MISCELLANEOUS Message Board http://www.hi-line.net/~gfeig/brd/misc/mindex.php Sun, 02 Oct 2005 07:32:23 _________________________________________________ | ============================================================================ | | 1) Fri, Jul 01, 2005 - 1:18:10 am | | gregy> | Okay....the new-style | board is up. | ........ | The Archives (link below) | .......... | are up, and it | .............. | looks like we're in business | .......... | | | ============================================================================ | | 2) Fri, Jul 01, 2005 - 1:23:30 am | | gregy> | Okay... | Back with Arachne, and | it's looking alright | ......... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 3) Sat, Jul 02, 2005 - 5:46:49 am | | | Very nice. :-) | | | ============================================================================ | | 4) Sat, Jul 02, 2005 - 10:38:40 am | | gregy> | Well, glad you like it. ..!!! | | And, I can't take any credit for it. It's all Glennmcc's fault... | ....... | 'Cause he's the dude who wrote/rewrote/rerewrote all these board | scripts.... | .. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 5) Sat, Jul 02, 2005 - 2:34:40 pm | | glennmcc> | Nope.... I can't take the credit for it either. | | It's still True's code... all I did was to tweak it a little bit to | suit our needs. | | Thanks again, True. :)) | | ============================================================================ | | 6) Sun, Jul 03, 2005 - 2:24:09 am | | gregy> | yes...we stand on the shoulders of giants..... | .. | And, True got his idea for doing it from Robin....who was instigated | by Michael.....he he....HE's TO BLAME....!!!!!! | ... | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 7) Sun, Jul 03, 2005 - 4:47:33 pm | | Little_Birdie> | gregy, there's a reply to your Q over on Jake's board | | ============================================================================ | | 8) Sun, Jul 03, 2005 - 11:29:19 pm | | gregy> | Thanks, Glenn...went there first...and got it... | | Also, If you want to bang on one of these boards, you have blanket | permission to bang on my /TEST/.... | | he he he....we won't lose any "significant posts" over there... | | | ============================================================================ | | 9) Tue, Jul 12, 2005 - 2:51:37 am | | gregy> | Now posting using ArachneOS2, which is a standard v.1.83 installed on a | native OS/2 RAMdisk, still using the Arachne Miniterm/EPPPD dialup and | PPP connect, rather than the OS/2 DUN. | .. | It seems to work pretty well. I have 115,584bytes DOS free mem now as | I'm connected ONLINE. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 10) Sun, Jul 17, 2005 - 2:40:17 pm | | gregy> | Good grief...!!! I have been tweaking with my DRDOS load environment, | and I just achieved 182,704bytes ONLINE... For all the past 5-6 years | running Arachne, I have ONLY best been running at 112,???bytes ONLINE, | and now, finally getting EPPPD to HILOAD, I'm ONLINE with that big | 182,704bytes...sheesh..!!! | .. | I don't know what affect this will have on my surfing performance, but | it doesn't seem to be hurting it any..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 11) Mon, Jul 18, 2005 - 7:20:10 pm | | gregy> | NOTICE - my ISP's backbone-net connections are bad, flakey, in-and-out, | so you might find my boards down intermittantly.. | | | ============================================================================ | | 12) Tue, Jul 19, 2005 - 9:31:20 pm | | gregy> | Glenn, | | I have done a bunch of things to my DRDOS6.0 to try to get XMSDSK to be | able to load. Nothing I could do seemed to help.....and...it appears | to be with DRDOS6.0, itself...because I did a sneaky...and swapped the | HIMEM.SYS and EMM386.SYS, plus associated AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS | entries, from my MSDOS6.22, and substituted them for DRDOS6.0 versions | of EMM386.SYS......and...guess what.....they worked... | .... | he he he...seems like these memory managers are sort of "OperatingSystem | Agnostic"....I mean, loading the MSDOS memmgrs, instead of the DRDOS | memmgrs didn't lock anything up, and it seemed to work alright.....but.. | ..even with the MSDOS memmgrs subbed for the DRDOS ones, the XMSDSK | attempt to load remained the same. It said it loaded, gave me the | XMSDSK version, then the cursor dropped down about two lines and locked | the system up..... | ...so..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 13) Tue, Jul 19, 2005 - 9:38:33 pm | | gregy> | It is probably (probably, even though it could still turn out to be | something I'm not setting right when I do a complete new DRDOS6.0 | SETUP), probably something about DRDOS6.0, itself, that it doesn't like, | and can't work with. | ... | I know it isn't the hardware, because the MSDOS6.22 boots on this same | box (using IBM BootManager) and XMSDSK runs fine under that. | ... | So....I'm gonna try to swap-out my DRDOS6.0 OperatingSystem for either | the OPDOS7.01 or the DRDOS7.03..... | ... | I know that both of those EMM386.SYSes will not allow me to C-A-D (but | instead, force me to PWR OFF), but I can live with that.... | ... | So, which one would you recommend, and please give me a little insight | into your reason(s) for recommending the one you recommend... | | | ============================================================================ | | 14) Tue, Jul 19, 2005 - 9:44:23 pm | | gregy> | Oh, BTW, you remember that I eBay-bought a QEMM set and could use that | for the memmgr, but...but....if I'm testing, and trying to run/test a | "mimimal box" I want to, at least, try to run the stock stuff, instead | of running special stuff that the ordinary JeeDuhnewUser (JDnewU) can't | get....whereas, the OpenDOS7.01 and DRDOS7.03 stuff is freely available | .... | | ============================================================================ | | 15) Wed, Jul 20, 2005 - 5:04:42 pm | | glennmcc> | My prfered DOS is OpenDos v7.01 rather than DR-DOS 7.03 | | 1) does everything I need to do | 2) smaller footprint in memory than 7.03 | 3) better memory management with emm386 included with 7.01 | 4) it's still 100% free for non commercial use | (the licence for 7.03 is very vague on that matter and Device Logics | probably _woudn't_ but never-the-less _could_ enforce the stipulations | of the 7.03 licence and force us to either stop[ using it or pay for a | licence to continue using it) | | 5) I naver found so much as a single advantage that 7.03 has over 7.01 | | ____ | | DR-DOS v8.0 on the other hand has one advantage over both 7.01 and 7.03 | "Native FAT32 support" for both reading from and writing to FAT32 HDD | partitions. | | With all of the earlier versions, we can load DR-FAT32.SYS which allows | us to read data from a FAT32 partition, but it does not support writing | of data to the FAT32 partition. | | It simply 'mounts' that partition as read only just as-if we had done | this in Linux... | | mkdir /fat32 | mount /dev/hda3 /fat32 -tvfat -r | | Now for the disadvantages that I have seen in v8.0 which I purchased | from Device Logics a little over a month ago. | | The only 3 files that have been updated are... | | IBMBIO.COM | IBMDOS.COM and | COMMAND.COM | | Evertyhing else you get for the 25 dollar licence fee are the 'utility' | files from Dr-DOS v7.03 | | I purchased my licence for v8.0 on June 2nd. | | This is the Email I sent on June 6th to-which I have not recieved a reply. | | ____________________________________________________________________________ | | | "Glenn McCorkle" | From: Arachne Fan Club | | To: Troy Tribe | | Reply-to:glennmcc@cisnet.com | | CC: Bryce Burns Bryce Burns < | bryce@devicelogics.com> | | Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:06:31 -0500 | | Mailer: Arachne v1.85;UE08 | | Subject: Re: Notification of Payment Received | | ============================================================================ | | To whom it may concern, | | The zip file which was attached to this email and was named DR_DOS_8.ZIP | contained not DrDos v8... but rather contains the 1.44mb diskette | install set for the utilities included with Caldera DrDos v7.03 | | --- contents of zip file ---- | Archive: /arachne/cache/dr_dos_8.zip | Length Method Size Ratio Date Time CRC-32 Name | -------- ------ ------- ----- ---- ---- ------ ---- | 1474979 Defl:N 1283500 13% 11-27-02 11:25 00227b83 disk01.144 | 1474979 Defl:N 1255622 15% 11-27-02 11:25 b0b1b4c1 disk02.144 | 1474979 Defl:N 646542 56% 11-27-02 11:25 ced73966 disk03.144 | 12899 Defl:N 5211 60% 11-27-02 11:31 15d458a5 LICENSE.TXT | 145 Defl:N 123 15% 03-19-03 14:43 0110fcf5 README | 190 Defl:N 96 50% 03-19-03 16:18 d1583d70 MKFLPY.BAT | 16608 Defl:N 8771 47% 03-19-03 14:40 cd803bc3 RAWRITE2.EXE | -------- ------- --- ------- | 4454779 3199865 28% 7 files | _____________________________ | | I already received an email a few days ago from Wendi Nelson which | included the single 1.44mb disk image of DrDos v8 boot disk in the | file named DRDOS8BO.ZIP | | --- contents of zip file ---- | Archive: /arachne/cache/drdos8bo.zip | Length Method Size Ratio Date Time CRC-32 Name | -------- ------ ------- ----- ---- ---- ------ ---- | 1474560 Defl:N 1162230 21% 04-21-04 09:56 4f2094a3 IMAGE.FLP | 7053 Defl:N 3340 53% 04-21-04 09:46 eeb504ed LICENSE.TXT | 27 Stored 27 0% 04-21-04 09:22 369c47c5 MKFLPY.BAT | 16608 Defl:N 8771 47% 04-21-04 09:22 cd803bc3 RAWRITE2.EXE | 511 Defl:N 311 39% 04-21-04 09:49 6816f9c6 README | -------- ------- --- ------- | 1498759 1174679 22% 5 files | _____________________________ | | Now on to other matters. | | Since I now have the boot files for DrDos v8 | | What about all of the rest of the utilities ? | | Right now I am running a system which is almost '100% pure' OpenDos v7.01 | | Has DeviceLogics updated any or all of the utilities that go along | with the boot files to then make a 'complete system'. | | And if so, when will they be available so that I can upgrade to a | complete system running nothing but DrDos v8 ? | | I would very much like to upgrade so that all of the utility | files could be replaced with their DrDos v8 counter-parts. | | Is this going to be possible in the near future ? | Or are the utility files for DrDos v7.03 the best I can hope for ? | | ____________________________________________________________________________ | | | | ============================================================================ | | 16) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 2:21:26 am | | gregy> | Glenn....thank you for your comprehensive reply. I have already come | to the conclusion that OpDOS7.01 would be the best to switch to, but | I wanted your input, also. AND, a large influence on my choice was, | apart from the "not any great(if any) improvement" from 7.01-to-7.03, | that you are using 7.01 extensively, and I knew. if I got into trouble, | I could always holler..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 17) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 2:22:36 am | | gregy> | I have already prepared my C:\ partition, to accept the 7.01, and I | will load it later tonight... | | | ============================================================================ | | 18) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 4:15:41 am | | gregy> | GOT IT...!!!!! | ... | Glenn, am here on my new OpDOS7.01 install..... | ... | he he he....being sorta a sneaky type, I cheated.... | .. | My DOS in always installed to my C:\DRDOS directory....so... | I renamed my existing C:\DRDOS to C:\DR60, MadeDir DR701, ReName to | C:\DRDOS, attribed my existing IBMBIO and IBMDOS files and wiped the | root. Stuck the Disk #1 in A: and rebooted...... | ... | Slicker-n-snot.... | .. | A little tweaking of AUTOEXEC and CONFIG, to adjust paths, etc, and | disable SETVER, caching, etc....reboot, load Arachne (he loaded with | 188,688bytes DOS mem free....and ALT-D...and....voila...!!!! here I | am....with 188,000bytes DOS mem free.... | .. | The thing seems to be working flawlessly....now that I've said that, | it will prolly go to pot...but...it looks like this is my new DOS | OperatingSystem..... | ... | And, I know that effen I gets swarmed, you'll stand back and cheer... | ..... | BTW....haven't, yet tested XMSDSK on this new OS install, am using the | standard VDISK, but I'm confident it'll work. I mean, after all, YOU | can get it to work..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 19) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 7:14:16 am | | gregy> | yep...XMSDSK works like a charm, on OpDOS7.01........ | | | ============================================================================ | | 20) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 7:54:20 am | | telemarketer> | well..... I see...... | | you didn't invite ME over here..... | | oh well, I'm used to being 'persona non grata', after all, I AM a telemarke | | ============================================================================ | | 21) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 5:44:57 pm | | glennmcc> | Gregy, | | FANTASTIC !!!! | | Welcome the world of 'trouble free computing'. :-) | | Now.... once you've gotten used to OpenDos 7.01 using EMM386 for memory mana | | Install Qemm and give that a try. | | Have a look at the memory stats while inside of Arachne. | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | | Conventional 655,360 ( 640K ) 642,928 ( 628K ) | Upper 282,128 ( 276K ) 89,264 ( 87K ) | High 65,520 ( 64K ) 3,128 ( 3K ) | Extended 67,043,328 ( 65,472K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 6,814,720 ( 6,655K ) | EMS 267,517,952 ( 261,248K) 163,348,480 ( 159,520K) | | Largest executable program: 642,912 ( 628K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 732,192 ( 715K ) | | ------------ | | Conventional memory: | Name Size in Decimal Size in Hex | | DOS 88,048 ( 85K ) 157F0 | QEMM386$ 768 ( 0K ) 300 | COMMAND 1,936 ( 1K ) 790 | FREE 642,928 ( 627K ) 9CF70 | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | Extended 67,043,328 ( 65,472K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 6,814,720 ( 6,655K ) | EMS 267,517,952 ( 261,248K) 163,348,480 ( 159,520K) | | Largest executable program: 642,912 ( 628K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 732,192 ( 715K ) | | | | ============================================================================ | | 22) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 5:46:12 pm | | glennmcc> | Hi Tele :) | | ============================================================================ | | 23) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 9:34:14 pm | | gregy> | tele....you know you're always welcome...I didn't think I hadda issue | an invite..... | .. | And...iffen you'd go to Glenn's main Arachne page, you'll find a link | to this board right there..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 24) Thu, Jul 21, 2005 - 9:39:28 pm | | gregy> | yes, Glenn...that's what I eBay-bought QEMM for........but...for | right now, I want to get used to the 701 memmgr, and see about it's | quirks, if any. | ... | After all, when we get JDnewU coming on board with Arachne, we are going | to point him/her to OpDOS7.01 "stock" as it stands, without QEMM, and | we want to be able to recommend that combination with pretty full | knowledge of it. | .. | Also, I'm going to put those 4-each FreeDOS .IMGs on floppies and | install them, just as soon as I get DRDOS6.0 cleared out to make room. | .. | Then I'll use the FrDOS and OpDOS alternately, and can then recommend | either.....hmmmm....well, that is, if FreeDOS works out.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 25) Fri, Jul 22, 2005 - 12:56:56 pm | | glennmcc> | Yep, good idea to get used to the 'stock' stuff first. | | Here's one limitation you'll find with EMM386 vs Qemm | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | | Conventional 654,336 ( 639K ) 638,224 ( 623K ) | Upper 126,976 ( 124K ) 68,464 ( 67K ) | High 65,520 ( 64K ) 3,128 ( 3K ) | Extended 67,043,328 ( 65,472K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 65,511,424 ( 63,976K ) | | Largest executable program: 638,208 ( 623K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 706,688 ( 690K ) | | | As we see.... EMM386 can only 'see' 64meg out of my 256meg of RAM | | Therefore, I can't setup my huge 100meg RamDrive when using EMM386 | | XMSDSK.EXE 100000 L: /c1 /y | | ============================================================================ | | 26) Fri, Jul 22, 2005 - 1:05:51 pm | | glennmcc> | Qemm can 'see' all of it. | | Memory Type Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) Available For Programs | | Conventional 655,360 ( 640K ) 643,136 ( 628K ) | Upper 282,128 ( 276K ) 118,576 ( 116K ) | High 65,520 ( 64K ) 3,128 ( 3K ) | Extended 67,043,328 ( 65,472K ) 0 ( 0K ) | Extended via XMS -------- 6,814,720 ( 6,655K ) | EMS 267,517,952 ( 261,248K) 265,764,864 ( 259,536K) | | Largest executable program: 643,120 ( 628K ) | Total Free DOS memory: 761,712 ( 744K ) | | ============================================================================ | | 27) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 2:24:25 am | | gregy> | I think I understand that you're saying 701EMM386 can only see 64Mbyte | ...??? | Which, for JDnewU would probably be sufficient for introducing him/her | to Arachne (I mean, does Arachne really NEED to run on 64Mbyte...???) | .... | And, I have no boxes with >64Mbyte currently installed....BUT, whenever | I upgrade this old AT P133 to 128Mbyte, I'm gonna need my QEMM...??? | ... | Oh, and not to mention my 3 "new" AT mobos with IBM/Cyrix P150+ CPUs | that take 256Mbytes, or the two "new" ATX mobos with Socket A (?) | 266MHz-300MHz CPUs that take 512Mbytes.... | | I'd better get my QEMM dusted off..... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 28) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 2:28:24 am | | gregy> | Which brings up the question. I've unzipped and installed (then wiped) | the QEMM 7.5 I bought (along with the 8.0 that came with it)...as per | our discussion that 7.5 was just fine, and you recommended it rather | than the 8.0.... | ... | Now, when I did that, and read the manuals, and readmes, etc, it looks | like a whole lot of extraneous stuff gets put on my disk (which is why | I wiped it after checking it). | QUESTION - Just what files do I need for minimum QEMM functionality | (just the memory manager part of it)....???? | | | ============================================================================ | | 29) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 3:07:01 pm | | glennmcc> | After getting it all setup by running the included 'optimize.exe' | | The 3 files will be needed.... | | DOS-UP.DAT 54 2-14-01 12:54a | DOS-UP.SYS 34982 11-22-94 7:50a | QEMM386.SYS 233803 4-08-97 10:26p | | All else that comes with it is only needed during setup/opimization. | | ============================================================================ | | 30) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 3:15:21 pm | | glennmcc> | Have a look at the contents of my 'utilities diskette' for working on | machines with 'dead hard drives'. | | rsa-h- 27,880 2-27-97 7:01a a:\ibmbio.com | rsa-h- 30,081 2-27-97 7:01a a:\ibmdos.com | --a--- 265 7-23-05 4:11p a:\autoexec.bat | --a--- 537 8-05-03 8:11p a:\cdload.bat | ------ 59,500 2-27-97 7:01a a:\chkdsk.exe | --a--- 55,077 2-27-97 7:01a a:\command.com | --a--- 269 8-12-03 9:40p a:\config.sys | --a--- 3,917 1-01-92 12:00a a:\ddl.com | ------ 19,291 2-27-97 7:01a a:\fdisk.com | ------ 22,716 2-27-97 7:01a a:\format.com | ------ 180,384 5-31-00 8:22p a:\gdisk.exe | --a--- 17 1-01-80 4:55p a:\gds.bat | --a--- 31,824 1-06-97 12:57p a:\ltnide.sys | ------ 16,492 2-27-97 7:01a a:\mem.exe | --a--- 85 7-23-05 4:12p a:\menu.bat | ------ 1,818 9-12-99 6:53p a:\menu.txt | ------ 16,076 2-27-97 7:01a a:\mode.com | --a--- 21,737 2-27-97 7:01a a:\nwcdex.exe | --a--- 29,378 2-01-93 2:04a a:\pkunzip.exe | --a--- 42,166 2-01-93 2:04a a:\pkzip.exe | ------ 16,764 2-27-97 7:01a a:\sys.com | ------ 100,875 2-27-97 7:01a a:\undelete.exe | --a--- 25 7-23-05 4:12p a:\xp.bat | --a--- 56,425 3-10-92 3:10a a:\mouse\2mouse.com | --a--- 24 1-18-94 8:00p a:\mouse\2mouse.ini | --a--- 55,169 3-10-92 3:10a a:\mouse\2mouse.sys | ------ 4,767 1-01-01 1:08a a:\mouse\ctmouse.exe | --a--- 13,740 3-31-92 3:23p a:\mouse\mouse.com | --a--- 24 2-28-97 2:35p a:\mouse\mouse.ini | --a--- 4,434 4-01-92 10:33a a:\mouse\readme.txt | --a--- 22,651 10-19-91 4:22p a:\mouse\test.exe | ------ 35,020 12-19-96 10:11p a:\opendos\nwcache.exe | ------ 33,551 12-19-96 10:11p a:\opendos\nwcache.ov1 | ------ 29,465 12-19-96 10:11p a:\opendos\nwcache.ov2 | ------ 54 2-14-01 12:54a a:\qemm\dos-up.dat | ------ 34,982 11-22-94 7:50a a:\qemm\dos-up.sys | ------ 233,803 4-08-97 10:26p a:\qemm\qemm386.sys | ------ 46,510 11-19-87 4:15a a:\xtpro\xtpro.com | ------ 24,470 10-23-87 2:27p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x01 | ------ 4,040 10-23-87 2:27p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x02 | ------ 15,068 10-23-87 2:27p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x10 | ------ 15,307 10-23-87 2:27p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x20 | ------ 13,397 10-23-87 2:27p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x30 | ------ 14,034 10-23-87 2:28p a:\xtpro\xtpro.x40 | total files 44 total bytes 1,334,109 disk free space 108,544 | | | | ============================================================================ | | 31) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 4:36:24 pm | | telemarketer> | | Hi gregy... yes I know I'm welcome here, I was just 'funnin' witch ya ;) | | | | ============================================================================ | | 32) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 10:01:30 pm | | gregy> | hi tele...I knew that you knew that I knew that you knew that I | knew..... | ... | And, I can alus benefit from a little being "funned with"....I mean, | life's so serious, it's not necessary to take it too seriously... | ... | effen ya know what I mean..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 33) Sat, Jul 23, 2005 - 10:02:59 pm | | gregy> | Okay, Glenn...thanks for the info and hints. That diskette of yours | looks kinda like my "Disaster Diskette".......most of those | things have their equivalent on mine.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 34) Wed, Jul 27, 2005 - 4:36:53 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Dear fellow Arachne fans....... | | I have just now uploaded v1.85;GPL,386+ | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/ | | --- on the front page --- | Arachne v1.71, v1.73, v1.75, v1.77, v1.79, v1.81 | and v1.83 are no longer available on this site. | | Available Jul 27, 2005...... Arachne v1.85;GPL,386+ | ___________________________________________________ | | Enjoy !!! :) | | ============================================================================ | | 35) Thu, Jul 28, 2005 - 4:57:45 am | | gregy> | Yep...gots it installed on both my OpDOS701 and my Warp3C...and it's | here, right now...on the Warp....and both installs working "finest | kind"........ | | | ============================================================================ | | 36) Fri, Jul 29, 2005 - 4:28:39 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Got bored last evening... 'dressed-up' the page that shows my site stats. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 37) Sat, Jul 30, 2005 - 12:16:02 am | | gregy> | well...that kinda looks schmaltzee.... | ... | As you may have noticed, I have your Arachne d/l directory, with the | GPL announcement, in my email signature, now (don't know why I never | did it before....just numb, I guess), and you'll prolly get even more | hits, at least, on that...... | .... | BTW...I notice you've been somewhat quiet the past few days (since you | released 1.85..???)...I hope it's just that you're taking a well | deserved rest, and not that you're having difficulties....??? | | | ============================================================================ | | 38) Sat, Jul 30, 2005 - 12:18:42 am | | gregy> | BTW2....nice job on 1.85....I'm never gonna fullsomely praise you (don't | wanna explode your head........)...but...consider this: | ... | You've managed to suck-in a crotchety old slowpoke like me, to do a | couple swift installs, and start using it majorly....and I haven't | griped, yet (just wait, though.......).... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 39) Sat, Jul 30, 2005 - 12:21:03 am | | gregy> | BTW3....I'm in the thoes of commissioning (I think) another, bigger box, | and once I get it all installed, etc...I'm gonna want to start | "uncommenting the extra goodies" and getting more into utilizing Arachne | for MultiMedia stuff...so....brace yourself....you KNOW I'll have lotsa | dumb questions.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 40) Sat, Jul 30, 2005 - 6:28:14 am | | gregy> | Hey....!!! I'm here on my "new" Pentium-S 133MHz box, Arachne 1.85.. | ... | and...it's blindingly fast.....(well, of course, 133Mhz is just a tad | bit swifter.........) | ... | Had the devil of a time trying to detect my modem.../it's internal - | yeah, I know...BAD,BAD,BAD..but the box originally belonged to my older | sister, who retired it into the safe keeping of my younger sister, who | ....passed it to me, "If you can make any use of it....".... | ... | And, who can change a sister's bad habits (whingedoze, internal PCI | modems, etc)... | .. | Finally, I just said, "The heck with it." and loaded my .ACFs, .BATS, | etc, etc, into it, launched it, and ALT-D....voila..!!!....here I am... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 41) Mon, Aug 01, 2005 - 2:49:26 am | | gregy> | welp...buggered the P133, tonight.........it looks like the video | card went, or the motherboard PCI bridge that services the PCI slot(s) | ....the box seems to boot alright, because I get no beeps, and can see | the scan/setup of the keyboard, etc...so ... it looks like the video. | ... | My dandy 17" Dell-branded Sony Trinitron gives me the warning light, | and the on-screen box stating "Out of Scan Range".....usually meaning | it has lost the video signal....but...hey...tomorrow's another day, | and I gots a handful of vidcards to swap in and out....both ISA and | PCI.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 42) Mon, Aug 01, 2005 - 11:56:29 am | | telemarketer> | | hi gregy | | | how's the P133 working out now ? I got a P-120 that's got dos and win3.1 on | 32 ??? I don't remember. I use it mainly for generating my telemarketing dia | | | ============================================================================ | | 43) Tue, Aug 02, 2005 - 1:09:43 am | | gregy> | tele...I haven't isolated the problem, yet.....all I can tell at present | is that when I boot/reboot, I get nothing on the screen, but it seems | to go, at least, partway through the POST... | .. | I'm gonna hafta pull those new RAMchips out, reinstall the originals | (return to original config, as is the proper troubleshooting technique) | then go from there. | .... | I have several different video cards (both ISA and PCI) to swap in and | out, so I can probably get something that way, also. | ... | However, in a pinch...I'll just replace the mobo, with one of the new | AT mobos, with IBM/Cyrix P150+ CPU and 128MbyteRAM...and go from there. | .. | That is, if the mobo just WON'T boot-video whatever I do... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 44) Tue, Aug 16, 2005 - 5:01:03 am | URL | | chary> | | If you want to have a better life just try this one so that our life would b | | You know I’m a smoker for a couple years then I decided to quit, my friend t | successful with my aim. | Now I’m very proud to that product. | Ten Reasons To Quit Smoking | 1. 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No more second hand smoke to your lovely baby. | | Information: | | Just visit our site: http://partnerclicks.net/click.php?APID=2&affID=0001017 | Call Tel. #: 63-32-412-4084 | Internet phone: 0303-4710-7565 | Our Address in Japan is: | Kawai Bldg 6F, 1-32-6, Higashi-Ikebukuro, Toshima-ku, Tokyo, Japan 170-0013 | TEL # (Japan) : 81-3-5960-5222 | FAX # (Japan): 81-3-5960-5225 | Note: If you are willing to buy our product just visit this link: http://par | at the upper portion of the site, then choose what flavor do you want, you c | “Order” again then click to “Proceed to checkout then fill-up the form there | | What you are waiting for ORDER NOW!!! | | | Hope you enjoy our product: NosmoQ | | ============================================================================ | | 45) Tue, Aug 23, 2005 - 2:47:15 am | | | chary>: | I agree that smoking is bad, but what really pisses me off are spammers of | internet and you are killing it.Why don't you get up off of your fat ass and | their health just so you can turn a quit profit. | #I fart in your general direction.# | | | | ============================================================================ | | 46) Wed, Aug 24, 2005 - 1:01:05 am | | gregy> | Well, I'm glad you farted in her direction. It would have been a real | horror if you'da stunk up the board..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 47) Wed, Aug 24, 2005 - 1:02:12 am | | gregy> | BTW, ....I think that's the first spammer we've had on any of | our message boards... Can you remember any others on any of our | boards....??? | | | ============================================================================ | | 48) Wed, Aug 24, 2005 - 3:16:25 am | | glennmcc> | short memory. | | This very board was spammed several times shortly after you started it. | | | ============================================================================ | | 49) Wed, Aug 24, 2005 - 3:26:48 am | | glennmcc> | | ========================================================================== | | Fri, Jan 23, 2004 - 5:48:55 pm | | | | ???> | | jh, enjoy your good fortune! The rest of us like to enjoy a tough life. | | | | ========================================================================== | | | | Sat, Jan 24, 2004 - 5:49:07 am | | | | Lunar> | | Not a pyramid scheme? If it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck, | | etc. | | | | | | ========================================================================== | | | | Sat, Jan 24, 2004 - 3:35:36 pm | | | | gregy> | | he he...looks like the spammers have found the board......... | | ..oh, well....it all goes away....whenever I decide it's too full... | | ... | | ... | | Oh, and Lunar.....nah....that could NOT, POSSIBLY, be a pyramid scheme | | ... | | ... | | It's REALLY a duck..... | | | | | | ========================================================================== | | ============================================================================ | | 50) Wed, Aug 24, 2005 - 10:03:10 pm | | gregy> | Ahhh, yes...I had forgotten........but...that'll be easy to pull | from the archive, when I archive it, and it doesn't seem to happen too | often... | ... | I haven't seen it happen to your AQC, but I've prolly missed it...but | it doesn't happen too often over there, either... | | | ============================================================================ | | 51) Thu, Aug 25, 2005 - 7:10:48 pm | | glennmcc> | Yep, not too often.... but it did happen a few times on mine also. | | | ============================================================================ | | 52) Thu, Aug 25, 2005 - 9:56:19 pm | | gregy> | well...I don't have "meta" tags, and other things to attract the loonies | ...but...I guess a few are still bound to flutter in, occasionally.. | .... | | | ============================================================================ | | 53) Thu, Aug 25, 2005 - 10:00:32 pm | | gregy> | Got the poor old P133 straightened out...I think.....after all that | CMOS-poof!!! and recovery, etc....I'm now a little more familiar with | it, and can prolly keep it running for another 5-10 years.... | ... | I'll tell you....a P133 is a LOT faster than a 486dlc 40MHz.....rightly | so...but having both firedup and on a KVM, so I can switch from one | to the other...I mean...it's like night and day..... | ... | Now, I gotta get the new CD-RW into the P133, and get my Warp3Connect | loaded up.....I've never run OS/2 on anything real fast, and haven't | run it on the P133 for a looonnnnnngggg time, so I'm eager to see what | it's gonna do....I think ArachneOS2 is gonna fly on it..... | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 54) Wed, Aug 31, 2005 - 9:07:16 pm | | gregy> | Ray...if you filter thru that stuff you read about the N.O. doomsday, | you see that most, if not all, of it is glob-warm propaganda.... | .. | The FACTS are: | 1. The storm did NOT hit dead on the area/city. | 2. The worst front of the storm hit in East Biloxi. | 3. The storm had already gone over, when the levees failed. | 4. The levees failed on the LAKE side of the city, NOT on | the side facing any "storm surge"... | 5. The levees failed, NOT due to waters rising in the canels and the | lake so the waters washed OVER the levees....they failed because they | sprung leaks in two places, and, as any farmer knows, your dam is soon | gone, if you don't immediately plug such. | 6. Those levee failures should NEVER have occurred...i.e. NO overflood, | surgeover, etc. They failed due to just plain extra rain ON THEM, and | small leaks cascading into major failures. | ... | However...given the usual propaganda expertise of the LA politicians | (after all, that's where Huey Long was from), and our great Corp of | Dumb-gineers, they'll point all their fingers at everyone else they | possibly can. Just to keep "we the people" from grabbing them and | stringing them up (as if we would, we no longer have the guts)... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 55) Wed, Aug 31, 2005 - 9:09:38 pm | | gregy> | Glenn...yes..I expect to pay more for my needed wood products. This | will be due to a number of factors, one of which is the recent WTO | "wood products" decision that just went against the Canadians. | | | ============================================================================ | | 56) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 2:21:30 am | | gregy> | Just to refute the glob-warm environ-bationists about "eeewwww, global | warming...yada, yada, yada." Hurricanes have NOT been getting worse. | | U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade | http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml | Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:16:43 | _________________________________ | | www.nws.noaa.gov | | --------------------------------+ | | U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade | | ========================================= | Number of hurricanes by Saffir-Simpson Category | to strike the mainland U.S. each decade. | | ,--------------------------------------------- | | | Saffir-Simpson | | | | | | Category1 | All |Major| | | Decade | | 1,2,3,4,5|3,4,5| | | |-------------------+ | | | |1 |2 |3 |4 |5 | | | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1851-1860|8 |5 |5 |1 |0 | 19 |6 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1861-1870|8 |6 |1 |0 |0 | 15 |1 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1871-1880|7 |6 |7 |0 |0 | 20 |7 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1881-1890|8 |9 |4 |1 |0 | 22 |5 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1891-1900|8 |5 |5 |3 |0 | 21 |8 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1901-1910|10 |4 |4 |0 |0 | 18 |4 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1911-1920|10 |4 |4 |3 |0 | 21 |7 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1921-1930|5 |3 |3 |2 |0 | 13 |5 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1931-1940|4 |7 |6 |1 |1 | 19 |8 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1941-1950|8 |6 |9 |1 |0 | 24 |10 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1951-1960|8 |1 |5 |3 |0 | 17 |8 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1961-1970|3 |5 |4 |1 |1 | 14 |6 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1971-1980|6 |2 |4 |0 |0 | 12 |4 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1981-1990|9 |1 |4 |1 |0 | 15 |5 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1991-2000|3 |6 |4 |0 |1 | 14 |5 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 2001-2004|4 |2 |2 |1 |0 | 9 |3 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | 1851-2004|109|72 |71 |18 |3 | 273 |92 | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | Average | | | | | | | | | Per |7.1|4.7|4.6|1.2|0.2| 17.7 |6.0 | | Decade | | | | | | | | | ---------+---+---+---+---+---+ ---------+-----+ | | | Only the highest Saffir-Simpson Category to | ffect the U.S. has been used. | | | This is taken from | THE DEADLIEST, COSTLIEST, AND MOST INTENSE | UNITED STATES HURRICANES FROM 1900 TO 2000 | (AND OTHER FREQUENTLY REQUESTED HURRICANE | FACTS) | by | Jerry D. Jarrell(retired), Max Mayfield, and | Edward N. Rappaport | NOAA/NWS/ Tropical Prediction Center | Miami, Florida | | Christopher W. Landsea | NOAA/AOML/Hurricane Research Division | Miami, Florida | | ========================================== | | Take THAT..!!!! oh, glob-warm environ-bationists......!!!!! | | | ============================================================================ | | 57) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 2:27:33 am | | gregy> | Second...."ewwww, the glob is warming, the glob is warming, eek! eek! | eek!" | | The Little Ice Age started around 1300-1450 a.d. It was preceeded by | the Medieval Warming Period about 300-1200 a.d. The Little Ice Age | is not counted as done until 1850-1890 a.d. Since then, you'd BETTER | hope we've been warming up..!!!! If not, then we're still in the throes | of the Little Ice Age....and... | For a FACT...we haven't yet warmed up to the levels that preceeded the | Little Ice Age....so... | .... | Hey,...boys and girls.....surPRISE!!!!!!!!....Glaciers are melting... | Arctic and Antarctic ice is melting....hoRAY...!!!!!!...means we're | still coming out of the throes of the Little Ice Age... | ... | FACTS..!!!! | ... | Go study history, and etc...!!!! | | | | ============================================================================ | | 58) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 5:34:28 am | | gregy> | | | List of U.S. Aid Recipients Offering | | Disaster Relief | | | | Posted by Plaut's Complaint @ | | Thursday 1 September 2005, 1:58 am | | | | Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has piped in | | with his endorsement of the view, | | discussed yesterday here, that Bush | | and the neocons are responsible for | | Hurricane Katrina because they caused | | global warming. He wrote inter alia: | | "As Hurricane Katrina dismantles | | Mississippirs Gulf Coast, itrs worth | | recalling the central role that | | Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour | | played in derailing the Kyoto | | Protocol and kiboshing President | | Bushrs iron-clad campaign promise to | | regulate CO2." See also this. | | | | Meanwhile, we thought we'd bring you | | the list of countries from around the | | world (and overseas Red Cross | | offices) that in the past received | | natural disaster aid from the US who | | have volunteered aid and assistance | | to New Orleans and Gulfport. Here is | | the list: | | | | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | . | ..that's it, folks.... | | ============================================================================ | | 59) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 6:04:32 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | The original pages are gone. | | Thankfully, | I saved the most relavent ones and have just nowre-uploaded them to my site. | | http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/global-warming_my-ass/ | | ============================================================================ | | 60) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:27:44 pm | | gregy> | yes, Glenn....most of the REASONABLE people need to get Bjorn Lomborg's | book...he's an "environmentalist" (not an environ-bationist)...and he | blew the glob-warm bunch out of the water. Not because we don't have | some bit of global warming (it goes in cycles, as far as historical | DATA tells)...but because he debunks the CO2-eek,eek,eek idiots... | the advocates of dumb-yoto... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 61) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:32:04 pm | | ray> | Gregy, | | Well, the last thing I need it another board to take up my time, | but I can resist anything but temptation ;-) | | You defend your position above well but, it would seem, contradictorl | ialy. You say there is no global warming, but to defend that | possition, you claim that we are still coming out of the little | Ice Age and thus global warming is to be expected. So is or is not | the planet warming up? If so, it would seem to me that we are | experiencing global warming. I don't see how you can have it both | ways. | | | ============================================================================ | | 62) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:33:41 pm | | ray> | Oppps, I see by your last post that you do belive in global warming | it's just that you don't believe C02 has anything to do with it, right? | | | ============================================================================ | | 63) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:37:02 pm | | ray> | So do you believe that the meteorologists and other scientists who | seem to be concerned that mankind's activities are having an impact | on the weather are all idiots? And if so, what are your credentials | for making that assertion? | | | | ============================================================================ | | 64) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:51:45 pm | | glennmcc> | Speaking for myself. | I do not dispute the notion that there may be warming trend occuring in | the earths' climate. | | What I _do_ dipute are the claims of just how drastic that warming trend is. | | And I most certianly dipute the claim that we lowly humans are causeing | said warmming trend. | | Case-in-point.... | | 25,000 years ago there were glaciers right here in NE Ohio | | I suppose that the warming trend which _did_ happen that melted those | glaciers and caused them to receed over 1,000 miles north of here was | due to the cave men burning too many fires to cook the wolly mamoth they | had hunted-down and killed for food. | | On that note... I suppose that these same cave men actually caused the | extinction of the wooly mamoth due to over hunting. | | ============================================================================ | | 65) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 8:56:53 pm | | ray> | I'd say it's a matter of degree. It is a simple fact of physics | that some gases, like C02 do have the property of trapping infrared | radiation. Now, how much of an effect 'we' are having is open | to dispute, of course, and I too have little time for scare-mongering. | OTOH it seems equaly silly to me to catagoricaly deny even the | posiblity that we are having an effect, as Gregy seems to be doing. | Absence of proof is not proof of absence, to use the old maxim. | | | ============================================================================ | | 66) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 9:12:05 pm | | glennmcc> | As for the scientist who claim that global warming is the result of | human activities being idiots. | | By no means. | | In-fact, they are geniuses. | | They have figured-out a way of making themselves rich by making | the general public believe that what they say is true, hence keeping | themselves employed in the job of telling lies. | | The scientist who tells the most believable lie | is the one who gets a promotion and a larger salary. | | Or perhaps yet another government grant to do yet another 'study' | so that the yet more lies can be told to the general public. | | The simple truth of the matter that no-one seems willing to face up to | is that MAN does not control mother nature. | | Quite the contrary... it is mother nature who controls MAN. | | MAN did not begin to rapidly develop intellectually | and did not begin to develop materially until HE figured out how to | reduce the amount of control which mother nature had over HIM. | | As soon as MAN began to build shelter from mother nature and began | to cultivate crops, raise animals for food, use various forms of fuel | for producing heat to protect HIMSELF from the cold of mother nature.... | the intellect began to develop at a vastly increased rate. | | But......... MAN is still at the mercy of mother nature. | | Katrina has just proven once again that mother nature still reigns supreme. | | | ============================================================================ | | 67) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 9:14:21 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"Absence of proof is not proof of absence, to use the old maxim." | | | Oh yes it is....... | | Absence of proof, is proof of absence of proof. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 68) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:19:38 pm | | gregy> | et al, I really DO suggest you do some digging before trying to defend | the glob-warmer-environ-bationists. | ... | google - "bjorn lomborg" and start from there. | .. | And, also, Glenn's pages, that he posted the link to over on his AQC | board, are a good place to get some perspective. | | | ============================================================================ | | 69) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:26:10 pm | | gregy> | Ray....of COURSE I "believe(?)" in global temperature changes. As Glenn | points out in addition to my points about temperature changes, there has | been, at least, one occurance of a continental ice-sheet on North | America. It ain't there, today, eureka!!! it has melted...therefore | global temperature change of a positive nature. BUT...evidence.... | ..evidence (scientific data...ermmm...I'd rather term it "physics data" | in the broader sense, not just our present day field of physics) shows | VERY strongly that before that plus-temperature change, there was a | ...SURPRISE.!!!!...minus-temperature change, that existed for a period | of time while the ice-sheet was first in existence (if it didn't first | cause the creation of the ice sheet, it at least was colder to begin | with)... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 70) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:29:35 pm | | gregy> | So, I'm not talking about a "belief"....as the no-nothing glob-warm nuts | are....I'm talking about accepting the REAL physics-data (physical data) | that tells me certain FACTS about the world environment, and causes me | to draw certain conclusions BASED UPON PHYSICS RULES/LAWS.... | .... | So, I don't "believe" I accept facts and draw conclusions. | ... | And, I almost totally agree with Glenn's stated facts and lines of | reasoning, above... | | | ============================================================================ | | 71) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:37:51 pm | | gregy> | Where this whole CO2 baloney comes from can be traced back to the | "scientism worship" of one of its "great heros"....to whit: Carl Sagan. | ...who was such a media-freak-darling that his looney ideas are still | enshrined in the solid lead of the heads of most of his followers. | ... | He proposed/promoted/propagandized about "greenhouse gases" and "global | warming" SOLELY to combat the proposals/theories of Immanuel Velikovsky | ...especially concerning the VERY high heat of the planet Venus (over | 800degrees F)... | ...his arguments wouldn't wash then (but you could never crush him, | because he was the darling of the media, and tolerated/promoted by | other members of the "scientism establishment" hoping to stave off the | acceptance of the Velikovsky data/proposals/predictions/theories... | ... | And, given that we still have the same uniformitarianism cliche still | enforcing the "scientism" religion, the media and general public still | don't know any better. | ... | NO...!!!! There is NO sound scientific data that validates the effects | of so-called "greenhouse gases"....all is speculation/theories/computer | models (and...are you gonna try to tell me to trust in "computer models" | ...........) | | | ============================================================================ | | 72) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:43:43 pm | | gregy> | So, Look at Glenn's pages....read my chart, above, google/read/study | and you'll find all the info necessary to give you an intelligent | awareness of what's truely happening in the glov-warm kerfuffle... | ... | As I said, over on Glenn's board, and Glenn said, here...it's all being | done to promote individuals' grabs for personal/collective power over | the human race. Glob-warm is the old communist-conspiracy with a new | face-lift. | ... | Oh, you say, "That's extreme"...??? Go compare the list from the | commie-conspiracy and the present glob-warm....you'll find OOODLES of | matche-ups.... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 73) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:46:25 pm | | gregy> | Which brings up the eternal, universal rule - "People with crap in their | heads yesterday, will still likely have crap in their heads today.".. | ..and COLLARY #1 - "Once a craphead, always a craphead."... | ... | Ah, any exceptions to this general rule, are, as always, proof thereof. | .... | | | ============================================================================ | | 74) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 10:55:26 pm | | gregy> | "So do you believe that the meteorologists and other scientists who | seem to be concerned that mankind's activities are having an impact | on the weather are all idiots?" | | Yes...if not delusional idiots, then they are evil manipulators.!!!! | | "And if so, what are your credentials for making that assertion?" | Ray, here you have just commited the logical fallacy known as "Appeal | to Authority".... | Hey...I can look outside, right this minute, see that it is dark...and | proclaim to you (and all and sundry) that IT IS NIGHT..!!!! | I don't need any authority to do that, other than the FACT that it is | true and my PHYSICAL DATA upon which I base my proclamation is not | refutable. (I mean, not REALLY refutable...lotsa idiots can/will | dispute it, and claim they've refuted it, but they haven't REALLY | refuted it).. | | | ============================================================================ | | 75) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:00:31 pm | | gregy> | A little, tiny, ForWhatIt'sWorth...did you see a couple weeks ago, the | story in the media about how "it's the cows farting in the mountains and | valleys around Los Angeles that are the biggest cause of the smog." | ...??? | Oh, you didn't....well...it was there...you can search around and find | it. | .. | Now, doesn't it start to kinda make your head flip-flip when you run | into one of these unconscious "sprung-a-leak" let the cat out of the | bag sorta admissions, from the scientism and their agitprop minions | (i.e. the MainLeftStreamMedia)....??? | ... | Just ponder that recent news story, for a while, and see what small | conclusions you can come to. | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 76) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:01:12 pm | | glennmcc> | FYI, | | I have been searching high and low and everywhere in btween for 15years | now trying find even the smallest shred of 'proof' the MAN is having | even the slightest measurable effect upon the climate of this planet. | | To-date I have found none. | | Quite the contrary, I have found TONS of evidence which PROVES that there | has been LESS change in the climate during the 'industrial age of MAN' | than there was during the 'pre-industrial age'. | | ============================================================================ | | 77) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:06:01 pm | | gregy> | Now, Ray...I'm not trying to make you thing like I do...or even accept | the same conclusions that I do....what I'm trying to do is carry on an | intelligent discussion/argument with you, and, in order to do that, I'm | trying to "clear-the-decks" here and get you to NOT continue to palm | those "otherguys'" agitprop off on me as the basis for your arguments. | .. | Once you'll start just proposing conclusions, and defending same, based | upon FACTS, not agitprop...then we can continue to fruitful discussion, | regardless of whether or not we agree. | ... | But, first we gotta dump the agitpropters' baloney... | | | ============================================================================ | | 78) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:07:43 pm | | gregy> | Glenn....well, there's gotta be a reason for that "absence", then... | .. | You don't suppose that the normal state of earth-climate is to have | wild swings, and that man's activities are somewhat damping it down..?? | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 79) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:07:46 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | Read it for yourself. | (that is is IF you can contain your laughter long enough) | | | | ============================================================================ | | 80) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:12:48 pm | | glennmcc> | And this ain't the 1st "Cow fart study". | | Over 10 years ago... one of reputable research facilities received a | $180 millon grant from the US gov to do a similar study to dermine what | effect cow farts were having upon the (theoretically existing), ozone layer. | | ============================================================================ | | 81) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:14:37 pm | | glennmcc> | They did such a great job of making their bullshit (pun intended), | believable..... they recieved a subsequent grant of $250 million | to study what could be done to eleviate said effects. | | | ============================================================================ | | 82) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:15:48 pm | | glennmcc> | Their suggested action to eleciate the problem.... cow diapers. | | ============================================================================ | | 83) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:22:12 pm | | gregy> | he he...yep...that's the recent one I was referring to..... | ...still made me almost fall off my chair..... | ... | diapers???????.....he he he....they'd hafta be "air-tight diapers" and | that raises the spectical of what??? in your mind....??? (and, remember | that methane is not lighter-than-air)..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 84) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:23:25 pm | | gregy> | MY first imagery was of floating "cow-balloons"...but given heaver than | air....what????? | ... | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 85) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:25:34 pm | | gregy> | I mean...any halfway sensible person can see the ridiculous results of | their foolish "studies"....so....why can said person see that those | results MUST have arisen from hilariously faulty premises.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 86) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:26:43 pm | | gregy> | ooops..."why can said person NOT see that....etc" | | ============================================================================ | | 87) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:36:02 pm | | glennmcc> | No...no...no..... | | You misunderstand the intended use of the cow diapers. | | They would not be used to contain the cow farts themselves. | | The reasearches have yet to devise a method for containing the farts. | | The diapers would keep the cow poop contianed until 'changing time' | The 'full diaper' woukld be removed and fresh diaper applied. | The 'full diaper' culd then be disposed of in amnner in accordence with | all aplicable hazmat regulations so the we could eliminate the | possibilty of 'secondary methane contamination of the ozone layer. | due to methane escapeinf from the cow poop after evacuation from the | bovine colon. | | You can rest assured that further research grants will be given to more | studies on containing the cow farts themselves. | | After-all... | We MUST be sure to protect the (thoeretically existing), ozone layer. | | At-least until we able to either prove or disprove its existence. | | | ============================================================================ | | 88) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:41:29 pm | | gregy> | Well, now, I'm perfectly willing to accept, on the basis of the existing | physics-cal evidence that there IS ozone present in the atmosphere... | ... | As for that "ozone layer"...it's still about as proven as glob-warm... | hmmm...well...maybe a tiny bit more proven....but...the effects of it, | or its depletion....hmmmm....now THOSE are BIG disputables.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 89) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:48:49 pm | | glennmcc> | There exists just as much proof that there exists a layer of Co2 | as exists proof that there exists that layer of ozone. | | Proof of Co2 layer ....... none. | Proof of ozone layer ..... none. | | ============================================================================ | | 90) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:49:06 pm | | gregy> | So, then you're saying that diapers was only for the poop...??? | ... | Why, then, it was only designed to deal with "secondary-emission | cow-farts"....the "primary-emission cow-farts" were to be just ignored, | let loose...???? | .... | I'd kinda suggest that that was sorta a "half-brained" solution (since | you all know I'm averse to cussing and low language).... | .... | And that "primary-emission" stuff would constitute at least 75percent | (or more) of the total emission quantity (just take an old cowherder's | word for it).....and....about another half of the "secondary" would | escape between the fantail and the flush.......so....we're talking | about spending a whole bunch just to collect/contain only about 10-15 | percent of the total emissions....??? | .. | Hey...where are the anti-tobacco folks when you need them......??? | We need a total BAN...!!!! | ..... | eat veggies, eat veggies, eat veggies.....!!!!!!!! | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 91) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:50:34 pm | | gregy> | yep...reread my post...the ozone is there (measures)...the "layer" is | only hypothesized...... | | | ============================================================================ | | 92) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:53:39 pm | | gregy> | yeah...I reread your post...."layer"....just an imaginary construct.. | ... | so far, could be...hasn't been definitively deliniated, though...just | ...perhaps.... | ... | he he he...and then, these hi-falutin elitist want us to "believe and | follow"...... | ... | | ============================================================================ | | 93) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:57:03 pm | | glennmcc> | re:"about spending a whole bunch just to collect/contain only about 10-15 | percent of the total emissions....???" | | Damn... that's one hell of a good start though. | | | re:"eat veggies, eat veggies, eat veggies.....!!!!!!!!" | | But be sure their NOT baked beans. | | | ============================================================================ | | 94) Thu, Sep 01, 2005 - 11:58:56 pm | | glennmcc> | Damn.... it's 1:00am already. | | Gotta get to bed. | | CU after work tomorrow. | | ============================================================================ | | 95) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 12:06:37 am | | gregy> | But...back to serious posting... | .. | This whole topic got started when it niggled in my brain overnight, that | New Orleans was just FINE, until the whole day AFTER the hurricane blew | through. Then I investigated and discovered (at least I thought) that | the Gulf hadn't blown over-into the city, nor had the River flooded over | into the city, nor had the rain filled the city up.....but.....but... | the LAKE had poured through two holes in the levees (dikes) and flooded | into the city. | ... | Today's further investigation had confirmed that general scenerio...but | it turns out that it was mostly one CANAL bank that had broke letting | the LAKE flood into the city (since the canal is/was directly connected | to the lake)....but...NO report mentioned any "storm-surge" or "rising | water level" in the canal, or rising flood waters, etc, etc....all they | said/say is that the canal bank leaked/broke/washed out...without said | washout being directly caused by the storm. What this means (if it | continues to be true) is that the corrupt pol-ministration of N.O. | has refused to maintain their canal banks (not levees, etc) and, to | boot, they had NO ONE walking/watching those banks and levees for leaks, | before and immediately after the storm went past.....so....the canal | band leaked (slowly, as witness that it took a whole day) until it ate | a hole in the bank, which ate more, all the while letting the LAKE flow | thru the canal bank hole into the city. | ... | Now, THAT would seem to me to require some lynching, and drawing-and- | quartering..... | | | ============================================================================ | | 96) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 12:07:06 am | | gregy> | he he he.. | .. | g'nite | ... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 97) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 1:26:58 am | | gregy> | It is now starting to be confirmed, what I said about the local dufuses | pol-minstration, being responsible for letting those NO canal dikes | leak, then wash out... | .. | Only it's worse than I imagined....each levee, get that - each levee, | is overseen/controlled by SEPARATE "boards".....no central coordination, | and no oversight. AND that is mandated as part of STATE Law...!!! | ...can't be changed without majority votes in both houses of the state | legislature... | ... | And...NO's been on notice of their almost certainly having a catastrophe | since 1965.....and the Dutch have given them notice of what they have | successfully done (since 1953) to prevent being overwhelmed by storm | surges....which didn't even happen, in this case....just leaks... | ... | I'd post the links to the just-starting national coverage/questions, | but, you can find them if you "give a rip".... | | | ============================================================================ | | 98) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 2:16:48 am | | gregy> | Glenn...here's another one...sorta a "different take".... | | OpinionJournal - Taste | http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110007197 | Fri, 02 Sep 2005 02:00:39 | _________________________________________________ | | FINE WHINE: It turns out | that the organic | compounds released in | the winemaking process | are a major contributor | to air pollution; and | now environmental | regulators are targeting | vintners in Napa and | Sonoma, Calif., who | produce 95% of regional | smog. Maybe | "progressive" | connoisseurs will think | twice before uncorking | that second bottle. | | | ============================================================================ | | 99) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 2:18:04 am | | gregy> | gee.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 100) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 2:23:50 am | | gregy> | I guess with..."vintners in Napa and Sonoma, Calif., who produce | 95% of regional smog." | That only leaves 5% left produced by "other sources" so the cow-farts | must not be too much of a kerfuffle (kerfartfle???) after all.... | | | ============================================================================ | | 101) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 4:25:33 am | | gregy> | And..replying to another group of nutzis, both left and right: | | Jonah Goldberg: Voodoo meteorology | http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/p... | Fri, 02 Sep 2005 04:24:17 | ____________________________________________________________________________ | | September 2, 2005 | | Just days after the Asian tsunami on December 26, 2004, a dozen or so | writers raised the subject of theodicy. Within weeks, scores of writers | broached the subject. Theodicy, if you didn't know, is the branch of | theology which tries to explain how a good God can allow evil to persist. | | So far, according to a search of Lexis-Nexis, I'm the first to bring it up | in the aftermath of the Katrina disaster. I'm pretty sure I won't be the | last, and I'm positive I'll be among the least authoritative. | | Indeed, I have no idea how to answer the question of how God can allow | evil to exist, except to say that God's ways are mysterious; a world | without evil wouldn't be the world; free will matters; and so on. It may | be boilerplate, but it works for me and I really haven't read anybody who | does much better. | | But what I find fascinating is how so many people desperately want the | culprit to be someone - or something - other than God or "Mother Nature." | | A slew of partisans have already declared that George W. Bush is | responsible for this disaster because of his policies on global warming | and the Kyoto Treaty. Cindy Sheehan, with the sort of desperation that | comes at the end of 15 minutes of fame, declared Bush was "heading to | Louisiana to see the devastation that his environmental policies and his | killing policies have caused." | | Robert F. Kennedy Jr. blamed Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour for the | devastation. "Now we are all learning what it's like to reap the whirlwind | of fossil fuel dependence which Barbour and his cronies have encouraged," | he said. | | Even the environment minister of Germany joined the chorus of those who | believe the "butterfly effect" of Bush's signature on the Kyoto treaty | would have stopped Katrina. | | On one level, I think all of this is partisan opportunism. Even a casual | glimpse at the data provided by the National Weather Service ( | http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml) shows that big hurricanes | (categories 3, 4, and 5) haven't increased over the 20th century. But for | years now, activists have exploited media coverage in order to make it | seem like something scary is driving the rise in hurricanes. "Global | warming = Worse hurricanes. George Bush just doesn't get it," blared a | billboard in Florida during the run-up to the 2004 presidential election. | | A great many people tried to pin the 2004 tsunami on global warming, too, | even though that wasn't even theoretically possible (it was caused by a | deep-sea earthquake). Tony Juniper, director of Friends of the Earth in | Britain, spoke for many when he proclaimed, "Here again are yet more | events in the real world that are consistent with climate change | predictions." | | But I also think there's something much deeper going on. It cannot be | disputed that not just the activists but millions of normal people | honestly believe these self-fulfilling prophecies that explain virtually | every kind of weather - except nice weather, of course - as the | comeuppance of man. And the key word there is "prophecy." | | It's become something of a cliche to say that environmentalism has become | a religion, but that's because there's something so obviously true about | it. The cant, the ritual, the creation myths all feel more religious than | scientific. Within the environmentalist worldview there's "an initial | Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there's a fall | from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree | of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day | coming for us all," observed Michael Crichton in a famous speech on the | subject. | | Secular, "scientific" liberals understandably titter at televangelists who | pray away hurricanes or claim that this or that calamity is God's | retribution. But as unpersuasive or unhelpful as much of that theater may | be, there's at least a serious theology somewhere underneath all the | posing. Save for the cults of "deep ecology" and Wicca, environmental | theology seems slapdash. | | They could start by getting their own theodicy, one that would try to | reconcile natural disasters with their faith that Mother Nature is such a | nice lady. Rejecting Tennyson's description of nature as "red in tooth and | claw," they opt for a nurturing but wounded mommy nature. Were it not for | man's folly, she would be rocking us to sleep in her gentle arms every | night. God, it seems, is a deadbeat dad in this whole scheme, and man | ultimately has all the power. Indeed, George Bush (with the aid of Haley | Barbour, of course) could eliminate catastrophes with the stroke of a pen. | | Those who study theodicy spend a lot of time on the Book of Job, which | tackles God's willingness to allow bad things to happen to people who | don't have it coming. Despite his hardships, Job never abandons God | because to do so would be to abandon hope. | | Environmentalists, it seems, need their own Book of Job. Because, as it | stands right now, Mother Nature's ways are not mysterious, but entirely | contingent on the output of fossil fuels. And, ironically enough, all of | their hopes lie in George W. Bush. Which sounds just a bit like their | version of Satan worship. | | Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online. | | ©2005 Tribune Media Services | | | ============================================================================ | | 102) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 4:29:19 am | | gregy> | Jonah says it with shear elegance (note - elegance, not eloquence). | | | | ============================================================================ | | 103) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 9:14:54 am | | gregy> | More from The Corner: | | The Corner on National Review Online | http://corner.nationalreview.com/ | Fri, 02 Sep 2005 09:12:17 | ___________________________________________________________ | | Friday, September 02, 2005 | | DOES ANYONE DOUBT [Jonah Goldberg ] | | | That if 1,2,3... a dozen looters had been | shot the first day New Orleans would be a | better place today? (And again, I'm talking | about the actual thieves not the people | trying to survive). One thing that confuses | the objections to the "shoot on sight" | policy is that it sounds like looters will | be getting shot day after day after day. | | You don't have to shoot on sight very long | before would-be looters realize "hey, I | might get shot on sight." We've now heard | of multiple outrages as a result of people | being stranded in places -- particularly | Charity Hospital -- simply because rescue | workers couldn't risk getting killed. | | Rudy Giuliani's New York proved that James | Q. Wilson's and George L. Kellings' "broken | windows" theory was correct. People take | cues from small instances of disorder and | chaos and commit even worse acts of | disorder and chaos. Clearly it works when | the initial lawlessness isn't small. When | criminals see that looting is permitted, | they -- rationally -- conclude that | everything is permitted. There have been | rapes and beatings in the Superdome because | that interpretation has become widespread. | | How many people died because of the | lawlessness that was allowed to fester | while the Governor talked about "bad | apples" and her grave disappointment? How | many resources might have been spared if a | firm rule had been set at once? How many | more cops and guardsmen are necessary to | maintain order than would have been | necessary if a zero-tolerance policy had | been taken from the outset? | | When I hear that Rhodes woman from Air | America is encouraging looting, all I can | think is that she's letting some radical | chic nonsense take precedence over the need | to save peoples' lives. | | Posted at 11:05 AM | | | MORE NO BACKGROUND [Rich Lowry ] | I asked my Louisiana professor guy who | wrote in yesterday two questions: 1) why | seemingly so little preparation in NO?; 2) | what to make of the mayor down there? | Here's what he wrote back: | | 1) I think no one in the area ever | thought that a storm of this magnitude | would ever really strike New Orleans. A | friend of mine at Tulane usually rode | these storms out by opening his front | door and sipping bourbon while watching | the waves of rain pass. Fortunately he | did not stay this time. The problem with | planning is the same as the problem with | flood control that I wrote to you about | yesterday. There are simply too many | competing agencies asking for the same | dollars and jealously guarding their | political turf. More importantly, no one | anticipated the complete social breakdown | that has occurred among those who refused | or were unable to evacuate. The breakdown | appears to be the culmination of decades | of weak, at best, law enforcement with | Orleans Parish that looked the other way | at a lot of the crime that occurred in | areas like the Ninth Ward, because the | officers themselves were scared to go | into many of the housing projects. Also, | until within the last ten years the state | police were not allowed by the city | government to operate within the parish | (the city's boundary is contiguous with | the parish boundary). Some of this goes | back to when Huey Long amended the state | constitution to take control of the city | from the elected city government; most, | unfortunately, is the result of much more | recent corruption (witness the recent | indictments of many close aides, | including family members, of the | administration of former mayor Marc | Morial). There were rumors flooding the | state yesterday (Thursday) that the | unrest and looting had spread to Baton | Rouge and Lafayette, where many of the | refugees who fled prior to the storm were | located. I even received a forwarded | email written by a Rapides Parish | Sheriff's deputy (the parish I live in) | that warned about the flood of refugees | heading our way from the Ninth Ward and | to be prepared for anything. The rumors | were false, and the Sheriff has said to | disregard the email; it was unofficial | and the sender will be dealt with when | the Sheriff returns (he spent the day in | New Orleans observing the deputies he | sent to aid in rescue efforts. | | 2) People outside of New Orleans had high | hopes when Nagin was elected. He was not | a part of the competing political | machines in the city. His background was | as an executive in a cable company. He | has done a good job at ferreting out | corruption and trying to change the | system, but he had not been able to | really change the culture of the police | force. When he took office the New | Orleans Police Department had only just | quit accepting convicted felons as | officers. Unfortunately, he appears to | have been overwhelmed by the force of | events and the complete loss of the | city's infrastructure. After 9/11 New | York City, outside of Lower Manhattan, | still had all of the basic city services; | New Orleans as of Monday afternoon | essentially had none, and neither he nor | the governor exhibit the leadership | needed. I was never a fan of the former | governor Mike Foster, never voted for | him, but I want him back. He would have | taken his own boat to New Orleans and | personally arrested the looters on | Monday, shooting those that ignored him. | That may sound callous, but it is what is | needed. Governor Blanco this morning | finally realized that, declaring war on | the looters. That should have been done | Monday afternoon. | | Sorry this is so long, but in Louisiana | there are no quick easy answers, due to | the nature of politics here. I hope this | was helpful. | | | Posted at 10:47 AM | | | | ============================================================================ | | 104) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 10:33:54 am | | gregy> | More: | | Intricate Flood Protection Long | a Focus of Dispute - New York | http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/national/nationa | Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:33:13 | ___________________________________________________ | | ================================================================= | September 1, 2005 | | Intricate Flood Protection Long a Focus of Dispute | | By ANDREW C. REVKIN and CHRISTOPHER DREW | | The 17th Street levee that gave way and led to the flooding of New Orleans | was part of an intricate, aging system of barriers and pumps that was so | chronically underfinanced that senior regional officials of the Army Corps | of Engineers complained about it publicly for years. | | Often leading the chorus was Alfred C. Naomi, a senior project manager for | the corps and a 30-year veteran of efforts to waterproof a city built on | slowly sinking mud, surrounded by water and periodically a target of great | storms. | | Mr. Naomi grew particularly frustrated this year as the Gulf Coast braced | for what forecasters said would be an intense hurricane season and a | nearly simultaneous $71 million cut was announced in the New Orleans | district budget to guard against such storms. | | He called the cut drastic in an article in New Orleans CityBusiness. | | In an interview last night, Mr. Naomi said the cuts had made it impossible | to complete contracts for vital upgrades that were part of the long-term | plan to renovate the system. | | This week, amid news of the widening breach in the 17th Street Canal, he | realized that the decadeslong string of near misses had ended. | | "A breach under these conditions was ultimately not surprising," he said | last night. "I had hoped that we had overdesigned it to a point that it | would not fail. But you can overdesign only so much, and then a failure | has to come." | | No one expected that weak spot to be on a canal that, if anything, had | received more attention and shoring up than many other spots in the | region. It did not have broad berms, but it did have strong concrete | walls. | | Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental | Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that was particularly | surprising because the break was "along a section that was just upgraded." | | "It did not have an earthen levee," Dr. Penland said. "It had a vertical | concrete wall several feel thick." | | Now the corps is scrambling. After failing to close a 300-foot break in | the canal through which most of the floodwater entered the city, federal | engineers decided last night to take the battle with Lake Pontchartrain to | the lakefront. | | Starting today, they will prepare to drive corrugated vertical steel | plates, called sheet pile, into the mud near where the narrow canal meets | the lake, sealing it off so that the big breach farther in can be more | methodically attacked, Mr. Naomi said. | | The decision was made after a day of fruitless efforts to figure how to | drop concrete highway barriers or huge sandbags into the torrent. For the | most part, the water between the lake and the filled bowl of the city | leveled off as of last night, officials said. | | Weaknesses in the levee system were foreshadowed in a report in May on the | hurricane protection plan for the region and the budget gap. | | The district headquarters said, "The current funding shortfalls in fiscal | year 2005 and fiscal year 2006 will prevent the Corps from addressing | these pressing needs." | | They also meant that there was far too little money to study thoroughly an | upgrade of the protections from the existing standard, enough to hold back | a hurricane at Category 3 on the five-step intensity scale, to a level to | withstand floods and winds from a Category 5 storm. | | Hurricane Katrina was on the high end of Category 4 and, despite the | extreme flooding, is still seen by many hurricane experts as a near miss | for New Orleans. | | Since 2001, the Louisiana Congressional delegation had pushed for far more | money for storm protection than the Bush administration has accepted. Now, | Mr. Naomi said, all the quibbling over the storm budget, or even over full | Category 5 protection, which would cost several billion dollars, seemed | tragically absurd. | | "It would take $2.5 billion to build a Category 5 protection system, and | we're talking about tens of billions in losses, all that lost | productivity, and so many lost lives and injuries and personal trauma | you'll never get over," Mr. Naomi said. "People will be scarred for life | by this event." | | He said there were still no clear hints why the main breach in the flood | barriers occurred along the 17th Street Canal, normally a conduit for vast | streams of water pumped out of the perpetually waterlogged city each day | and which did not take the main force of the waves roiling the lake. He | said that a low spot marked on survey charts of the levees near the spot | that ruptured was unrelated and that the depression was where a new bridge | crossed the narrow canal near the lakefront. | | Some experts studying flood prevention with the corps and other agencies | speculated that any dip in the retaining levee or walls there might have | allowed water to slop over and start the collapse. | | Mr. Naomi said that as the power of the hurricane grew clear over the | weekend, he and others who had worked to make the system as strong as it | could be, given the design limits, could only hope that it would hold. | | But, he said, he knew that the chances were high that the rising waters | and crashing waves would find a fatal weak spot in the 350 miles of levees | and walls. | | As often occurs after a storm, Lake Pontchartrain is sloshing back and | forth, sending pulses of water into the city and potentially complicating | repairs, Dr. Penland said. | | "It's like you have a bowl of water and you shake it, and it sloshes back | and forth," he said, describing a phenomenon that geologists call a seiche | (pronounced sesh). "Mississippi Sound and Pontchartrain are real prone to | seiches when big storms come through. We are seeing the slosh. Water is | being flushed through the gaps in the levees." | | He said scientists at the United States Geological Survey estimated that | the sloshing would gradually diminish in a few days. | | Until then, the city will be subject not just to normal variation in the | lake, where water levels change about a foot between high and low tide, | but also to the variations of the seiche. "You have not just the one-foot | tide, you probably have three to four feet of water," Dr. Penland said. | "Once we get to an ordinary tidal regime, when it plays out, that will be | our opportunity to close those breaks in the levees and start pumping." | | Andrew C. Revkin reported from New York for this article and Christopher | Drew from Baton Rouge, La. Cornelia Dean contributed reporting from New | York. | | | Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company | | | ============================================================================ | | 105) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 10:45:53 am | | gregy> | And more: | | http://www.techcentralstation.com/090205A.html | http://www.techcentralstation.com/090205F.html | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 106) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 11:03:04 am | | gregy> | And more: | | http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/national/index.ssf?/base/national-50/112 | http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4785 | | ============================================================================ | | 107) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 9:49:26 pm | URL | | gregy> | Wonderful, complete roundup on "Buses".....:(((( | | http://junkyardblog.net/archives/week_2005_08_28.html#004749 | | | ============================================================================ | | 108) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 9:56:26 pm | | ray> | Hmmmm, and 'idictment' if ever there was one. Sound like criminal | incompetence to me :( | | | Must be those commie-liberals, it's well known how the left are always | trying to cut spending on public works so as to give tax breaks to | the wealthy, and at the same time preaching about how 'market forces' | will solve any problem that could possibly come up. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 109) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 10:38:40 pm | | gregy> | This is a news report about the "Mandatory Evac Order" given on Sunday. | ...NOTE - how Blanco says BUSH...yes, that's right, THAT JERK was the | one who called HER and pled for them to issue a Mandatory Evac Order... | | Nola.com: NewsFlash - Mandatory evacuation | ordered for New Orl | http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf? | Fri, 02 Sep 2005 22:26:33 | __________________________________________________ | | 8/28/2005, 10:48 a.m. CT | | The Associated Press | | | | NEW ORLEANS (AP) — In the face of a | catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a | mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday | for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin. | | Acknowledging that large numbers of | people, many of them stranded tourists, | would be unable to leave, the city set | up 10 places of last resort for people | to go, including the Superdome. | | The mayor called the order | unprecedented and said anyone who could | leave the city should. He exempted | hotels from the evacuation order | because airlines had already cancelled | all flights. | | Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside | the mayor at a news conference, said | President Bush called and personally | appealed for a mandatory evacuation for | the low-lying city, which is prone to | flooding. | | "There doesn't seem to be any relief in | sight," Blanco said. | | She said Interstate 10, which was | converted Saturday so that all lanes | headed one-way out of town, was total | gridlock. | | "We are facing a storm that most of us | have long feared," Nagin said. | | The storm surge most likely could | topple the city's levee system, which | protect it from surrounding waters of | Lake Pontchartrain, the Mississippi | River and marshes, the mayor said. The | bowl-shaped city must pump water out | during normal times, and the hurricane Š threatened pump power. | | Previous hurricanes evacuations in New | Orleans were always voluntary, because | so many people don't have the means of | getting out. Some are too poor and | there is always a French Quarter full | of tourists who get caught. | | "This is a once in a lifetime event," | the mayor said. "The city of New | Orleans has never seen a hurricane of | this magnitude hit it directly," the | mayor said. | | He told those who had to move to the | Superdome to come with enough food for | several days and with blankets. He said | it will be a very uncomfortable place | and encouraged everybody who could to | get out. | Nagin said police and firefighters | would spread out throughout the city | sounding sirens and using bullhorns to | tell residents to get out. He also said | police would have the authority to | comandeer any vehicle or building that | could be used for evacuation or shelter. | | The Superdome was already taking in | people with special problems. It opened | about 8 a.m. and people on walkers, | some with oxygen tanks, began checking | in. | | In a neighborhood in central city, a | group of residents sat on a porch. It | was almost a party atmosphere. | | "We're not evacuating," said Julie | Paul, 57. "None of us have any place to | go. We're counting on the Superdome. | That's our lifesaver." | | She said they'd spent the last couple | of hurricanes there. They would wait | for a friend who has a van to take | them, because none has cars. | | At a nearby gas station, Linda Young, | 37, was tanking up her car. | | "I'm really scared. I've been through | hurricanes, but this one scares me. I | think everybody needs to get out," sheŠ said. | | She said they planned to leave Saturday | but couldn't get gas, and didn't want | to go without it, so got up early and | got in a gas line. | | In the suburbs, evacuations were under | way. | | "That sun is shining too bright for | this to be happening," said Joyce | Tillis, manager of the Holiday Inn | Select at the airport in the suburbs as | she called the more than 140 guests to | tell them the hotel was under a | mandatory evacuation. "It's too nice a | day." | | Tillis lives inside the flood zone in | the community of Avondale. She said she | called her three daughters and told | them to get out. "If I'm stuck, I'm | stuck," Tillis said. "I'd rather save | my second generation if I can." | | | | ============================================================================ | | 110) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 10:43:35 pm | | gregy> | No, no, no.!!! It's ALL bush's/roves/religiousrightfanatics/bigbusiness | and those scumbags....they're to blame... | ... | Oh, and the usual suspects and ham actors, Michael Moore and, now, Jesse | Jackson are blaming it on bush's "racism" and "anti-poor" bias... | ... | BTW....both the N.O. Mayor AND his police chief are both black, AND his | director of emergency management.. | ... | ...this makes my head weary...just read all the links and posts... | ... | It ain't a pretty pitcher...not on the ground,...I mean, in the | rerporting of this, and the proggy-lib spin(s) that are being tried.. | | | ============================================================================ | | 111) Fri, Sep 02, 2005 - 11:03:24 pm | | gregy> | Oh, and just in case you think this is anti-black screed.. the so-called | N.O. leadership (mostly black) don't hold a candle to 20 year old Jabbar | Gibbson ...just go...google the name...you'll find a "true American | Leader" there.....must be he's white, right....??? Cause we're all | racists and don't think blacks can do anything right....???? | .. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 112) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 12:18:36 am | URL | | gregy> | Re: glob-warm... | ... | now it's peat..... | CORRECTION: the correct spelling is: | | Jabbor Gibson | | (in Post 111) | | | ============================================================================ | | 114) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 12:50:02 am | | gregu> | hmmmm...can't turn up any google hits for either spelling... | ..so: | | Taking refuge in the Astrodome - NEWSCHANNEL 5 | http://www.newschannel5.tv/2005/9/1/4255/Taking-re | Sat, 03 Sep 2005 00:49:21 | ___________________________________________________ | | Harlingen-Weslaco-McAllen-Brownsville, Texas | | 81° and Few Clouds | | NEWSCHANNEL 5 Investigations | | Taking refuge in the Astrodome | | Thursday, September 01, 2005 Updated: 11:32 AM | | HOUSTON -- NEWSCHANNEL 5 crews were in Houston as some desperate refugees | arrived in a stolen bus. | | HOUSTON -- Thousands of refugees of Hurricane Katrina were transported to | the Astrodome in Houston this week. In an extreme act of looting, one | group actually stole a bus to escape ravaged areas in Louisiana. | | About 100 people packed into the stolen bus. They were the first to enter | the Houston Astrodome, but they weren't exactly welcomed. | | The big yellow school bus wasn't expected or approved to pass through the | stadium's gates. Randy Nathan, who was on the bus, said they were | desperate to get out of town. | | "If it werent for him right there," he said, "we'd still be in New Orleans | underwater. He got the bus for us." | | Eighteen-year-old Jabbor Gibson jumped aboard the bus as it sat abandoned | on a street in New Orleans and took control. | | "I just took the bus and drove all the way here...seven hours straight,' | Gibson admitted. "I hadn't ever drove a bus." | | The teen packed it full of complete strangers and drove to Houston. He | beat thousands of evacuees slated to arrive there. | | "I t's better than being in New Orleans," said fellow passenger Albert | McClaud, "we want to be somewhere where we're safe." | | During a long and impatient delay, children popped their heads out of bus | windows and mothers clutched their babies. | | One 8-day-old infant spent the first days of his life surrounded by chaos. | He's one of the many who are homeless and hungry. | | Authorities eventually allowed the renegade passengers inside the dome. | But the 18-year-old who ensured their safety could find himself in a world | of trouble for stealing the school bus. | | "I dont care if I get blamed for it ," Gibson said, "as long as I saved my | people." | | Sixty legally chartered buses were expected to arrive in Houston | throughout the night. Thousands of people will be calling the Astrodome | "home," at least for now. | | | | | Copyright 2005 Mobile Video Tapes, Incorporated. All rights reserved. This | material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 115) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 12:50:53 am | | gregu> | now that's a "Real American Leader"....(from Louisiana, no less)... | .... | | | ============================================================================ | | 116) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 10:17:19 am | | ray> | Hell of a guy! | | ... So you aren't a Bush-baby then? | | ============================================================================ | | 117) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 2:55:23 pm | URL | | glennmcc> | | SCHOOL BUS TO SAFETY | | | modern day noah | | Jay Smooth passed this on: the first bus to reach the Astrodome from New | Orleans wasn't from the Superdome. It was a school bus that 20 year old | drove up from N.O., picking up refugees and stragglers along the way after | police in N.O. gave him the keys and told him to drive: | HOUSTON -- A bus of refugees left homeless and helpless by Hurricane | Katrina arrived at the Astrodome, but they were not the evacuees who | originally took shelter at the Superdome, Local 2 reported Thursday. | | State and county officials said the Astrodome would only accept refugees | from the Louisiana Superdome, but the first bus that arrived at the | Astrodome Thursday night was actually stolen. The driver of the school bus | claimed to be from the Superdome, but after authorities questioned the | 20-year-old driver, they learned the bus was actually stolen. | | "The police told me I could have the bus. I told them I had a license," | Jabar Gibson told Local 2. | | Gibson said the Orleans Parish school bus was parked at the Superdome and | that he picked up refugees stranded on the highway. | | "We had walked on the interstate for two hours. (Officials) were passing us | up. They weren't even worrying about us. They were just worrying about the | people in the Superdome," evacuee Makivia Horton told Local 2. | | Authorities let the refugees on the bus stay while other evacuees already | in Houston have been turned away because they were not from the Superdome. | | Local 2 reported that 20 of 475 buses scheduled to arrive at the Astrodome | had arrived by 6:30 a.m. Thursday. | | About 20,000 refugees from the Superdome are expected to arrive at | Houston's Astrodome over the next couple of days. | | An American Red Cross volunteer said they have ordered 45,000 cots and | blankets to be delivered to the Astrodome. | | Harris County Judge Robert Eckels said the Astrodome could temporarily | house the refugees but said the facility could not act as a permanent home. | The arena's schedule has been cleared through December. | | I heard earlier though at the Astrodome is now turning away people since | they've reached their max. At least those there have basics like water, | toilets, showers, food, air conditioning and electricity, none of which was | at the Superdome. | | --Oliver | | Permalink | | | | Thursday, September 01, 2005 | | | _______ | | | So.... which of the two stories is actually a statement of the truth ? | | The one you found ? | | The one I found ? | | Both ? | | Niether ? | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 118) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 2:56:15 pm | | glennmcc> | Did it actually happen at-all ? | | Or are both stories pure fiction ? | | ============================================================================ | | 119) Sat, Sep 03, 2005 - 7:54:19 pm | | ray> | I read in the paper today that the Corps had been begging the | Feds on bended knee for money to improve the N.0. levees. Gregy, | seems to me like you're being too hard on those guys. | | And, I also read today that, contrary to popular opinion, the | magnitude of huricanes is not getting worse, at least decade by | decade -- OK I'm convinced. | | | ============================================================================ | | 120) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:06:45 am | | gregy> | Ray...bush-baby...??? explain... | .. | Re: The Corp....they're ALWAYS beggin....and they always get turned | down....because they're always alarmists/porkbarrelers...everyone knows | if you wanna get some major pork for your district/state, just run it | past those Corp boys....they'll back ANYYYYYYTHING.... | ... | Now, go read my post(s)....one of the engineers for the levees said, | "I'm surprised it broke there. That section isn't a dirt dike, it | is concrete with straight concrete walls.".. | .. | And, others of my post have quoted numerous involved, etc...saying that | it wasn't any surge that "slopped over"...it was a BREACH...the thing | broke....and it didn't "catastrophically fail" in an instant...it | started to leak, then leaked some more, then more, then breached...it | did NOT happen until AFTER the storm was already well past..(just the | trailing-edge rain squalls)...so... | ..hey...maybe I'm all wrong....just lead me to the guy who was in charge | of, supervised and documented, the levee-walkers, before, during, and | especially right after the storm.....he can SET ME STRAIGHT.... | ... | Oh, and 'splain to me where were all the school buses (perhaps those in | the pictures were "extras")...and, in addition, 'splain to me where | were all the 360+ city-owned buses...perhaps they weren't parked in an | "underwater parking garage" like those school buses. | .. | And, 'splain to me why BUSH was the one (in Blanco's own words) who had | to call the LouisianaLosers on Sunday to ask (beg???) them to order the | manditory evacuation of New Orleans... | .. | And, 'splain to me why 15,000+ refugees were stashed in the Convention | Center and FEMA wasn't told they were there, until Friday.... | And, and, and....whole lotta 'splainin needs to be done...there's lots | more I could bring up... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 121) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:11:03 am | | gregy> | Ray, magnitude..increasing..?? I posted the Nat. Wea.Service chart | showing that....but...hey...go read it on the rest of the web, as you | did...it's all over the place... | ... | So, I ask you....given that YOU found it so easily, and I posted it, | and tens (if not hundreds/thousands) of others have promonently posted | it.... | 'splain to me how come the MainLeftStreamMedia is still humping that | rubber-dolly...??? Huh..?? And 'splain to me how come they think they | can continue to get away with this kinda propaganda...??? | .. | I'll 'splain to you...they're STUPID!!!!!...and they think they can get | away with this, 'cause they think I'M as stupid as they are...!!! | | | ============================================================================ | | 122) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:17:27 am | | gregy> | Oh, and Rev Jetmouth and Rev AlLooseTongue are hammering about "racism | against the poor, yada, yada, yada."... | ..okay... | 'splain to me how come a majorly BLACK New Orleans administration, with | a BLACK Mayor and BLACK CopChief and BLACK EmergManagementHead, "splain | to me how they order the evac, then go stash those "poor and black" in | the Superdome (known) and ConventionCenter (unknown) instead of using | THOSE BUSES to start hauling them "poor black" folks out, too...??? | I mean, if the upperclasses were ordered to flee, why didn't those | pol-ministrators order the lowerclasses to leave, AND PROVIDE THEM | TRANSPORTATION.....???? | | | ============================================================================ | | 123) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:24:03 am | | gregy> | And, I restate sumpin that all the looney-left bush-bashers keep from | recaling/remembering (if they even knew enough to know it, originally). | ... | The US Federal Government is NOT responsible for what the locals do... | furthermore, the Feds are NOT allowed to interfer unless the locals are | dead, incapacited, or totally incompetent...it is AGAINST THE LAW for | the Feds to come down to local level and act, without a request from | the locals. | ITEM - Plenty of other States had National Guardsmen "ready to go" and | never received any request for them, UNTIL THURSDAY AFTERNOO..... | FACT - The Texas National Guard had ready 800+ Guardsmen, and can't send | them until Sunday (tomorrow)...WHY...??? You just don't dispatch your | personnel into some area, without the locals of that area being ready | to receive/coordinate them....anything else just gets lots more idiots | in the area, all chasing their own tails, and getting in each others | ways... | | | | ============================================================================ | | 124) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:28:08 am | | gregy> | ITEM(I don't state it as a FACT, since I'm beginning to doubt the | truthfulness/sanity of the LA pols), ITEM - according to LA pols' | statements, they had 5800 Guardsmen already activated to deal with the | emergency, and another 2200 availble to be activated within 72 hours. | ... | hmmmm...how come Blanco, et al, never used those troops...?? Or did | they lie about having them...??? | FACT - their StrengthRosters show they should have had about 8000 | troops available....where were they...??? | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 125) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:29:59 am | | gregy> | Glenn...stories true...??? Hey, your guess is as good as any... | ... | With the sorry misinformation-operation the MLSM has been running on | this business, I'm not believing ANYTHING (pro or con) that they say. | ... | | | ============================================================================ | | 126) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:32:59 am | | gregy> | One thing I gotta say for Bush...he's NOT a recriminator...he's an | encourager....he met with that weepy/whiney N.O. Mayor, and the mayor | comes away comforted and encouraged.... | ... | Guess we need someone like him leading.....BOY...???? if it'd been ME | ...!!!!...I'm afraid that mayor wouldn't needed emergency surgery to | have his foot removed from his mouth, after they finished extracting | his head from outa his rectum.....!!!!! | | | | ============================================================================ | | 127) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 1:53:49 am | URL | | gregy> | Get this one...it's sourced from AP | | http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/3/152800.shtml | | | ============================================================================ | | 128) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 2:54:18 am | URL | | gregy> | The mayor....errmmmmm....I'll let it speak for itself... | | http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46134 | | | ============================================================================ | | 129) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:23:26 am | | gregy> | The Intellectual Activist | http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?i | Sun, 04 Sep 2005 03:04:02 | ______________________________________________ | | î Unnaturaì Disasterº Á Hurricanå Exposeó thå | an-Made Disaster of the Welfare State | | y Robert Tracinski | ep 02, 2005 | ---------------------------------------------- | | by Robert Tracinski | | It has taken four long days for state and | federal officials to figure out how to deal | with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't | blame them, because it has also taken me | four long days to figure out what is going | on there. The reason is that the events | there make no sense if you think that we are | confronting a natural disaster. | | If this is just a natural disaster, the | response for public officials is obvious: | you bring in food, water, and doctors; you | send transportation to evacuate refugees to | temporary shelters; you send engineers to | stop the flooding and rebuild the city's | infrastructure. For journalists, natural | disasters also have a familiar pattern: the | heroism of ordinary people pulling together | to survive; the hard work and dedication of | doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the | steps being taken to clean up and rebuild. | | Public officials did not expect that the | first thing they would have to do is to send | thousands of armed troops in armored | vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy | insurgency. And journalists--myself | included--did not expect that the story | would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, | but about rape, murder, and looting. | | But this is not a natural disaster. It is a | man-made disaster. | | The man-made disaster is not an inadequate | or incompetent response by federal relief | agencies, and it was not directly caused by | Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about | every newspaper and television channel has | gotten the story wrong. | | The man-made disaster we are now witnessing | in New Orleans did not happen over the past | four days. It happened over the past four | decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it | to public view. | | The man-made disaster is the welfare state. | | | | ============================================================================ | | 130) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:23:54 am | | gregy> | For the past few days, I have found the news | from New Orleans to be confusing. People | were not behaving as you would expect them | to behave in an emergency--indeed, they were | not behaving as they have behaved in other | emergencies. That is what has shocked so | many people: they have been saying that this | is not what we expect from America. In fact, | it is not even what we expect from a Third | World country. | | When confronted with a disaster, people | usually rise to the occasion. They work | together to rescue people in danger, and | they spontaneously organize to keep order | and solve problems. This is especially true | in America. We are an enterprising people, | used to relying on our own initiative rather | than waiting around for the government to | take care of us. I have seen this a hundred | times, in small examples (a small town whose | main traffic light had gone out, causing | ordinary citizens to get out of their cars | and serve as impromptu traffic cops, | directing cars through the intersection) and | large ones (the spontaneous response of New | Yorkers to September 11). | | So what explains the chaos in New Orleans? | | To give you an idea of the magnitude of what | is going on, here is a description from a | Washington Times story: | | "Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights | erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; | fires are breaking out; corpses litter the | streets; and police and rescue helicopters | are repeatedly fired on. | | "The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even | as National Guardsmen poured in to restore | order and stop the looting, carjackings and | gunfire.... | | "Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco | said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Š | Guard members were inside New Orleans with | shoot-to-kill orders. | | " 'These troops are...under my orders to | restore order in the streets,' she said. | 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and | loaded. These troops know how to shoot and | kill and they are more than willing to do so | if necessary and I expect they will.' " | | The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo | that accompanies this article shows National | Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, | riding on an armored vehicle through | trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of | squalid, listless people, one of whom | appears to be yelling at them. It looks | exactly like a scene from Sadr City in | Baghdad. | | What explains bands of thugs using a natural | disaster as an excuse for an orgy of | looting, armed robbery, and rape? What | causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses | that have arrived to evacuate them, causing | the drivers to drive away, frightened for | their lives? What causes people to attack | the doctors trying to treat patients at the | Super Dome? | | Why are people responding to natural | destruction by causing further destruction? | Why are they attacking the people who are | trying to help them? | | | ============================================================================ | | 131) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:24:34 am | | gregy> | My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and | she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. | While watching the coverage last night on | Fox News Channel, she told me that she was | getting a familiar feeling. She studied | architecture at the Illinois Institute of | Chicago, which is located in the South Side | of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert | Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise | public housing projects in America. "The | projects," as they were known, were infamous | for uncontrollable crime and irremediable | squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been | demolished.) | | What Sherri was getting from last night's | television coverage was a whiff of the sense | of life of "the projects." Then the | "crawl"--the informational phrases flashed | at the bottom of the screen on most news | channels--gave some vital statistics to | confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of | New Orleans had already evacuated before the | hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who | remained, a large number were from the | city's public housing projects. Jack | Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial | fact: early reports from CNN and Fox | indicated that the city had no plan for | evacuating all of the prisoners in the | city's jails--so they just let many of them | loose. There is no doubt a significant | overlap between these two populations--that | is, a large number of people in the jails | used to live in the housing projects, and | vice versa. | | There were many decent, innocent people | trapped in New Orleans when the deluge | hit--but they were trapped alongside large | numbers of people from two groups: | criminals--and wards of the welfare state, | people selected, over decades, for their | lack of initiative and self-induced | helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass | of sheep--on whom the incompetent | administration of New Orleans unleashed a | pack of wolves. | | All of this is related, incidentally, to the | apparent incompetence of the city | government, which failed to plan for a total | evacuation of the city, despite the | knowledge that this might be necessary. But | in a city corrupted by the welfare state, | the job of city officials is to ensure the | flow of handouts to welfare recipients and | patronage to political supporters--not to | ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case | of emergency. | | ============================================================================ | | 132) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:25:02 am | | gregy> | No one has really reported this story, as | far as I can tell. In fact, some are already | actively distorting it, blaming President | Bush, for example, for failing to personally | ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had | drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The | worst example is an execrable piece from the | Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious | Canadian who blames the chaos on American | "individualism." But the truth is precisely | the opposite: the chaos was caused by a | system that was the exact opposite of | individualism. | | What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the | psychological consequences of the welfare | state. What we consider "normal" behavior in | an emergency is behavior that is normal for | people who have values and take the | responsibility to pursue and protect them. | People with values respond to a disaster by | fighting against it and doing whatever it | takes to overcome the difficulties they | face. They don't sit around and complain | that the government hasn't taken care of | them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster | as an opportunity to prey on their fellow | men. | | But what about criminals and welfare | parasites? Do they worry about saving their | houses and property? They don't, because | they don't own anything. Do they worry about | what is going to happen to their businesses | or how they are going to make a living? They | never worried about those things before. Do | they worry about crime and looting? But | living off of stolen wealth is a way of life | for them. | | The welfare state--and the brutish, | uncivilized mentality it sustains and | encourages--is the man-made disaster that | explains the moral ugliness that has swamped | New Orleans. And that is the story that no | one is reporting. | | Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005 | | | | | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 133) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:34:03 am | | gregy> | Away from the coast and cameras, | victims cope without much hel... | http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/12 | Sun, 04 Sep 2005 03:28:19 | _________________________________________________ | Posted on Sat, Sep. 03, 2005 | | | | Away from the coast and cameras, victims | | cope without much help | | | | BY BRANDON BAILEY | | Knight Ridder Newspapers | | | | | | LUMBERTON, Miss. - (KRT) - It's been almost | | a week since Hurricane Katrina smashed its | | way across Louisiana, Mississippi and | | Alabama, and folks here are beginning to | | wonder whether they've been blown off the | | map. | | | | Like thousands of her rural neighbors, | | 72-year-old Gloria Jean Watts said she | | sympathizes with those suffering in the | | coastal cities. But she's hot, hungry and | | almost out of blood pressure medicine after | | a week of camping in a neighbor's | | sweltering living room and subsisting on a | | diet of little more than canned sausages. | | | | "They've completely forgotten about this | | town," said Watts, who said she hasn't seen | | any state or federal aid workers since the | | storm hit her trailer home in nearby | | Wellstown, Miss., about 70 miles north of | | Gulfport. "It's a disgrace." | | | | While they escaped the devastating floods | | that hit Biloxi, Gulfport and New Orleans, | | inland residents suffered damage to their | | homes and have spent the last several days | | without power or phones - and perilously | | short of drinkable water and gasoline. | | | | But while state and local authorities, | | including some detachments from the | | Mississippi National Guard, are | | distributing ice, water and food in larger | | towns, the residents of smaller communities | | are helping one another. | | | | "They are getting food in town, but there | | are a lot of people out in the country who | | don't have enough gas to drive in," said | | Blythe Odom, a veterinarian who was waiting | | outside a store in Poplarville, Miss., on | | Saturday morning. She spent a day and a | | half earlier this week using a chainsaw to | | clear the trees that had blocked the road | | to her home. | | | | People are queuing up for miles to buy gas | | for their cars and portable generators, but | | many gas stations are closed or open for | | only a few hours each day. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 134) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:34:40 am | | gregy> | Some rural residents have neither cars nor | | generators. Many said they're cooking | | outside on wood fires and trying to get | | into nearby towns for supplies when they | | can. But many smaller stores haven't | | reopened because supply schedules have been | | disrupted and there's no electricity to | | operate refrigerators, cash registers or | | other appliances.   | | | | Local officials said they've been told that | | it will take at least a week and maybe as | | many as six weeks to restore power in the | | more remote communities. | | | | "It's pretty rough. Everywhere you go, | | there are long lines," said Louis Sims, a | | stocky 60-year-old truck driver who'd | | driven into the small Mississippi community | | of Wiggins in search of supplies. | | | | Construction worker Iren Jones, 23, was | | spending Saturday afternoon tending a | | campfire outside his damaged trailer home | | about 10 miles east of Poplarville. He had | | enough gasoline to drive to an emergency | | depot at the country fairground, where | | local officials have been handing out bags | | of ice and donated food. | | | | Jones brought back several pounds of | | chicken, which he was planning to boil | | because he had no way to store it. "I'm not | | about to let it go to waste," he said. | | | | About 20 miles north in Lumberton, Linda | | Lee said she was "furious" that she hasn't | | seen more assistance from the outside world. | | | | There are 3,000 residents in Lumberton and | | about the same number living in the | | surrounding countryside, she said. There | | are equal numbers of blacks and whites, and | | most are very poor. About 85 percent of the | | schoolchildren qualify for subsidized | | lunches, said Lee, an administrator for the | | local school district. | | | | Earlier in the week, Lee decided to make | | use of cafeteria food supplies that were | | thawing in school freezers. She donated | | them to the local Masonic lodge, which has | | been cooking meals on charcoal grills for | | residents every day. | | | | | ============================================================================ | | 135) Sun, Sep 04, 2005 - 3:35:25 am | | gregy> | In Lumberton, folks said the hero of the | | hurricane has been Chris Holzinger, a | | 28-year-old schoolteacher who's president | | of the local Masons. The day after Katrina | | hit, he unlocked the doors of the Masonic | | lodge and offered shelter to people who | | needed it. | | | | "We've got a lot of people helping out," | | Holzinger said. He's lived most of his life | | in town, but his shaven head, goatee and | | tri