull successive floors down onto the floors below them.... etc...etc... | | Gravity actually did most of the damage... not the planes themselves. | | GOD created gravity. | | Therefore, terrorists did not destroy the twin towers..... GOD did. | | ============================================================================ | | 144) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 4:06:37 pm | | glennmcc> | re:".... And 'splain to me how come they think they | can continue to get away with this kinda propaganda...??? | I'll 'splain to you...they're STUPID!!!!!...and they think they can get | away with this, 'cause they think I'M as stupid as they are...!!!" | | | They _are_ getting away with it and they will continue to get away with it. | | That's because the 'general public' _IS_ stupid. | | They believe whatever they are told by whomever is 'in athority'. | | The government... the 'autoritative news crew'... the highly educated | metoraolgists... the proffesor with the 'best cridentials'..... | etc...etc... etc... | Whomever it might be in whom the 'general public' places the greastest trust | | 'People in general' do not believe facts. | | They believe what they are told by whomever tells the most believable lie. | | | ============================================================================ | | 145) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 4:17:45 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"With the sorry misinformation-operation the MLSM has been running on | this business, I'm not believing ANYTHING (pro or con) that they say." | | | Well then, I have but one suggestion for you. | | Since you already agree that most of the reports are either untrue | or are a distortion of the facts......... | | Stop reading them. | | ============================================================================ | | 146) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 4:54:13 pm | | Jake> | Turn the pages, take a quick look at the Sports section, then settle down | with the crossword? | | ============================================================================ | | 147) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 7:58:00 pm | | glennmcc> | The comic section would be much better idea. | | Laughter... the best medicine. | | | ============================================================================ | | 148) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 9:00:46 pm | | gregy> | FWIW....that's the only reason I ever buy a newspaper, anymore,... | ..the comics..... | .. | | | ============================================================================ | | 149) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 9:28:33 pm | | gregy> | Glenn...I partially agree with you...but....perhaps I need to restate | my point... | .. | 1. The BREACH (not overwash, flooding, etc) occured after the storm | had gone past (except for trailing rain). | 2. The BREACH occurred in a newly upgraded section that was NOT earth | dike, it was of straight (can recall how many feet thick) concrete | walls. | 3. There was NO prior warning that the levee was leaking. ARAIR, we | first heard about the breach in a report that the "water was rising" | ..."due to a breach" which, BTW, continued to get wider (first reports | were of a 200ft breach later widened to current 600ft). This means that | they never had dike-walkers/watchers out, or we would have known about | the "leak" before it turned into a 200ft wide breach. | 4. Ebbert (NO emergency chief) put 15,000 (all numbers approximate from | here on out) refugees in the Convention Center and failed to tell FEMA | they were there. FEMA only knew about the Superdome bunch and the bunch | out under the I-10 overpass (I'm not sure about the overpass, but I | think I recall that FEMA was told about them). | 5. Nobody in federal gov, other states, etc, got calls for more | National Guard troops until Thursday. And, why should they...Louisiana | had/has 8000 of its own NG troops INCLUDING its Heavy Engineering | Brigade, precisely designed/equiped to do jobs like the ones involved | here. | 6. Those buses - Someone has counted over 250 school buses in that | first AP photo, someone else counted over 300 in another photo of the | same lot. Also, NOcity is KNOWN to own over 300 city-transit buses. | 7. Cops were notoriously (seen in photos and videos) inept, ineffective | and corrupt (joining/encouraging looting). | 8. Gov Blanco had to be urged by Bush Admin to order mandatory evac, | or there wouldn't have been even those out, who DID get out. | | So, were there levee walkers...??? Hey...seems like someone would have | mentioned them by now... | | All of the above point to a definitely imcompetent local government, | from the state down to the N.O. city. | | But, they're all trying to spin it to make it look like the feds are | or were at fault... | .. | FACT...levee breached on a recently UPGRADED (money/funds were spent) | section of the canal levee. So, lack of fed funds is not cause, reason, | excuse. | FACT...levee breached off in a corner, out of sight...meaning noone was | assigned to walk/monitor it by the corrupt/incompetent city gov. | FACT...FACT...FACT...FACT...after fact....all show incompetence and lack | of action at the state and local level. This is not to say the feds | didn't also make mistakes...but the DIRECT CAUSE type mistakes were done | at the local and state levels.. | | | ============================================================================ | | 150) Mon, Sep 05, 2005 - 1:59:07 pm | | glennmcc> | I did not make my pint clear enough. | | FACT... Since niether you nor I were there. We do not know if any of | those 'facts' we are hearing on the news are true. | | Was it a 'recently upgraded' section ? | | I don't know... I have not seen it with my own eyes. | | I have nothing to go on but what I hear on the news, read in papers | or see on the web. | | Until we actually travel to the levee and see it for ourselves... | we can't state as a matter of fact what actually happened. | | | ============================================================================ | | 151) Mon, Sep 05, 2005 - 9:07:03 pm | | gregy> | ah..okay...then nothing anyone else says has ANY value...?? | .. | Well, I can't live/work that way...so... | .. | And, I would have no assurance that we actually had flown in space, | put a submarine underwater all the way round the world, etc, etc, etc | ...too many etces to even begin to list. | .. | Most of us can't live/work that way either... | .. | So, while we "rest of us" argue from "facts" that may NOT be facts | (that are pretty certainly facts, but we didn't see them ourselves), | you just keep in mind that "we're living the best we can"... | ...without being able to check EVERY little point, ourselves.. | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 152) Mon, Sep 05, 2005 - 10:22:22 pm | | glennmcc> | So.... are planning on doing something about those facts ? | | Or are you simply blowing off steam ? | | ============================================================================ | | 153) Mon, Sep 05, 2005 - 10:36:47 pm | | gregy> | Well...I'm not gonna do anything about those "facts" since I'm up here | in Montana, and those "facts" are down there on the Gulf Coast....but | ...just "to keep the peace".........here's a bonafide, absolute, | certain, "just maybe" FACT: | | The top U.S. national news | headlines from Yahoo! News | http://news.yahoo.com/ | Mon, 05 Sep 2005 22:34:57 | ____________________________________________________________________________ | | Crews Plug Levee Break a Week After Storm | | AP - 19 minutes ago | | NEW ORLEANS - A week after Hurricane Katrina swept through, engineers | plugged the levee break that had swamped much of the city and floodwaters | began to recede, but along with the good news came the mayor's direst | prediction yet: as many as 10,000 dead. | *Slideshow: Hurricanes & Tropical Storms | * Video: Finding and Burying the Dead in New Orleans | | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 154) Mon, Sep 05, 2005 - 10:37:25 pm | | gregy> | | | | ============================================================================ | | 155) Mon, Sep 05, 2005 - 10:44:35 pm | | gregy> | But, just to let you know what procedures I go thru to "double-check" | ... | At the height of the "katrina crisis"...I saw a news headline about, | "Arson in Rome - arsonists setting cars, motorcycles, etc on fire" | ... | I immediately started running round other news sites, and found no | further hint of it. I rechecked the original site a day later, and the | blurb was pulled. Haven't seen anything about it since....so...I | conclude it was ERROR...I mean, not even a "maybe true" FACT:... | | | ============================================================================ | | 156) Mon, Sep 05, 2005 - 10:46:21 pm | | gregy> | Oh, and another "maybetrue" FACT: President Bush has renominated Judge | Roberts to fill the Chief Justice vacancy.... | ... | Now...mind you...I am not THERE..!!! so, this is only a "maybetrue" | FACT.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 157) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 12:36:40 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.americandaughter.com/timeline.html | | Now, "maybetrue"...since I'm not there..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 158) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 1:11:06 am | URL | | gregy> | 'nother bunch of "maybetrue" FACTS.... | | http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2005/09/05/the-fulminator/ | | | ============================================================================ | | 159) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 3:02:31 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05249/566101.stm | | | | ============================================================================ | | 160) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 4:23:46 am | | Jake> | I count you guys as friends and (for some things) expert advisors... | | YET... | | I _know_ & like & trust people (admittedly, from a _long_ time ago) at the m | department which has a supercomputer and supposedly a bunch of freeloading a | but which nevertheless is entrusted in supplying the UK Govt with met data. | | So, I read post 151 with interest | | ============================================================================ | | 161) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 5:17:11 am | | gregy> | Jake...post 151, here...??? | ... | You mean, I COULD BE WRONG...???..... | .... | he he he....look, your gov-sci buddies, in the hush of their meeting | rooms, strictly amoung themselves, in quiet whispers, will admit that | data does NOT strictly show "earth-warming" to the extent that they(?? | - Idon't know what "they" are prophesying/claiming) report/predict. | ... | What I DO know is: ALL scientific data agrees that there WAS a | "Medieval Warm Period (600-1400??? all dates approx)", that there WAS | a "Little Ice Age (1450-1870???)" and that we are NOT YET back to the | temperature levels of the Medieval Warm Period. You can study this on | the net, just google those two term, and go from there. | ... | CONCLUSION: Just from that data, we can scientifically conclude that | glob-waam (if happening at all) is NOT necessarily caused by industrial | growth, and may not be being adversly affected now. What your buddies | supercomputers are regurgatating is the "garbageINgarbageOUT" that | comes from faulty premises, models, and jiggeryly-twisted data. | ... | I respect you, too, and I know Glenn does also....if I didn't, I | wouldn't bother discussing/arguing with you....I'd just dust my hands | and send you off with a grinning "whatever".... | | | ============================================================================ | | 162) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 5:20:03 am | | gregy> | As for Post 151...if you mean I could be wrong....well, of course... | ..(even though that's never been know to happen, previously.........) | ... | Just, show the sound data. I'm listening. I have investigated and | dug and have found nothing that hints that industrialization has caused | any significant glob-waam.... | ... | But, I'm open to any REAL data.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 163) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 5:40:40 am | | gregy> | DRUDGE REPORT FLASH 2005® | http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3kt.htm | Tue, 06 Sep 2005 05:39:57 | ___________________________________________ | | NEW ORLEANS FLASHBACK: OFFICALS WARNED RESIDENTS 'YOU'LL BE ON YOUR OWN' | Mon Sep 05 2005 18:57:15 ET | | Before residents had ever heard the words "Hurricane Katrina," the New | Orleans TIMES-PICAYUNE ran a story warning residents: If you stay behind | during a big storm, you'll be on your own! | | Editors at TIMES-PICAYUNE on Monday called for every official at the | Federal Emergency Management Agency to be fired. In an open letter to | President Bush, the paper said: "Our people deserved rescuing. Many who | could have been were not. That's to the government's shame." | | But the TIMES-PICAYUNE published a story on July 24, 2005 stating: City, | state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give a historically | blunt message: "In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own." | | Staff writer Bruce Nolan reported some 7 weeks before Katrina: "In | scripted appearances being recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray | Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council | President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have | the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people | without transportation." | | "In the video, made by the anti-poverty agency Total Community Action, | they urge those people to make arrangements now by finding their own ways | to leave the city in the event of an evacuation. | | "You're responsible for your safety, and you should be responsible for the | person next to you," Wilkins said in an interview. "If you have some room | to get that person out of town, the Red Cross will have a space for that | person outside the area. We can help you." | | Developing... | | | ============================================================================ | | 164) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 6:01:37 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050905/capt.txps10109051452.k | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 165) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 6:44:47 am | URL | | gregy> | | | http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/columnists/orl-porter605sep06,0,4599250. | | | ============================================================================ | | 166) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 6:52:38 am | URL | | gregy> | Here's one for you, Glenn,...... | | http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/story/0,16441,1563532,00.html | | | | ============================================================================ | | 167) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 7:14:38 pm | | glennmcc> | Didn't mean to get your dander up. | | All I meant to convey is simply.... "don't believe everything you read" | | As that link says... "may yet prove to be apocryphal" | | And perhaps that link itself is apocryphal. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 168) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 9:34:39 pm | | gregy> | Well, I was still ing so my dander wasn't up TOO much... | .. | And...you gotta understand, I LIKE to razz folks, if I think they are | up to it.... | ... | And, yes...it COULD be apocryphal, but (shhhhh, don't even whisper) | it's really imaginary...... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 169) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 9:38:22 pm | | gregy> | And, you're right...about believing what we read. But, from my previous | posts, I don't even mention anything unless it shows up in three or more | different-type sources....like that "Rome Car-arsonist" which did NOT | showup anywhere else on the web, so I mentioned it as a possible error | report, BUT...now....this morning, I noticed the Rome Police are back | with a report of it.....seems they caught some Algerian guy who'd been | torching cars, motorcycles for some time.....they mentioned 260 fires | ...or there abouts... | | | ============================================================================ | | 170) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 9:59:58 pm | | glennmcc> | Watch it there dude... | | That's only two, and does not comply with.... | | "...unless it shows up in three or more...." | | | | ============================================================================ | | 171) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 10:51:10 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007219 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 172) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 11:16:52 pm | URL | | gregy> | And, here's one for Jake.... | | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4216508.stm | | | | ============================================================================ | | 173) Tue, Sep 06, 2005 - 11:40:19 pm | | gregy> | WorldNetDaily: | The battle of New Orleans | http://www.worldnetdaily.com/ | ..Tue, 06 Sep 2005 23:34:24 | ___________________________________ | | ============================ | The battle of New Orleans | | ============================ | Posted: September 7, 2005 | 1:00 a.m. Eastern | | © 2005 WorldNetDaily.com | | When a disaster such as | Katrina occurs, the first | thing some people think to | do is to place the blame. | Because it was New Orleans | that took the biggest hit, | it figures that some people | see it as God's vengeance | for the city's libertine | ways. Likening the Big Easy | to Sodom and Gomorrah gives | them the satisfaction of | finding a reason behind | such an unreasonable event. | | For some of us, people who | tend to be fairly objective | when it comes to the nature | of things, including nature | itself, the calamity comes | under the general heading | of "stuff happens." At such | times, even those of us who | claim to be non-believers | thank God that we ourselves | were spared such unholy | devastation. | | Actually, when such a | disaster takes place, one | of the only positive things | to say for it is that it | tends to make people more | appreciative of their own | weather. That | good-for-nothing tramp | Katrina made every American | who didn't have to deal | with her grateful that they | merely have to cope with | heat waves and humidity. | InŠ the same way, the | Northridge earthquake, | whose epicenter was a scant | two miles due west of our | home, made even the folks | in Minnesota and North | Dakota ecstatic that they | merely had to dig their way | out of snow, and not out of | rubble. | | The other upside to Katrina | is that it provided so many | people with the opportunity | to behave honorably, | generously, even | heroically, and to remind | us that, in spite of tons | of evidence to the | contrary, perhaps the human | race actually deserves to | survive, after all. | | The people I could not | begin to fathom were those | like Robert Kennedy Jr., | the self-proclaimed energy | conservationist who flies | hither and thither in | private jets, who blamed | President Bush for the | disaster. If only he had | signed the Kyoto Accord, | according to Kennedy and | his cronies, Katrina would | have been nothing more than | a gentle breeze. Working | their selective memories | overtime, they ignore the | fact that hurricanes have | been with us far longer | than George Bush has been | in the White House, longer | even than there's even been | a White House or an aerosol | can. | | It begs the question | whether there is any evil, | any calamity, that could | take place anywhere on | Earth that these people | wouldn't lay at the feet of | the poor guy. When you | start scapegoating theŠ | president for the pranks of | Mother Nature, where does | it end? Their hatred of | Bush is so all-encompassing | that I suspect it must | strike even many of those | who don't share the man's | politics as preposterous. I | suppose they will next | suggest that the snake in | the Garden of Eden hissed | with a Texas accent. | | The truth is, if anybody is | to blame for the misery in | New Orleans, it's Jean | Baptiste Le Moyne de | Bienville, who ignored the | warnings of his engineers, | in 1718, when he created a | settlement below sea level | in a swampland between the | Mississippi and the Gulf of | Mexico. Voila, New Orleans! | | Leave it to a Frenchman. | | Burt Prelutsky has been a | humor columnist for the | L.A. Times, a movie critic | for Los Angeles magazine | and a freelance writer for | TV Guide, Modern Maturity, | the N.Y. Times and Sports | Illustrated. He has also | written TV scripts for | shows such as "Dragnet," | "MASH," "Mary Tyler Moore" | and "Diagnosis Murder." His | most recent book is | "Conservatives Are From | Mars, Liberals Are From San | Francisco." | | ============================================================================ | | 174) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 1:40:45 am | URL | | gregy> | | | http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep2005/20050905_2620.html | | | | ============================================================================ | | 175) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 4:21:11 am | | gregy> | It is now being widely, reliably, reported that Times-Picayune Newspaper | reporters (2 each) went out immediately after the eye of the hurricane | passed, and found ...wait for it...."THE BREACH IN THE DIKE(LEVEE)" | ...and...the paper posted this on it's website (couldn't print it, | 'cause the rising water made them evac their downtown headquarters)... | .. | Then...they kept waiting for "some word from FederalEmergencyManagement | Agency (FEMA).... | ... | Now, if the reporters could spot the breach...why couldn't the "official | levee walkers" (assuming that some folks are correct, and I'm all wet | when I say THEY HAD NONE)...why couldn't those assummed-in-place levee | walkers spot the breach....and this over 12 hours before the city gov | and Mayor got real wind of it......?????????????????????????????? | ... | However, Time-Pic made the common erroneous error of waiting for FEMA | to "speak a word"....why....??? HOW COME THEY NEVER NOTIFIED THEIR | CITY GOV/Mayor....???? Those were the folks on-the-ground, who were | supposed to be "first responders" dealing with the immediate effects of | the hurricane...?????? | Seems that the "herd mentality" poisons the whole culture down there in | New Orleans.....wait for the feds, wait for the feds, wait for the feds | ..yada, yada, yada..... | ... | but...perhaps that's to be expected...perhaps the Times-Pic never tried | to get any response from the city/state authorities, since they are | part of the local infrastructure and they KNEW those authorities were | worthless....so...wait for the feds, yada, yada, yada.....!!!!!!! | | | ============================================================================ | | 176) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 3:04:10 pm | | glennmcc> | Correct me if I'm wrong here. | | Was it mnot originally reported that the breach di not occur untill | after the huricane ahd passed ? Also that said breach was caused by | secondary rain fall ? | | | But _now_ it is being reported the the breach was discovered | "... immediately after the eye of the hurricane passed...". | | Again correct me if I'm wrong. | Is not the eye the middle of the huricane and as such... at that time | the huricane had not yet passed, but rather only the 1st half of it had | passed ? | | The 2nd half then hit as the huricane continued on its way. | | BRB | | ============================================================================ | | 177) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 3:10:57 pm | | glennmcc> | Yep... there's part of it...... | | | 54) Wed, Aug 31, 2005 - 9:07:16 pm | 3. The storm had already gone over, when the levees failed. | | If I'm not mistaken.... since it is now reported that the breach was | there right after the eyes passed..... | The levees failed not after "the storm had already gone over", but | rather when only the 1st half had gone over. | | | ============================================================================ | | 178) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 3:23:08 pm | | glennmcc> | And more.... | | 95) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 12:06:37 am | | boot, they had NO ONE walking/watching those banks and levees for leaks, | before and immediately after the storm went past.....so....the canal | band leaked (slowly, as witness that it took a whole day) until it ate | a hole in the bank, which ate more, all the while letting the LAKE flow | thru the canal bank hole into the city. | | Question. | Did it take a whole day as those witnesses said ? | | Or is the more recent report correct that the breach was already there | after only the 1st half of the storm had passed ??? | | ============================================================================ | | 179) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 3:29:03 pm | | glennmcc> | And still more........ | | 109) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 10:38:40 pm | This is a news report about the "Mandatory Evac Order" given on Sunday. | | Question. | | Since the entire area was supposedly under that "Mandatory Evac Order" | | Just whom do you suppose should have been chosen to defy that order and | stay behind to walk the levees looking for leaks immediately after the | storm went past ??? | | ".....walking/watching those banks and levees for leaks, | before and immediately after the storm went past..." | ___________^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^______ | | | Can you think of anyone whom might volunteer to stay behind to do so | out of the kindness of their heart ??? | | ============================================================================ | | 180) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 5:49:18 pm | URL | | Jake> | Amnesty for cows! All users of portable electrical devices to be encouraged | to keep their own multi-purpose battery replacement and contribute to a net | reduction in global warming. | | Note to editors: cows may also be used for blocking gaps in fences, helping | with flower pressing etc., etc. | | | ============================================================================ | | 181) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 6:12:40 pm | | glennmcc> | Ah... but don't you see the problem here ? | | If the demand rises for cow dung batteries... we will need more cows. | | More cows == more cow farts == an even bigger problem to the ozone layer | | | | ============================================================================ | | 182) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 7:00:10 pm | | Jake> | But shirley the reduction in battery production will more than counterbalanc | | Note to self: abandon research in cow plasters and develop fart-collection b | for portable gas cooker. Look into market for cow-fart-fuelled plumber's tor | | ============================================================================ | | 183) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 7:32:41 pm | | glennmcc> | Now you're talking !!!! | | You just might be able to turn a profit on those devices. ;-) | | | ============================================================================ | | 184) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 9:52:30 pm | | gregy> | Yep...Tuesday, NEW YORK TIMES (paper of record, remember) headline was | "Hurricane Katrina Misses New Orleans".... | ... | Times-Picayune had already posted the report of the breached levees | (it is being reliably reported, now) on their website the previous | afternoon/evening..... | ... | It seems that TP reporters were able to spot it immediately after the | storm had passed, it looks like "after the eye" means after the storm | was passed. | .. | Question still remains, what did the Dike/Levee Monitors/Patrollers/ | Walkers see, When did they see it, When did they report it, To Whom | did they report it to in city gov, To Whom did they report it to in | state gov, To Whom did they report it to in fed gov... | ... | Still falls back to "who saw the breach, who reported the breach, to | whom did they report it".... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 185) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 9:54:39 pm | | gregy> | Glenn, I may be misinterpreting, "eye of the hurrican passed" would mean | after ALL the hurricane's eye had passed over. What you describe is | being "in the eye of the hurricane".....been there, done that... | | | ============================================================================ | | 186) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 9:59:30 pm | | gregy> | And, you're right..."originally reported the breach was found Tuesday | afternoon....when it was widely reported by new services....but, Tuesday | morning, it was still being reported that hurricane had missed New | Orleans, not causing major damage (see post 184).... | ... | So, back to those hypothetical (or actual, depending upon viewpoint) | Levee Walkers - the people hired/paid to monitor/patrol those levees.. | ... | What did they see, when did they see it, to whom did they report it..??? | ... | I mean, if the Times-Picayune reporters could see it, and report it back | to their newsroom, surely the Levee Walkers could see it, and report it | back to their overseeing authorities (city, state, whatever).... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 187) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 10:02:13 pm | | gregy> | And, when they did, I'm sure the city authorities immediately order | those 200+ School Buses and 300+ CityTransitBuses to be moved to higher | ground so they could be quickly used to evacuate the tens of thousands | of refugees holed up in the Superdome, ConventionCenter, and at the | overpass on I-10..... | ... | Wait, that didn't happen....hmmmmm....makes you wonder.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 188) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 10:23:00 pm | | glennmcc> | Did those reporters see a breach ? | | Or are they simply now saying they did but in reality did not ? | | If they did... why keep it secret from everyone till now ? | | The 1st I heard of it was in your post. | | Then heard it twice during the day on the TV down at the coffee shop. | | If they really did see a breach over a week ago.... why keep of secret ? | | Isn't it more likely that they did not actully see a breach last week | but they are now saying that they did so that they can gain | "World wide acclaim" as being the 1st ones to see a breach ? | | No-one can deny the fact that they _are_ now getting that "World wide | publicity" that every reporter dreams of. | | Isn't that insentive enough to lie about what they did or did not see ? | | | ============================================================================ | | 189) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 10:36:55 pm | | gregy> | Glenn...I see your point...and I would agree completely, but reliable | "other" outlets/organizations are reporting that Times-Pic had the | report posted on their website, by at least Monday evening. | ... | AsFarAsIKnow, they did not report to/inform anyone else. I have sent | them are few brief questions, which they have not yet answered, about | Who did they report it to, When did they report it...(other than just | putting the newsreport on their website)... | ... | I'll surely let you know when/if they reply to me... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 190) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 10:41:20 pm | | gregy> | FWIW...my questions are sort of a time bomb for them....if their | reporters saw the breach and only put the report on their website, but | failed to report it to city authorities, then they have something to | answer for....if they reported it, then whomever they told has more to | answer for... | ... | You're in the same boat I am......you may have spotted it on my post, | then on TV news, etc...same for me, only I spotted it on the web, then | checked at the NOLA.COM website (Times-Pic site)..... | ... | IF...if they actually posted it Monday afternoon/evening...then they | were first...which raises the question about why everyone else was | NOT reporting it until Tuesday afternoon.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 191) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 10:43:37 pm | | gregy> | But, of course, we know those Lever Walkers/patrollers/monitors, who I | claim DID NOT EXIST, must have spotted the breach before, or at the | same time, or shortly after the Times-Picayune reporters did...and, of | course said Levee Monitors immediately reported the breach to their | proper authorities.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 192) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 10:48:15 pm | | gregy> | As far as the Times-Pic reporters/editors/management lying about them | seeing the breach and reporting it on their website on Monday evening, | I don't have any real feel for how truthful the Times-Pic might be, | generally... | .. | If it was the New York Times claiming this...I'd quickly say, "Hogwash, | prove it...!!!"...but, then they have absolutely NO credibility....but | some other Newspapers are relatively truthful...and I'm not going to | claim the Times-Pic claim is false, not when others verify their report | of posting it on their website Monday evening... | ... | However, time will tell..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 193) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 10:50:56 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/7/235423.shtml | | ============================================================================ | | 194) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 11:40:32 pm | | glennmcc> | Re:"189) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 10:36:55 pm | ...... but reliable "other" outlets/organizations......." | | On what grounds do you base your conclusion that they are reliable ? | | What have they ever done to prove to you that they can be trusted to | tell the truth ? | | What is it that makes 'News paper A' a reliable source while | 'TV News station B' is an un-reliable source ?? | | The number of lies that 'TV News station B' has been caught in compared | to the lack of such cases that 'News paper A' has been caught in ? | | Just how is it that one 'gauges' the reliability of the said various sources | | ============================================================================ | | 195) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 11:43:52 pm | | glennmcc> | "Gov. Kathleen Blanco's Bureaucrats Blocked Food and Water" | | That _must_ be a true story..... it comes to us from a 'reliable source'. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 196) Wed, Sep 07, 2005 - 11:46:18 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Shall we turn to some stuff to 'brighten our moods' a bit ? | | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/my-stuff/welcome.htm | | | ============================================================================ | | 197) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 1:01:37 am | | gregy> | he he he....yes, obviously, there are NO sources that are REALLY, REALLY | reliable....just some that are sorta..... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 198) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 1:02:54 am | | gregy> | And, the list is applicable to 99.99 percent of the webizens...at one | time or another.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 199) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 2:41:04 am | | gregy> | Welp...this kinda lets us "bean eaters" off the hook..... | | http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7964 | http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7964&print=true | | | ============================================================================ | | 200) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 5:54:39 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://hurricane.lsu.edu/_in_the_news/1103tp.htm | | ============================================================================ | | 201) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 10:32:03 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 202) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:22:07 am | | Jake> | The Red Cross gets a "C" for spelling... which they need to insert in "acess | | | The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe p | decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We appla | | | Were the buses not used because the roads were blocked with private vehicles | | Some of the tapes recorded by tourists returning to the UK are being shown | on TV here. Two guys were denied access to their room during the hurricane | and had to stay in the corridor. This was sensible, as their window could've | been shattered. They were then forced to the Superdome and had a scary time, | having to form a corral around the women. It wasn't stated, but these were | young white people among the predominantly black and economically disadvanta | occupants of the Dome. | | They were phoning home and pleading to be got out of there (unaware that | nobody was moving) and a British Consul official said he was denied access | to check on the welfare of these people. | | ============================================================================ | | 203) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:24:37 am | | Jake> | We could deduce that the powers-that-be decided it wouldn't be safe for a | white guy in a suit to enter that place. | | ============================================================================ | | 204) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:31:26 am | | gregy> | I'm not sure about that "white guy in a suit"....and...I think those | kids were threatened by a small number of thugs/punks. If you look at | some of the news footage, you see poor, old, white folks mixed in with | the poor, old black folks. | ... | What I think is disgraceful is that the ordinary, normal folks (white | and black) didn't form their own ring around these "British Guests".. | ...I find that disturbing.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 205) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:33:20 am | | Jake> | The four major TV channels have all sent top reporters to paddle about in | small boats. Every day they rescue e.g. a the remains of a family with their | Mother lying dead on a bed. Today, one crew were accompanying the police | "encouraging" people to evacuate, and an elderly lady had a small pistol and | a knife about her person. Her chief concern was that she would have to leave | her dogs behind, which she'd hidden in the bathroom. When the cops' torches | glinted on her weapons: Kaboom, they flattened her. Just the pictures the | TV wanted. | | ============================================================================ | | 206) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:38:13 am | | gregy> | But, then, this whole thing is disturbing....and there are still a lot | of questions to ask, and answers to be had, or deduced. | ... | Re: Buses....no, that could NOT have been a reason. Because if anyone | had even seriously considered using them, they would have moved them to | higher ground, until they could have used them to evac, even if they | had to then cope with flooding (floating/choppering/trucking evacuees | to "bus-loading points"..... | ... | There is a LOT of confusing items and statements to sort out....but.. | that picture of the school buses parked useless in a flooded parking | lot "is worth a thousand words".....and clarifies, visualized for most | people the fact that over 350 city-owned transit buses (sorta like your | "London buses") were similarly parked and then disabled by the flooding. | | | ============================================================================ | | 207) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:38:45 am | | Jake> | "not sure about that "white guy in a suit"" | | -- Well, what about the first chopper water drops, and (almost unbelievable | to our eyes) the armaments carried by the rescue guys? | | I know there were white locals in the Superdome, but the tourists would, I t | have been all (or great majority) white and "tender meat", many of them havi | worked the summer at activity camps. | | | ============================================================================ | | 208) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:40:21 am | | gregy> | Hmmm...yep...city cops KNOW you cannot judge people by their looks... | ...just by their armament.... | ... | Did you actually see that on TV....??? | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 209) Thu, Sep | |u, Sepd, but these were |young white people among the predominantly black and economically disadvantag |occupants of the Dome. | |They were phoning home and pleading to be got out of there (unaware that |nobody was movin |----------------------------------------------------------------------------- INSERT | | ============================================================================ | | 207) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:38:45 am | | Jake> | "not sure about that "white guy in a suit"" | | -- Well, what about the first chopper water drops, and (almost unbelievable | to our eyes) the armaments carried by the rescue guys? | | I know there were white locals in the Superdome, but the tourists would, I t | have been all (or great majority) white and "tender meat", many of them havi | worked the summer at activity camps. | | | ============================================================================ | | 208) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:40:21 am | | gregy> | Hmmm...yep...city cops KNOW you cannot judge people by their looks... | ...just by their armament.... | ... | Did you actually see that on TV....??? | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 209) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:41:18 am | | Jake> | How near/accessible is higher ground? How likely their drivers were still | around? | | ============================================================================ | | 210) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:42:56 am | | Jake> | Did you actually see that on TV....??? | | The old lady with her dogs, pistol and knife? Yup. It was Channel 5, which | I don't normally watch, an hour ago. An "exclusive". | | | ============================================================================ | | 211) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:43:56 am | | gregy> | "First water drop???" was that the one where the people almost mobbed | the chopper...??? So that the crew had to hover about 10 feet off the | ground...while delivering their load...??? | ... | FWIW....there was a very great breakdown of order, within the whole | city....and...if you read tne anecdotes, news reports, and | over-the-years crime statistics, you'll see that it was sort of built | into the society of New Orleans for many years.. | | | ============================================================================ | | 212) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:49:55 am | | gregy> | ah...Re: "higher ground...drivers" Higher ground had to be some place | OUT of the NO bowl....where, I cannot say...must have some around there | somewhere........drivers....why, of course, they were all gone...no | one of them were there. Why...??? You'll have to ask the authorities | about that...city especially, but prolly state, too... | ... | While you're asking, why not ask them why they waited until less than | 24 hours before "storm-fall" to order the evacuation, and then only at | the urging of the President.... | ... | Oh, and maybe you could ask them why they did NOT follow their own | posted plan, which called for the evacuation of the "unables" (poor, | disabled, etc) using all those over 550 city-owned buses. I mean, they | had their plan posted right there on their website, at least up until | a couple days ago.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 213) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:50:28 am | | Jake> | Understood. And that would explain why the British official would be unsafe | visiting during the early days when peeps thought they were abandoned. | | Nothing much at www.five.tv -- must get a video capture card. | | | ============================================================================ | | 214) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:51:34 am | | gregy> | I'm also disturbed by that "TV Photo-Op" of the cops taking down that | elder lady. But, maybe they decided on prudence rather than being too | gentlemanly.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 215) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:54:37 am | | gregy> | NOTE - I'm not trying to be an apologist for all these things...I'm just | trying to answer your questions, give a possible explanation for what | you have seen and read. | ... | I have noticed that (which is so unexpected, but totally expectable) | you non-USAers have some misconceptions about what life is about here, | and how we conduct our politics, administration, and governance.. | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 216) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:54:50 am | | Jake> | I know that from this vantage point, Tele's concern didn't hit home. | The brother of a young Brit said he thought "Damn, I'm missing this" until | reports of the seriousness arrived on the Wednesday or Thursday following. | | | ============================================================================ | | 217) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:56:16 am | | gregy> | I think in the early days, people still thought they were NOT abandoned | ... | Wouldn't you think so...?? | ... | I mean, it would only gradually dawn on someone like me after several | days of worsening conditions.. | | | ============================================================================ | | 218) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:58:52 am | | gregy> | Ahh...well, I don't think you Brits have anything quite like our | hurricanes....and you have to actually go through a couple before you | really understand their magnitude....I know I didn't until I spent one | hurricane season at Biloxi, Mississippi.....and those two storms were | not even ranked as more than Cat 2-3.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 219) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 12:00:31 pm | | Jake> | The Brit boys in the hotel: I think they said they were 2 days in the | corridor then a day back in their room, where they videoed the incoming | water. So they got to the Dome on Weds or Thurs? | | As for the others, a day or two with no water would be enough? So the Brits | arrived among a mass of discontented people. | | | ============================================================================ | | 220) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 12:03:00 pm | | gregy> | For actual fact, most Americans have never been thru one, either...all | most of us can do is see it on TV/Movies and imagine the rest of it.. | ... | Sort of like combat...I know, it must get tiring hearing combat vets say | that there's no way you can truely understand combat, unless you've been | there.....that sounds so, sort of, elitist.... | ..but.. | It's true...there is no explaining the combinations of the different | elements of it into its overall horrifying, disgusting, maddening, | saddening whole... | .. | Same thing with a hurricane....and with an earthquake....been through | both and I can describe certain things about all of them..but cannot | communicate the whole... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 221) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 12:04:33 pm | | Jake> | There was a tornado strike ina built-up area a few weeks ago, with cars | thrown around and other damage, and there's going to be a TV prog soon | about England have a surprisingly high number of small but violent incidents | but yes, we have no inkling of the magnitude of these events. | | ============================================================================ | | 222) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 12:07:09 pm | | gregy> | Yeah...probably already disappointed, and, to top it off, strangers... | whereas the others (whites and blacks) had already spent a couple days | getting shaken into a "sense of community"...so to speak...yes..I can | see some things possibly happening...or, at least, being threatened. | .. | But...that should NEVER have been allowed to happen...there should have | been more, and more strict, control kept over that Superdome...and they | KNEW they were gonna have trouble there, because a couple years before, | they did the same thing (for a lesser storm) and had disorderliness and | lawlessness in there....so.....it was a total bollocks...in my opinion | ...from the get-go... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 223) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 12:09:07 pm | | gregy> | You Brits have tornadoes...??? | ... | I didn't think there was the weather patterns over there for them... | ... | We have them, occasionally, here in Montana....but...most of them are | further east and south of Montana.... | ... | Never been in/close to one of them....only seen the aftermath... | | | ============================================================================ | | 224) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 12:11:26 pm | | Jake> | I had assumed peeps would be camped on the pitch only, but the boys' video | panned around and showed the mass of people in the seats. That's one big | place. Was it built to be virtually bomb-proof? | | ============================================================================ | | 225) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 12:14:57 pm | URL | | Jake> | Birmingham (not Alabama) tornado. The TV footage was much more impressive | than the snaps on this page . | | I'm gone for a couple of hours. | | | ============================================================================ | | 226) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 12:15:10 pm | | gregy> | Also...there IS a lingering thread of racial distrust and dislike in the | American culture. It isn't really widely manifested, but it's there... | ..and...I can tell (from some of the recorded comments of the evacuees) | that there is/was some there...probably on all sides..... | ... | However....anyone who says they are not prone to an initial "gut | feeling" against "those others" has never ever met any of "those others" | ... | Which most of us recognize and work past....inspite of what you might | see on your TV....there is a great bit of goodwill among all the people | of this country. There's also occasional tensions,too.....hey ..that's | people living with other people.....and there's NO place I've been to | where it isn't the same... | | | ============================================================================ | | 227) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 12:17:05 pm | | gregy> | g'nite.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 228) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 12:21:05 pm | | gregy> | Gee Whiz, Jake....about 33 tornadoes in a normal year...???....he he he | I learn sumpin new every day..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 229) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 12:47:03 pm | | gregy> | "bombproof"...??? Superdome...??? Lord no...it's big, yes, but maybe | the picts will show you the pieces of the roof that peeled off under | the storms lashing winds....??? | ... | And...it's all kinda "interconnected"...I mean, I have the impression | that if the roof goes, the walls collapse, or sumpin like that...it's | all interlocked, and the roof holds the walls from falling in or out | or somewhere..... | ... | Big it is....but bombproof it ain't..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 230) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 4:22:30 pm | URL | | telemarketer> | ahh, I found gregy's blog :))))) | | We've certainly seen and heard plenty of black southerners the last week or | wondered why they insist on speaking with such a 'ghetto' mouth, among other | | this should get some interesting comments going here: | | http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs953a.html | | ============================================================================ | | 231) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 5:26:00 pm | URL | | telemarketer> | as should this: | | http://www.natvan.com/free-speech/fs0107a.html | | yep: | | a mexican radio station is 'Latino Proud' here in Houston.... | we've all heard about 'black power' | | but if a white person expresses concern, or pride, about his race, he/she is | | | ============================================================================ | | 232) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 5:30:43 pm | URL | | telemarketer> | re: .....don't know what hurricanes/tornadoes are like unless you've been th | | I've been through a few, I remember a couple as a young kid, I think it was | | in my 20's we had hurricane Alicia directly hit Houston. Actually that was p | down the road, hehe, "I brake for dumpsters", it was 'cool' because I got a | chopping up and haulin away trees. | | Tropical Storm Allison was a bitch though, although my house didn't flood, a | | ============================================================================ | | 233) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 5:35:42 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"skin became nearly white, and our hair and eyes became lighter. Whitenes | Nature, of course, is the great signifier of the North, of the creatures whi | developed in the harshness of the ice and snow." | | | Eskimos ain't white. | | Northern Asians ain't white. | | ============================================================================ | | 234) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 5:43:57 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"The average White has an IQ of 100, while the average Black has an IQ of | | | 100% false. | | Average IQ of both blacks and whites is 120 | | No differcnce what-so-ever between thier intelectual capabilities. | | | ============================================================================ | | 235) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 5:48:21 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"The dark-skinned, flat-nosed, kinky-haired baby represented a backward s | the European race, a backward step of hundreds of thousands of years, a | backward step into a chasm with no bottom save the endless darkness of death | may have been the redhead's life, it may have been her body, and it may have | been her baby--but it was my race that she was destroying. She had betrayed | every ancestor who had struggled for survival against overwhelming odds so t | their children and their grandchildren and their great-grandchildren, throug | ages could advance and prosper. Instead of further advancement, she had | chosen to become an evolutionary dead end. I fear that she and other unthink | White females like her may be responsible for the extinction of our race and | end--the literal end for all time--of everything we hold dear and sacred in | world." | | | Hmmmm, where have heard words of this nature spoken before ???? | | BBL | | ============================================================================ | | 236) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 6:10:29 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | There it is......... found it. | | "And from this Europe there have not only been settlements in other parts of | world, but intellectual [geistig] and cultural fertilization as well, a fact | anyone realizes who is willing to acknowledge the truth rather than deny it. | it was not England which cultivated the continent, but rather Anglo-Saxon an | Norman branches of the Germanic nation from our continent which moved to | the [British] island and made possible her development, which is certainly u | in history. In the same way, it was not America that discovered Europe, but | other way around. And all that which America did not get from Europe may | seem worthy of admiration to a Jewified mixed race, but Europe regards that | merely as symptomatic of decay in artistic and cultural life, the product of | Jewish or Negroid blood mixture. | | My Deputies! Men of the German Reichstag!" | _____________ | | Adolph Hitler | | ============================================================================ | | 237) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 8:40:04 pm | | telemarketer> | | hi glennmcc | | | | ============================================================================ | | 238) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 8:53:26 pm | | telemarketer> | A 60-page review of the scientific evidence, some based on state-of-the-art | are largely genetic. | The lead article in the June 2005 issue of Psychology, Public Policy and Law | evidence from around the world to contrast "a hereditarian model (50% geneti | | The paper, "Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Abilit | University of California at Berkeley, appeared with a positive commentary by | Yale University, Richard Nisbett of the University of Michigan, and Lisa Suz | | "Neither the existence nor the size of race differences in IQ are a matter o | consistently from the time of the massive World War I Army testing of 90 yea | in 2001. | | "Race differences show up by 3 years of age, even after matching on maternal | since this has not yet begun to exert an effect. That's why Jensen and I loo | | The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests t | Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians cent | Africa. | | Race Differences are Most Pronounced on Tests that Best Measure the General | Span test than on the less g loaded Forward Digit Span test. | | The Gene-Environment Architecture of IQ is the Same in all Races, and Race D | Asian twins, for example, show the heritability of IQ is 50% or higher in al | | Brain Size Differences. Studies using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) find | synapses and process information faster. Race differences in brain size are | Whites who average 5 cubic inches more than Blacks. | | Trans-Racial Adoption Studies. Race differences in IQ remain following adopt | Blacks score lower. The Minnesota Trans-Racial Adoption Study followed child | Mixed-Race children, 99; and Black children, 89. | | Racial Admixture Studies. Black children with lighter skin, for example, ave | 85, intermediate to the African 70 and White 100. | | IQ Scores of Blacks and Whites Regress toward the Averages of Their Race. Pa | more average children. Black and White children with parents of IQ 115 move | | Race Differences in Other "Life-History" Traits. East Asians and Blacks cons | personality, reproduction, and social organization. For example, Black child | | Race Differences and the Out-of-Africa theory of Human Origins. East Asian-W | and expanded northward. During prolonged winters there was evolutionary sele | shelter, and making clothes. | | Do Culture-Only Theories Explain the Data? Culture-only theories do not expl | interventions such as ending segregation, introducing school busing, or "Hea | | In their article, Rushton and Jensen also address some of the policy issues | individuals, not as members of groups. They emphasized that their paper pert | about the true nature of individual and group differences, genetics and evol | | Rushton and Jensen are well-known for research on racial differences in inte | Educational Review article. His later books Bias in Mental Tests (1980) and | are not biased against English speaking minorities and that Black-White-East | | | ============================================================================ | | 239) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 9:46:01 pm | | glennmcc> | Ever hear of the 'self-fulfilling prophecy' ? | | Main Entry: self-ful·fill·ing | Pronunciation: "self-fül-'fi-li[ng] | Function: adjective | 1: marked by or achieving self-fulfillment | 2: becoming real or true by virtue of having been | predicted or expected | | | If you _want_ to find a difference ... you _will_ find a difference. | | ============================================================================ | | 240) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 9:59:38 pm | | glennmcc> | Further evidence that the above story is FOS. | | "for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa." | | Did you know that the IQ level which is defined as being | 'mentally retarded' is ........ 70 | | IQ level 50-55 up to about 70 | | Mild Mental Retardation | About 85% of persons that are Mental Retarded fall into this group. | | Source ....... http://www.psyweb.com/Mdisord/menret.html | ___________ | | If you believe that story you posted... | Then you are saying that blacks here in the US are just barely above | the level of mental retardation and that those in sub-saharan africa | are at the level of mental retardation. | | This is total BULL SHIT... and you know it. | | | ============================================================================ | | 241) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 10:07:41 pm | | glennmcc> | http://ericec.org/digests/e637.html | | Most IQ tests are structured so that a score of 100 is considered average. | The determination, then, of what is considered to be a "significant | limitation in intellectual functioning" remains somewhat arbitrary, | the equivalent of a line in the sand. | | Prior to 1973, the recommended IQ cut-off score for mental retardation | was 85. In 1973, that was revised downwards to approximately 70, | where it remains today. | This is roughly the lowest scoring 2% of the population. | | | ============================================================================ | | 242) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 10:11:53 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Here's the truth about IQ | | ============================================================================ | | 243) Thu, Sep 08, 2005 - 11:09:44 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Shall we test it and see if you are black or white ? | | http://www.mensa.org/workout2.php | | My score..... | | Your score was 22 out of 30. That is a very good score, you | would have a good chance of passing the Mensa test. | | Please note that the Mensa Workout is NOT the official | Mensa test, and your score will not qualify or disqualify you | for membership. | | _________ | | BTW, | | I took the actaul supervised Mensa tests several years ago. | | (missed the Mensa requirement by 1 percentile) | | IQ 130 on the 1st test, 139 on the 2nd | | That's the 97th percentile. | | Admission into Mensa is at or above the 98th percentile. | | | ============================================================================ | | 244) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 4:39:14 am | | gregy> | tele....I have to conclude that you do not really believe the assertions | of that article you posted.......if that article is saying what I | (and you and Glenn and many more people) would take as its conclusions, | ..then we would have to believe that blacks are 15-30 points lower than | whites and 22-37 points lower than east asians.....meaning that we would | need to discount the evidence of our own eyes about the many exceedingly | intelligent blacks we know, and about the many exceedingly stupid whites | that we know...... | | | ============================================================================ | | 245) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 4:49:05 am | | gregy> | I have a thought-out refutation of IQ as being a valid measure for the | rating/ranking of people. I looked at all the evidence, before my eyes | and that I could read/study, and I concluded that IQ was not a valid | measure of human intelligence, and, furthermore, it was NOT a valid | measure for determining a person's worth. I reached this scientific | conclusion in the 5-6th grade, and have seen no evidence that has caused | me to modify or reject this conclusion since then. AND, BTW, many | scientific investigators have since come to agree with me and join in | my conclusion(s)...... | ... | BTW...on my first IQ tests (the very first, waaaaaay back there at the | start of grade school) I scored "unmeasureable".....what this means is | that, in my day, they never pumped their egos up to believe that they | could measure the "exceedingly bright"...so....at 141 they stopped | measuring and just called it "unmeasureable"...and denoted this by | putting a "141+" in the IQscore block on school documents. It took me | several years, and school grades, for the vague discomfort I had with | the whole concept to wriggle up to the top of my mind, whereupon I went | on my scientific quest to find out just "what was, and how valid" the | IQ testing/concept....I state my conclusions above. | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 246) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 4:58:37 am | | gregy> | One of the reasons for my unease with, and ultimate rejection of, the IQ | thingee was my family structure. | ... | My dad was at/about 130IQ...my mom was at/about 135IQ. They had | children: | My older sister - 138 | me - 141+ | my younger sister - 130-135 | | Now, the theory has always depended upon the darwinianism concept that | Glenn states above, so, you would have to conclude that only one of | us children was the offspring of our parents, since two of us were | superiour to our parents. That doesn't make much sense. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 247) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 5:04:03 am | | gregy> | Similar discordances in folks around me caused me to articulate my | arguments and reject the whole IQconcept. Shortly after that, I (in | Junior High - 7-8thgrades) discovered that the whole darwinianism | schtick was a fraud (what set me digging/studying was the | "horsey-horsey" sequence.......)..and I looked otherwhere for | explanations for the different "races"... | .... | I found a wealth of tools in PopulationGenitics (not even really known | by that name, in those days), although their conclusions did not jell, | either. | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 248) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 5:10:25 am | | gregy> | What held the key was the concept of "population bottlenecks" wherein | a overall population (e.g. the whole human population on the earth) is | pinched into pockets of people (say, 5-10 pockets for the whole human | population) and each pocket isolated from the other pockets, and the | humans in each pocket forced to keep on breeding with just the genes | that were originally in their pocket). | ... | The concept states that you would not have to do that more than three | times to arrive at our current situation of various "peoples, tongues, | tribes and nations" that we have on the face of the earth.. | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 249) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 5:12:45 am | | gregy> | This is NOT a darwinianism concept, since it involves a "loss" of | genitic information, NOT an accretion of more genetic information... | ...i.e. no improvement, but a devolution from the previous amount of | "full" genetic information originally available. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 250) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 5:21:04 am | | gregy> | These concepts seem to more closely describe the current state we have | within our (today) view, than do the "up from ape" "out of africa" | darwinianists' concepts and arguments. | .. | Coupled with the generally accepted "fact" (I quote "fact" since it is | NOT yet proveable, but has for over 100 years been recognized, studied, | and investigated, with increasing sureness of its factualness) that all | the current or previously known human languages have had a common | origin. | ... | The paleolinguistics and population-genetics studies both confirm and | reinforce each other. And, they strongly insist that: | 1. Humankind went through NOT MORE THAN three population bottlenecks | from their original population to arrive at today's situation. | 2. Humankind went through a major isolation dispersal during one of | those population bottlenecks. | | | ============================================================================ | | 251) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 5:24:35 am | | gregy> | Furthermore, the population would NOT have had to go through three | bottlenecks, to arrive at the situation we have today, IF one of those | bottlenecks (preferably the earliest) was an almost total extinction | bottleneck...i.e. humankind was wiped out down to only a few members. | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 252) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 5:30:53 am | | gregy> | The results of my investigation/study caused me to completely reject the | darwinianism framework, and look for a more "in accord with reality" | framework... | ... | My memory reminded me that there was an historical account that exactly | matched this description. | ... | An "almost extinction" bottleneck followed by a "tribe/language" | dispersal bottleneck. | ... | Noah's Flood, followed by the occurrances at the Tower of Babel... | ... | Continued investigation, over my continued 50+ years of life since then, | have further reinforced the correctness of this view, and have offered | NO refuting evidence toward this view... | ... | So...I'm sure there are no such things as "races".....rather, we have | "peoples and tongues, tribes and nations on the face of the whole earth" | which all came from a common origin...... | "In the beginning......GOD...."..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 253) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 5:40:53 am | | gregy> | As for "how to measure" a person's worth...??? | ... | Well, we could discuss THAT some other time....since it's an exceeding | controversal subject, especially nowadays, what with abortion, cloning, | embryo-experimentation, baby-parts-selling, and killing-the-disabled | which are happening all around us.. | | | ============================================================================ | | 254) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 9:30:26 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=110007230 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 255) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 10:55:52 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.washingtohttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/200 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 256) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 10:56:53 am | URL | | gregy> | oops...finger twitch... | | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/08/AR2005090801 | | | ============================================================================ | | 257) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 11:05:18 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.townhall.com/columnists/tonysnow/printTS20050909.shtml | | | | ============================================================================ | | 258) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 11:16:29 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/national/nationalspecial/09military.html?e | | | | ============================================================================ | | 259) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 12:19:52 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/9/105455.shtml | | | ============================================================================ | | 260) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 12:28:34 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://washtimes.com/upi/20050908-112433-4907r.htm | | | ============================================================================ | | 261) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 5:27:33 pm | | glennmcc> | No emails from the list in many houirs now... not even my own. | | My last 3 messages sent to arachne4dos at coollist.com have vanished :( | | This is the last one to come-through....... | | Received: from [67.98.68.98] (helo=mtx.coollist.com) | for glennmcc@cisnet.com; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 02:27:37 -0400 | To: "Arachne4DOS" | From: "Peter Lawrence" | Reply-To: arachne4dos@coollist.com | Subject: [a4dos-list] Re:Re: [OT] To boldly go - - - | | | | ============================================================================ | | 262) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 5:28:21 pm | | glennmcc> | houirs == hours | | | | ============================================================================ | | 263) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 6:26:24 pm | | gregy> | Glenn...I don't know...I just downloaded today's batch...the last on | was from Peter, about "where people are coming from"...or sumsuch.. | .. | | | ============================================================================ | | 264) Fri, Sep 09, 2005 - 9:24:17 pm | | glennmcc> | Yep... that's the last one I got too. | | | 2:27 am my time... 12:27 am your time. | | I wonder, in what timezone is the Coollist server located ? | | | ============================================================================ | | 265) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 5:16:27 am | | gregy> | I don't know the Coollist server timezone, but I do know the list is | definitely not working, re: our last received messages, ...AND I know | their main website is still up...I just went there to check, and it | all looks the same... | .. | | | ============================================================================ | | 266) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 5:18:02 am | | gregy> | Maybe they'll get it fixed...since they seem to be still around...what | I plan to do is send a "Test" message every once in a while to see it | they get it back up.. | .. | | | ============================================================================ | | 267) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 5:53:18 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007238 | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 268) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 6:17:29 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20050908-090641-5247r.htm | http://www.washtimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20050908-090641-5247r | | | ============================================================================ | | 269) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 8:12:20 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=8978 | | | ============================================================================ | | 270) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 8:56:55 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-surge9sep09,1,7901524.s | http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-surge9sep09,1,7901524.s | | | | ============================================================================ | | 271) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 9:08:53 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://tampatrib.com/nationworldnews/MGB7UD1DFDE.html | | | ============================================================================ | | 272) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 9:12:44 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.washtimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20050909-113107-3180r | | | ============================================================================ | | 273) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 6:41:01 pm | | glennmcc> | | From: postmaster@cisnet.com | To: glennmcc@cisnet.com | Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:12:21 -0400 | Subject:Message delayed (arachne4dos@coollist.com) | | ============================================================================ | | Your message has been delayed and is still awaiting delivery | to the following recipient(s): | | arachne4dos@coollist.com | Message delayed | 451 qq trouble creating files in queue (#4.3.0) | | Sent: (message data) | Received:451 qq trouble creating files in queue (#4.3.0) | | | ============================================================================ | Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.cisnet.com | Received-From-MTA: dns; cisnet.com | (dialup-4.224.207.172.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net | [4.224.207.172]) | Arrival-Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:33:26 -0400 | | Final-Recipient: rfc822; arachne4dos@coollist.com | Action: delayed | Status: 4.0.0 (Persistent transient failure - no additional status informati | available) | Remote-MTA: dns; a.mx.coollist.com | Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 451 qq trouble creating files in queue (#4.3.0) | | | ============================================================================ | Received: from cisnet.com (dialup-4.224.207.172.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net | [4.224.207.172]) by mail.cisnet.com | (Vircom SMTPRS 4.5.186) with ESMTP id ; | Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:33:26 -0400 | Message-ID: | From: "Glenn McCorkle" | Organization: Arachne Fan Club | Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:33:44 -0500 | X-Mailer: Arachne v1.87;UE09 | To: "Peters" | Reply-To: glennmcc@cisnet.com | CC: arachne4dos@coollist.com | Subject: Re: http://www.rozhlas.cz/leonardo/portal/ | MIME-Version: 1.0 | Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 | Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit | | | ============================================================================ | | | ============================================================================ | | 274) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 6:46:12 pm | | glennmcc> | Just now also sent the above to the 'support team' via | | http://www.coollist.com/contact/contactform.cgi | | This is the response from their computer.... | | Your query has been successfully sent to the Coollist Support Team. | We will get back to you as soon as possible. | | __________________________ | | Now we'll see if any humans respond. | | ============================================================================ | | 275) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 7:28:02 pm | | glennmcc> | Now it failed all-together :(( | | | From: postmaster@cisnet.com | To: glennmcc@cisnet.com | Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:43:55 -0400 | Subject:Delivery failure (arachne4dos@coollist.com) | | ============================================================================ | | Your message has encountered delivery problems | to the following recipient(s): | | arachne4dos@coollist.com | Delivery failed | 451 qq trouble creating files in queue (#4.3.0) | | Failed to deliver to domain coollist.com after 111 tries. | Last error was: | Sent: (message data) | Received:451 qq trouble creating files in queue (#4.3.0) | | | ============================================================================ | | ============================================================================ | | 276) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 7:29:15 pm | | glennmcc> | IMO, | | 111 failed tries == 'dead server' | | | ============================================================================ | | 277) Sat, Sep 10, 2005 - 7:32:13 pm | | glennmcc> | An since the problem is....... | | Received:451 qq trouble creating files in queue (#4.3.0) | | | It looks like all messages sent since it 'went down' | will have disappeared forever :(( | | | ============================================================================ | | 278) Sun, Sep 11, 2005 - 4:13:27 am | | Jake> | Maybe they exceeded the Tiscali T&Cs? | | Too early to tell, but there's been a massive fall-off in the undeliverable | returned spam, spoofing my address. This arrives cos Freeserve will accept | anything@my-address.freeserve.co.uk as being for my-address.freeserve.co.uk | | So, I wonder if the peeps behind coollists were using/selling addresses for | spamming, and hence got the chop? | | ============================================================================ | | 279) Sun, Sep 11, 2005 - 4:46:41 am | | Jake> | Nope, spoofed mail still a arriving :-( | | | ============================================================================ | | 280) Sun, Sep 11, 2005 - 3:33:17 pm | | gregy> | Well, their HTTP site is still up, so it's the mailserver(s)....has | anyone queried L.D. or mel....??? | ... | I suspect it may be a temporary server problem, and will be straightened | out sooner-or-later. | .. | Since, Glenn got an auto-reply from their "support-team"...it doesn't | look like an abandoned site, yet... | | | ============================================================================ | | 281) Sun, Sep 11, 2005 - 3:50:28 pm | | glennmcc> | Since I hve never recieved any human replies in the (what?... 2 years?), | that arachne4dos@coollist.com has existed..... | | IMO, | | Never a Human-reply == not abandoned | | Never anything but Auto-reply == abandoned | | ============================================================================ | | 282) Sun, Sep 11, 2005 - 3:52:12 pm | | glennmcc> | opps.... | | Never a Human-reply == not abandoned | | Make that...... | | If we had Ever recieved a Human-reply == not abandoned | | | | ============================================================================ | | 283) Sun, Sep 11, 2005 - 6:16:17 pm | | gregy> | Well...maybe....I can conceive of everything being on "auto-pilot" for | over two years, now....but...I still think there's someONE still | involved with coollist....but....time will tell..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 284) Sun, Sep 11, 2005 - 6:31:04 pm | | glennmcc> | Try 3 and a half years... not just 2 | | http://www.coollist.com/ | | HTTP/1.1 200 OK | Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:29:31 GMT | Server: Apache/1.3.28 (Unix) | Last-Modified: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:16:15 GMT | | | ============================================================================ | | 285) Sun, Sep 11, 2005 - 6:59:37 pm | | gregy> | eewwwww....now THAT causes me to have a sinking feeling.... | .. | I mean, last modified 2002...?? hmmm...yes...Linux/Apache are very | stable, and "if it ain't broke don't fix it"...but...well..hmmmmm.. | ... | only time will tell..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 286) Mon, Sep 12, 2005 - 7:22:38 am | | Jake> | The local "upper school" (for 14 - 18 age range) is much vaunted for being | shackled to M$. One of their online PCs has sent me 50 Mytob infected mails | today, so I had the great pleasure of giving them a call. If it goes on much | longer I might call the local paper... | | ============================================================================ | | 287) Mon, Sep 12, 2005 - 10:02:40 am | | glennmcc> | Only 50 ???? | | That's nothing complian about. | | I have been getting 50 to 100 per day every day for the last 2 months | of several varients of Mytob, MyDoom and Surila | | 19 more in this 1st-run of Email today. | | Most likely by the end of the day today, 20 30 or perhaps 50 more. | | ============================================================================ | | 288) Mon, Sep 12, 2005 - 10:10:03 am | | glennmcc> | Just now got another one :( | | | ============================================================================ | | 289) Mon, Sep 12, 2005 - 10:19:46 am | | gregy> | I never even bother, anymore, to download and check out which virus, or | varient thereof, I'm getting....I just hit 'em all with the "X" and | DELETE.... | ... | I sorta vaguely total them at about 50 in my one account...and, the | other, spam-free account, is still spam-free... | | | ============================================================================ | | 290) Mon, Sep 12, 2005 - 1:56:16 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.dailyhowler.com/ | | | ============================================================================ | | 291) Mon, Sep 12, 2005 - 2:32:29 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB112649152397237699-bZXwW_GdI2sWn3d | | | | ============================================================================ | | 292) Mon, Sep 12, 2005 - 2:36:30 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05254/568876.stm | | | ============================================================================ | | 293) Mon, Sep 12, 2005 - 2:58:43 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/lopez/lopez20050912111 | | | ============================================================================ | | 294) Mon, Sep 12, 2005 - 5:14:39 pm | | Jake> | The National Review needs to get off its high horse and lighten up. | (Is the "National" bit self-appointed?) | | Clarkson is _the_ spokesman for yob culture. The Sun "newspaper" is one of | the last refuges of the politically incorrect. It is not meant for World | consumption, and has the same sort of entrenched views you might find | expressed on Glenn's board (not by Glenn ) | | I agree that such opinions are totally insensitive, no doubt untrue etc., | but they are not meant for US consumption! And any humour and prejudice | has to have some basis, and from the standpoint of someone at this remove, | I still don't see how troops can efficiently do anything other than kill | when equipped with armaments and helmets. I don't believe UK service personn | are even allowed to travel on public transport in uniform. | | Right, so from here I can take any Clarkson piece with a huge pinch of salt. | What I find disturbing about the natreview piece is the call to sanction him | a witch-hunt if you will. | | | ============================================================================ | | 295) Mon, Sep 12, 2005 - 5:48:36 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"I still don't see how troops can efficiently do anything other than kill | when equipped with armaments and helmets." | | | My drill Srgnt. in US Army basic training (1978), said it best. | | "We have but one purpose here. | We are here to teach you how to kill people." | | ============================================================================ | | 296) Mon, Sep 12, 2005 - 6:14:51 pm | | glennmcc> | BTW, | | 12 more emails infected with Surila arived in the 6 hrs between my last | post and when I got home from work to D/L mail for the 1st time this | evening. | | That makes 32 so-far today. | | ============================================================================ | | 297) Tue, Sep 13, 2005 - 4:08:06 am | | Jake> | My spam tsunami from undeliverable spoofed mails shows increased vigour. | | 498 of the blighters in two hours :-( | | Coollist was the only genuine mail regularly received there, so it's prolly | time to wave bye-bye to that 7-yr-old account. | | | ============================================================================ | | 298) Tue, Sep 13, 2005 - 9:41:43 am | | gregy> | Well, from the looks of coollist's current non-performance, I'd say that | we prolly have no choice...we can say bye-bye to the list, and can | abandon (if we so choose) any accounts that received it... | ... | However....my "spam-account" still gets some expected "real" email, so | I'll probably keep it.. | | | ============================================================================ | | 299) Tue, Sep 13, 2005 - 9:51:19 am | | gregy> | Yes, kill, kill, kill.......however...the National Guard, at | least since I joined it in 1978, has continuous training on civil-duty | type tasks (disaster relief, flood/snow relief, fire-fighting, martial | law, etc). AND, any time those NG troops are deployed, they are tasked | by their immediate commanders with what they are going to do, and the | equipment they must take with them to do the job. | ... | In the case of the NG troops in New Orleans....the ones ON THE SCENE, | (the "first" ones on site) were Lousiania NG troops and they were, must | have been, order to wear their whole lite combat gear (includes helmets, | LoadBearingEquipment, personal weapons, and any ammunition authorized). | ... | Again, any deficiencies/excesses exhibited by them was due SOLEY to | their STATE authorities, not any other states' authorities, and NOT IN | ANY WAY, the federal authorities. | ... | KEEP THIS CLEARLY IN MIND, whenever you hear/read anything coming from | the so-called MainStreamMedia (many of whom are (1) totally clueless as | to what the controlling law says, or (2) deliberately distorting their | knowledge of the applicable law). | ... | FirstResponders (including NG troops) are ALL controlled/directed by the | State and Local authorities...NOT, IN ANY MANNER, by federal | authorities. | | | ============================================================================ | | 300) Tue, Sep 13, 2005 - 9:55:17 am | | gregy> | And, yes, Jake...we (most of us) realize that "those" foreign aritcles | are from the fringes....however...we have found here, that "those fringe | viewpoints" are very probably going to be adopted by our "GREAT" Main | LeftStreamMedia, if they thing they can get away with it...therefore, | the NationalReview is quite right (and they're not the only ones doing | this) to "knock back" this junk while it's still raising its ugle head. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 301) Tue, Sep 13, 2005 - 11:23:42 am | | Jake> | Clarkson and The Sun are certainly not on the fringe: they are right smack | in the middle of British "culture". Everybody here knows them (Clarkson | mainly for TV shows). It would be laughable (in British eyes) for anyone | to quote anything from The Sun seriously, unless the point is to make a | critique of Britain or The Sun itself. | | There was a radio phone-in on how British views of the US have been altered | by recent events: I can supply the audio file in RM or MP3 formats, if wante | | ============================================================================ | | 302) Tue, Sep 13, 2005 - 11:54:57 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.sluggerotoole.com/archives/2005/09/ill_wind_may_no.php | | | ============================================================================ | | 303) Tue, Sep 13, 2005 - 11:56:36 am | | gregy> | Jake...nah, we can read....the British "visible, up-front" views of the | US are pretty well displayed by the MainLeftStreamMedia...both here | and abroad... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 304) Tue, Sep 13, 2005 - 10:12:16 pm | | gregy> | ah...Jake...are condolences in order...??? I mean, for that power grab | the EU just did against British soverignty...?? | | | ============================================================================ | | 305) Wed, Sep 14, 2005 - 1:25:20 am | | Jake> | The only news at the moment is of people queueing for "gas", rationed to | as little as a gallon each, and of the win against the Ozzies in cricket | which, thanks to the info source I'm permanently hooked to, allowed me to | follow up at long last on old family tales and find that my Gt-Grandfather's | younger brother _did_ captain England, also against the Aussies, in 1928/9. | | ============================================================================ | | 306) Wed, Sep 14, 2005 - 12:20:57 pm | | gregy> | well...congrats to your Great Uncle.......did they win...??? | ... | Now, I was asking about the recent (yesterday?) ruling by the EU Court | that the EU Parliment's rules/laws were manditorily applicable for all | British citizens within Britain or worldwide.... | ... | I was wondering how that struck you, and/or your compatriots...??? | | | | ============================================================================ | | 307) Wed, Sep 14, 2005 - 1:11:47 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/14/130655.shtml | | Hurricane DVD | Meant For New Orleans Sat On Shelf | http://www.newsmax.com/ | Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:02:03 | ____________________________________________ | | | With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff | | For the story behind the story... | | Wednesday, Sept. 14, 2005 1:03 p.m. EDT | | Hurricane DVD Meant For New Orleans | Sat On Shelf | | Community leaders in New Orleans | prepared a DVD instructing residents | about evacuating before a hurricane – | but 70,000 of the DVDs were still | sitting on warehouse shelves in Los | Angeles when Katrina struck. | | | | The stark message on the DVD: Save | yourself, and help your neighbors if | you can. | | Story Continues Below | | | | "Don’t wait for the city, don’t wait | for the state, don’t wait for the Red | Cross,” Rev. Marshall Truehill warns | on the DVD. | | The public service program on the DVD, | titled "Preparing for the Big One,” | was aimed at the one-quarter of the | city’s population that did not own a | vehicle or have available | transportation out of town if an | evacuation was ordered, the Los | Angeles Times reports. | | "A strategy was developed. The tapes | were done. Commercials were prepared,” | said Ann Duplessis, the democratic | state senator who represents the Lower | 9th Ward, home to many of the city’s | poor. But the hurricane "just came too | fast.” | Š | The city had arranged to have the DVD | produced by Total Community Action. If | it had been ready on time, it would | have been distributed through churches | in New Orleans. | | But it wasn’t until 11:00 a.m. on | August 28, about 18 hours before | Katrina made landfall, that most | residents first heard about "Preparing | for the Big One.” | | That's when Truehill, pastor of the | city’s First Baptist Church, appeared | on TV in a taped segment to tell | viewers that the DVD was coming soon. | | A copy of the DVD, reviewed by the | Times, shows Truehill telling viewers: | "It’s your personal responsibility” to | escape before a hurricane. | | Mayor C. Ray Nagin says: "Everybody | needs to have their own plans. Check | with your neighbors, check with your | relatives.” | | The DVD also contains advice on | clearing storm drains, packing an | evacuation kit and keeping pets safe. | | But for residents without | transportation, the DVD provides | little beyond the advice to find a | ride with someone. | | As far back as September 2002, FEMA | had met with city and church leaders | to discuss the problem of evacuating | people who lacked transportation. | | But problems arose. Among them was a | concern that residents who gave their | neighbors a lift out of the city could | face legal liability if something went | wrong, according to the Times. | | Legislation was introduced last year | to release drivers from liability in | the event of a hurricane. But it was | opposed in the Louisiana House by | members who were concerned that | drunken drivers could escape | responsibility for an accident if they | were transporting evacuees. Š | | | ============================================================================ | | 308) Wed, Sep 14, 2005 - 8:23:14 pm | | neolibgreen> | http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0914-05.htm | | ============================================================================ | | 309) Wed, Sep 14, 2005 - 8:29:49 pm | | gregy> | neolibgreen....hmmm...that commondreams shows NOTHING on its page, but | blank, white slate....am we s'posed to write sumpin on thar...??? | ... | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 310) Wed, Sep 14, 2005 - 8:31:20 pm | | gregy> | and...they're typical proggy-libs...trying to impress everyone with HOW | SHARP WE ARE...LOOK AT OUR JS-RIDDEN PAGE...IF YOU DON'T RUN THE LATEST | AND GREATEST....WHY..YOU'RE JUST A MORONIC NEO-CON LOWLIFE... | | | ============================================================================ | | 311) Wed, Sep 14, 2005 - 8:47:06 pm | | gregy> | However...was that proggy-lib link you posted to a story about Nutcake | Farrakan saying the New Orleans levees were "blown up"....??? | ...he he he...yeah...prolly was.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 312) Wed, Sep 14, 2005 - 10:18:57 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/4005_0_2_0_C/ | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 313) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 2:13:06 am | URL | | Jake> | Printable version of commondreams.org: "Power Crews Diverted: Restoring Pipe | | I saw the "Lawyers Suing Over Global Warming" headline at the BBC but though | it would be stirring a hornet's nest if I mentioned both in a single sentenc | | The Beeb say they've got a stream of the Galloway vs Hitchen "prizefight" | from last night. | | ============================================================================ | | 314) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 2:14:59 am | | Jake> | Slugging it out in the Grapple in the Apple | | DAMIEN HENDERSON September 15 2005 | | IT was billed as the "Grapple in the Apple" and, for a New York audience now | The Respect MP's opponent in a live debate last night was Christopher Hitche | The pair famously sparred in May, when Mr Galloway dismissed his former left | badly need another drink." | Though the debate was ostensibly about the 2003 Gulf war, personal animosity | Hitchens turned on his rival, telling him he was a "disgrace" and "beneath c | Unshaken, Mr Galloway replied that Mr Hitchens was "slobbering" over him. He | opposed the first Gulf war. | "What Mr Hitchens has done is unique in natural history, the first ever meta | slug does leave behind it is a trail of slime." | In the run-up to the event, insults pertaining to Mr Hitchen's weight, alleg | of his upcoming opponent: "If he turns up drunk he'll be a pushover. If he t | | ============================================================================ | | 315) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 2:21:10 am | | Jake> | BTW, "English public school" means a private school, usually for boarders. | (They were originally set up by charitable gifts for the boys of a town or | village, back in the days when the only formal education was provided by | tutors for those who could afford it and thought it worthwhile. 150 years | ago in this village, the girls were only thought good enough for domestic | duties, so the schoolteacher ran his household with free labour "in training | | | ============================================================================ | | 316) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 2:30:22 am | URL | | Jake> | My Gt-Gt-whatever Uncle, in cricket garb. | | He was made cricketer of the year by Wisden's Almanack (the Bible of the gam | | JOHN CORNISH WHITE, the leading amateur slow bowler of the day, was | born at Holford, near Taunton on February 19, 1891. Educated at | Taunton School, he, as a boy, enjoyed the advantage of being coached | by the late E. J. Tyler, and from that Somerset professional he | considers he learned much of what he knows about bowling. He has been | a regular member of the Somerset eleven since 1913 and captain of the | side during the past two years and never once since the war has he | failed to take a hundred wickets during the season. In addition to | possessing much power of spinning the ball and great command of length, | White uses his brains as much as any bowler of the present time. Given | a wicket at all tricky, he spins the ball and, pitching on the leg | stump to go across, never gives the batsman any peace. His faster ball | on the bad wicket is well disguised, for he makes no difference in the | pace of his run up to the wicket. On the hard wicket which gives the | bowler no help, White depends mostly on flight, a slight swerve in the | air, and a slow ball well outside the off-stump to which is imparted | real finger-spin. With a certain wind to help him, White swerves late | and makes the ball dip. With any wind against him, he will make the | ball swerve and he is one of the few bowlers who can control the swerve | so that the ball does not do too much. A most unselfish cricketer, White, | who has captained Somerset extremely well, will give the star bowlers | the end they prefer while he keeps the batsman unhappy at the other | wicket. The value of White in Australia as a rest bowler will never | perhaps be realised except by those who have played in the recent Test | matches: whenever there has been a wicket, to use, and he has had his | chance, he has taken it. As a number 9 bat, even on a very strong side, | he is courageous and on a weak side may turn round a game by good hitting. | As a ground field he is fair; as a catcher he is very good for he never | misses an easy catch and brings off some good ones. | | ======== | | Did he win, as captain? | | Ahem: | | In his first test as captain, in 1928/9 he stood in for Percy Chapman, | lost the test and ended England's then-record-equally run of seven | consecutive test victories. In the other three tests, he won once and | drew twice. | | | Anyone ever called Percy in the USA? More traditional names are popular | again in the UK, but only the straightforward type that's not quaint. | | ============================================================================ | | 317) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 11:51:33 am | | gregy> | The galloway knockdown....I'll get the complete transcript....I know | several places that will have it posted.. | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 318) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 11:55:38 am | | gregy> | Yeah...we have a problem with suing-environ-nutcase-lieyers here in US. | ..I think we're in the process of knocking them back....at least we've | gotten a start on them. | ... | And, the most of Yanks (ordinary folks) are doing an "eye roll" and | muttering, "Only in California."......'cause we all recognize that THAT | is where most of our nut-cake-ideas and processes are poluting the rest | of the country from. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 319) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 12:02:19 pm | | gregy> | Yeah, Jake....that "Power Crews, etc" shows up a VERY great problem we | have let the environ-bationists get us into... | ... | We've let them shutdown any expansion of existing refineries, and stop | the building of additional refineries, and the shutdown or some existing | refineries, especially in "environ-bation-ville-northeast"...so, there | is little-to-no refinery capacity in the liberal havens in the New | England, northeast area. And..those are heavily populated areas...and | ...failure of that major pipeline WOULD constitute a major national | failure, and "energy emergency" in the northeast. So...they barely | scrapped by from having an either/or disaster, there, it looks like. | ... | | ============================================================================ | | 320) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 12:08:21 pm | | gregy> | Well, I'll bet it was a good game, though...sounds like your GGGUncle | was a "stayer"...persistent.... | ... | And, yes, have some family-names Percy, and have had some FirstName | Percys, also....don't think it is too common nowadays.. | | | ============================================================================ | | 321) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 12:11:33 pm | | gregy> | And, your GGGGUncle looks a presentable chap...or...as far as I can see, | he's a representative example of what a Yank would expect a British | Cricketeer to look like...... | .. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 322) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 12:41:03 pm | URL | | gregy> | Ah.. the truth and admissions are now starting to come out: | | http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/15/123648.shtml | | | | ============================================================================ | | 323) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 1:59:51 pm | | gregy> | Keep your eyes opened for "MRGO" "Levee Board" "Corp of Engineers" | and any related terms. | ... | It's now starting to percolate upward into the MainLeftStreamMedia.. | .. | And...it is looking even MORE rotten than I projected in my very first | post during/immediately-after the Katrina disaster... | | | ============================================================================ | | 324) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 4:33:20 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | re:"...that commondreams shows NOTHING on its page, but blank, white slate.. | | IgnoreJS should only be enabled in those situations where a page will not di | correctly and you suspect that the problem might be either invalid or incorr | commented JS. At all other times, IgnoreJS should be left disabled. | ____________________________________________________ | | http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0914-05.htm | | is one of those situations I was refering to. >g> | | | ============================================================================ | | 325) Thu, Sep 15, 2005 - 7:53:41 pm | | gregy> | You know, Glenn...??? That's just one of those times, when you don't | even think.......I never even thought of doing that.... | ... | Even though I do use that variable quite often....but...not that time | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 326) Fri, Sep 16, 2005 - 2:26:04 pm | | gregy> | test | | ============================================================================ | | 327) Fri, Sep 16, 2005 - 2:29:08 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/ma20050916.shtml | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 328) Fri, Sep 16, 2005 - 2:59:38 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4820&search=Jonathan | | | | ============================================================================ | | 329) Fri, Sep 16, 2005 - 3:02:14 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-9_15_05_LD.html | | | ============================================================================ | | 330) Fri, Sep 16, 2005 - 3:28:03 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/lowry/lowry20050916132 | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 331) Fri, Sep 16, 2005 - 3:36:11 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/comment/massie20050916 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 332) Fri, Sep 16, 2005 - 5:25:40 pm | | ray> | Hi, just checking up on the gossip :-) | | BTW, speaking of cricket, what is/are 'the ashes' ? | | | ============================================================================ | | 333) Fri, Sep 16, 2005 - 7:25:48 pm | | gregy> | The remains of England's hopes in the tests....??? | ... | .. | (just fooling, Jake.........) | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 334) Sat, Sep 17, 2005 - 3:45:37 am | URL | | Jake> | More than you want to know, at the ... | | It was announced, with relish, on the news that commemorative postage stamps | will be produced, including one of 68 pence value, which is the correct rate | for ordinary letters sent to... | | ... Australia | | ============================================================================ | | 335) Sat, Sep 17, 2005 - 2:41:26 pm | | gregy> | Well, that's nice...your lot has finally reclaimed its Ashes... | ... | as the Aussies would say, "Good on ya, ya boory pomies..."..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 336) Sat, Sep 17, 2005 - 2:42:01 pm | | gregy> | ooops....should have been, "...bloory pomies..." or "poms".... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 337) Sat, Sep 17, 2005 - 5:06:05 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-9_15_05_LD.html | | | | ============================================================================ | | 338) Mon, Sep 19, 2005 - 2:32:39 pm | URL | | gregy> | This is TOOOOO good...!!!!......, | | http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/19/91954.shtml | | | ============================================================================ | | 339) Mon, Sep 19, 2005 - 4:40:57 pm | | is_it_true_???> | Who is this 'well informed source' ??? | | | ============================================================================ | | 340) Mon, Sep 19, 2005 - 7:58:12 pm | | Totally_Reliable_Well_Informed_Source> | I am ME. | | It_is_true. Take it to the bank. | | | ============================================================================ | | 341) Tue, Sep 20, 2005 - 4:21:53 pm | | I_don\'t_trust_banks> | | | ============================================================================ | | 342) Tue, Sep 20, 2005 - 6:41:31 pm | | Neither_do_I_but_I_Trust_my_CreditUnion> | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 343) Tue, Sep 20, 2005 - 10:53:56 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.techcentralstation.com/091605F.html | | | | ============================================================================ | | 344) Wed, Sep 21, 2005 - 12:38:01 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/2886 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 345) Wed, Sep 21, 2005 - 7:48:08 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/20/AR2005092001 | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 346) Wed, Sep 21, 2005 - 11:14:27 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/13/Worldandnation/Storm_frenzy_is_not_a.shtml | http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/img/climate/severeweather/2hur2140.gif | | | | ============================================================================ | | 347) Wed, Sep 21, 2005 - 11:16:27 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/Deadliest_Costliest.shtml | | | | ============================================================================ | | 348) Thu, Sep 22, 2005 - 3:32:08 am | URL | | gregy> | This thing is doing a right-hook as it comes ashore, just like Katrina | did... | | http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT18/refresh/AL1805W5+gif/025617W_sm. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 349) Thu, Sep 22, 2005 - 3:45:58 am | URL | | gregy> | And, the satelite picture....ain't purty...!!! | | http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/PS/TROP/DATA/RT/FLOAT/WV/20.jpg | | | ============================================================================ | | 350) Thu, Sep 22, 2005 - 4:02:34 am | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.lucianne.com/routine/images/09-22-05.jpg | | | ============================================================================ | | 351) Sun, Sep 25, 2005 - 4:40:32 pm | URL | | gregy> | This one's for Glenn.....and me....... | | http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/25/131154.shtml | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 352) Sun, Sep 25, 2005 - 5:41:39 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Thanks Gregy, | | Here it is with all of the adverts removed. | | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/fewer.txt | | | ============================================================================ | | 353) Sun, Sep 25, 2005 - 5:47:54 pm | URL | | gregy> | Another for Glenn....and me.... | | http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46493 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 354) Sun, Sep 25, 2005 - 5:49:16 pm | URL | | gregy> | Yeah..Glenn...that looks much nicer.... | ... | However, I NEVER notice the ads........because, of course, I'm | cruising with Arachne with images OFF..... | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 355) Tue, Sep 27, 2005 - 8:04:31 pm | URL | | gregy> | So much for the reliability and credibility of our so-called | "MainStreamMedia"...... | | http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050927/ap_on_re_us/katrina_urban_rumors_hk2 | | | ============================================================================ | | 356) Tue, Sep 27, 2005 - 8:36:59 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050928/ap_on_re_us/rita_new_orleans_hk2 | | | ============================================================================ | | 357) Tue, Sep 27, 2005 - 8:56:48 pm | URL | | gregy> | | http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46537 | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 358) Wed, Sep 28, 2005 - 5:17:41 am | URL | | chary> | “CIGARETTE SMOKING IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH” | | We know already that smoking habit is bad to our health right? So why we con | hard to quit so here’s I could offer to you “NOSMOQ” product. If you really | simply click this link: http://partnerclicks.net/click.php?APID=2&affID=00 | | Or if you have more questions regarding our product just mail me at dairycha | | Call Tel. #: 63-32-412-4084 | Internet phone: 0303-4710-7565 | Our Address in Japan is: | Kawai Bldg 6F, 1-32-6, Higashi-Ikebukuro, Toshima-ku, Tokyo, Japan 170-0013 | | What you are waiting for ORDER NOW!!! | | | Hope you enjoy our product: NosmoQ | | | Thank you and Goodluck!!! | | ============================================================================ | | 359) Wed, Sep 28, 2005 - 7:34:20 pm | | glennmcc> | We've been SPAMed again :( | | ============================================================================ | | 360) Sat, Oct 01, 2005 - 5:05:15 pm | URL | | | Here's their image directory, can anyone dig deeper? | | | ============================================================================ | | 361) Sat, Oct 01, 2005 - 5:08:50 pm | URL | | | www.partnerclicks.net has been added to my hosts file.Their url and all dns | Also, #hackers on irc has become interested in them. :-) | | ============================================================================ | | 362) Sat, Oct 01, 2005 - 5:10:59 pm | URL | | | All their database are belong to them. | | ============================================================================ | | 363) Sat, Oct 01, 2005 - 5:14:03 pm | URL | | | sorry, #spamhackers | and "them"==#spamhackers. | :-) | | | ============================================================================ | | 364) Sat, Oct 01, 2005 - 5:17:39 pm | URL | | | Apache/1.3.33 Server at www.partnerclicks.net Port 80 | | ============================================================================